Oh Lawd, I just opened a new box of 4630 and somethin' ain't right..

[bfroberts]

As it stands at the moment, I am having to wick up 2 sizes with this wax.  Two freaking sizes, and I'm not even sure that is gonna cut it.  I'm blowing through production wax trying to get this mess tested, and I haven't managed to put a single candle on the store shelves.  And to top it all off, I will have to order more wicks, although I just ordered freaking wicks......but now I need bigger wicks.  I want to kick someone in the teeth.

I am placing an order with Candlewic tonight, and if their wax proves consistent, they'll have a customer for life.

[Jeana]

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

As it stands at the moment, I am having to wick up 2 sizes with this wax.  Two freaking sizes, and I'm not even sure that is gonna cut it.  I'm blowing through production wax trying to get this mess tested, and I haven't managed to put a single candle on the store shelves.  And to top it all off, I will have to order more wicks, although I just ordered freaking wicks......but now I need bigger wicks.  I want to kick someone in the teeth.

I am placing an order with Candlewic tonight, and if their wax proves consistent, they'll have a customer for life.

 

Ugh! Now I have to run tests, AGAIN! What wax are you getting from candlewic?

[Sarah S]

CBL 125.......

 

 

CBL 125.......

 

 

come join us...

 

😄😄😄

 

 

I just put in my order for a case, since they blend in house to their specs, it should be the same product I've always gotten (please God, lol). I also ordered a case of palm to play with, yay!!! 

[kandlekrazy]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:36 AM, bfroberts said:

 

I emailed CS and this is the gist of the response I received:

 

Thank you for contacting us! It sounds like you may have gotten slabs from a harder batch of 4630. The physical properties of the wax are tailored by refining processes, but the resulting product can vary in hardness and texture. We've have had some recent batches that were softer than usual and others that were harder. This is typical of any wax and usually does not cause significant adjustments in performance. You may find that the wicking needs to be bumped up or down, but the burn quality and fragrance performance should hold true. 

 

I have been buying this wax for several years (although not usually from CS), and while I have noticed slight variations in the past, this variation was the most significant.  I have never had to adjust my wicking before.  Apparently that lucky streak is over.

 

Sorry, but this answer just SUCKS!  Adjust wicking each batch.

[TallTayl]

@bfroberts I feel for you. I have several 6 gallon pails full of wax scraped from failed wax tests in disgust from this last year alone. It makes one hell of a fire starter. I would post photos of the hundreds upon hundreds of fails, but some may find the photos disturbing with the amount of waste generated from the horrid changed waxes. I think of all the lost revenue from using production wax and the fact that I stopped selling those types of candles until I find a safe, decent alternative and feel a bit sick to my stomach. 

 

So, when someone asks for the secret to a perfect candle so they don’t have to “waste supplies” I tend to bristle a bit. Every single fail is a big lesson that was well earned. 

[Timber]

I recently received some 4630 from Flaming that was definitely harder than the sample I ordered from them a few months ago.  6006 is softer & more sticky than this batch I received; it takes a bit of effort to cut thru this.  I just make candles for myself & still really a newbie.  One candle I've burned had a strong fuel smell (first I've had that happen), but the next seemed ok; only difference between the two was the wick.

[TallTayl]

@bfroberts would adding a bit of petrolatum help? Pretty sure 4630 contains that. The candle makers store carries it in small amounts. Candlewic has it in Bulk.

[Forrest]

Y'all are scaring the children😨

[Moonstar]

On 5/12/2018 at 9:52 AM, TallTayl said:

@pughaus soaping oils vary by lot, too, for instance. But all fall within tight specs. Lye varies from batch to batch, but again within specs . For each we are able to obtain certificates of analysis (COA) and can adjust formulas very easily. I have never seen that from wax suppliers. All we ever see is the version posted on the manufacturers’ tech specs. It includes what is important to them as far as color, average drop point, range ofmelt point, etc. I would LOVE to be able to obtain the actual analyses for wax batches. The main uses of that wax, paper cups, etc, it really does not matter how this stuff varies. 

 

As far as the performance being easy using a pan test, ohhhhhh not so. It takes several weeks to figure out something is terribly wrong with soy wax. A “passed” wick test on cases of 444 did not reveal that the wax develops full trough the candle cracks until several weeks later, after hundreds of successfully wick tested candles were already cured on the shelf. That represented loads of $$ of lost wax product, customer returns, lost wholesale accounts....

 

cavities, sink holes, etc. are all fairly new developments that the pan test did not reveal either. Had to figure out an entirely new way to blend the wax to eliminate them. Remember how disappointed you were at discovering cavities in a couple coconut candles you paid good $ for? Multiply that by thousands. In some cases the cavities are a serious safety issue, much like the sudden random 464 syneresis that resulted in pooled fragrance oil. Fire anyone? The insurance company would blame the user, or chandler, not the manufacturer where the blame truly is. We treat them as too big to fail. 

 

Theres more to the story, much more than we are being told. 

 

A similar thing happened with a lye supplier a few years ago. The lye was contaminated and hundreds of people complained. We were lied to in that each complaint was the “only one”.  They deleted complaints on social media. Users got so desperate that they started randomly adding more lye until their soap “looked right”. The problem happened right on live stream to their “expert” and they denied it.  I’m stunned that nobody was sued - that soap burned people. To this day that supplier claims nothing is wrong, but they lost a lot of global business. 

Wow ! Is it ok to ask who the lye supplier was ? 

[bfroberts]

22 hours ago, TallTayl said:

@bfroberts would adding a bit of petrolatum help? Pretty sure 4630 contains that. The candle makers store carries it in small amounts. Candlewic has it in Bulk.

Possibly, but I have an update.

