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Has anyone use AFI?


Peggy T
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I have never bought from them directly, I did buy some on the classies here, well they came in a lot I bought.  The few bottles I had were good, I can't even remember the name but one was so good and when I went to reorder it they no longer had it so I didn't add as a supplier.   Lady I bought from here made perfumes only not candles or soap.

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I have 1 that I bought from them. It is a VBN and it is good.  Very close to WSP and a whole lot cheaper.  I've never had anything duped, but if I cannot find a replacement for Lavender Chamomile by CS I'm gonna have to see about having it duped.  I've also tested a dozen or so samples that were good.  I tried several Peak dupes when that fiasco went down, but then I got over Peak altogether and never ordered those.  
I have a dozen or so other samples waiting to be tested.  They sent out a fall sampler last year that had several BBW dupes.  Those seemed weird to me OOB so I never tested any of them.  I should probably give those a chance.  I might be missing something good.  

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30 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

I have 1 that I bought from them. It is a VBN and it is good.  