 

I emailed CS again because I'm not really getting anywhere with my testing.  I was only asking for a new wick (series) suggestion, because I was out of ideas.  They responded by offering to ship out new wax and sending me a return label for my remaining wax.  I didn't ask, they just offered.  As a matter of fact, they had already sent me a shipping notification for the new wax before I had gotten their response email.

 

In my marathon testing, I had the most success with the low smoke zinc wicks (not normal zincs), but I don't have enough sizes of those to test all my containers, so that wasn't really conclusive.  Plus, I was not in the mood to have to order something else to try to make this wax work.

 

I don't want to be an alarmist.  This was nothing remotely close to the soy fiasco of last year, and I am sure I could have figured it out eventually.  The wax WAS significantly different though, and if anyone else gets any of this super hard 4630 I would love to know about it so I'll know I'm not crazy.  

[Munchauser]

So, I guess it's a good time to ask about the case of 4633 that I received today. I stopped ordering my 4633 from Aztec several months ago. Received a case from them with the lot #T1703195. It was completely different from any previous cases I had ordered. (Been using it for many years.) It was unusually opaque. Harder to cut. I tested it just out of curiosity. It made my chunk candles look totally different. It didn't burn like usual. It even cooled different than usual. I called Aztec but I never was able to speak to anyone about it. Meanwhile, I ordered a backup from Candlescience. The lot number they shipped was U1750461. It was perfect so I started ordering it from CS. (Since then I've prayed not to get any from the bad lot.)

Today I received a case of the bad lot. As soon as I saw the lot # I almost screamed! My heart sank. I called CS right away. I explained everything. He basically said to try to test it & take pictures and send to them. Told him I already tested it before and asked if I could return it if unused. He said yes but still suggested I test it. Sorry this is so long but this is such a waste of my time. Was expecting to get a lot done today.

Anyone else had any issues with this wax or any other igi waxes?

[TallTayl]

I am so sorry you’re facing this too. 

 

[bfroberts]

Wow.  I didn't expect another wax to also be a problem.  I really hate to hear that, Munchauser.
 

[Munchauser]

Thanks guys. I was planning to return it but I found someone willing to buy it from me. Now I just have to figure out where to order the next case.

[bfroberts]

I received my replacement wax from CS yesterday.  It's the 4630 I know and love.  Thank goodness. 

[Pam W]

On 5/14/2018 at 5:43 AM, Forrest said:

Y'all are scaring the children😨

LOL...................

[Laura C]

On 5/14/2018 at 8:43 AM, Forrest said:

Y'all are scaring the children😨

LMAO!!!

[Laura C]

On 5/13/2018 at 7:01 PM, Timber said:

One candle I've burned had a strong fuel smell (first I've had that happen), but the next seemed ok; only difference between the two was the wick.

For the first time, I'm currently testing IGI 6570 paracoco and several of the candles I made with it have a fuel smell too, real bad. I was shocked, I don't know what is going on. I've seen a lot of praises for this wax but I'm not really impressed right now. I need to review everything real good and see if it's related to a particular thing (scent, additive, wick). Right now it seems really hit or miss.

[katmeltswax]

On 5/14/2018 at 7:43 AM, Forrest said:

Y'all are scaring the children😨

Lol Too funny! lmao !!!

[katmeltswax]

I use & order 4630 from Aztec & Flaming . I get a different texture between  both of these waxes (4630),this has been the case for years now .The slabs from Flaming are much harder than Aztecs . I have a much harder time cutting thru the wax with Flamings 

I have nothing bad to say about  Flaming ,as I love this supplier.

I just  prefer the softer 4630 paraffin . I find Aztecs is much easier to cut & for some reason I get  better results with the softer slab .The color is slightly different as well . I have also received 4630 from C Makers & this supplier had the softest 4630,I  have ever used. The color is definitely darker ,has a deep yellow tone to it & very greasy texture.

 

I have often wandered why the waxes are all different & performance is not the same with between the different batches . All are IGI waxes . I was reading Lone Stars 4630 reviews & this was enough to scare me away from ordering & trying their 4630.

I purchased a slab of 4636 just to satisfy my curiousity .The 4636 container from LS had very good reviews .I have zero experience with the 4636 ,look forward to the results . 

I know now I am not crazy after reading this thread ,have tried 3 different 4630 waxes & none have been the same between the 3 suppliers ,kind of strange imo.This has been going on for years now .

 

It would be nice to get consistent performance from one wax kwim

Kat

 

[Jenni Wix]

I'm sceptical about the excuses when I see perfectly smooth soy and parrafin candles sold en mass at the local chain store.  I am really hesitant to try any Golden or even Ecosoya with all the drastic changes.  

 

@TallTayl and others are right. They will only be held to account by profit being affected.  Options may be limited, but accepting bad product isn't helping any of us.  If the business of the suppliers is important to the manufacturers, that is what we can affect.  

 

I hate to say it but, upping the fragrance capacity with less ability to provide throw, completely random texture, these things are not user error, this is poor manufacturing. Trying to convince people otherwise is gaslighting.  I can't stand that. 

 

You'd practically have to have a degree in chemistry, let alone the facilities, to correct the problems with, say, 444 and the Ecosoya Qs. Probably others too.  It's not practical for independent crafters.  If the business of our suppliers matters to the manufacturers, then our business should matter to our suppliers. 

 

 

[strugglebrother]

Isn't paraffin supposed to be consistent?

 

Yes the answer from CS is not okay, I'd go back for a refund on that one. 

[KrisS]

I did candles over a decade ago for sale.   I test, take a hiatus, test more, wash, rinse repeat because I'm not able to find the magic sweet spot that makes me happy with the end product.   I feel like we're stuck with product created from raw materials that didn't pass the large manufacturers' quality standards.   It explains the inconsistency.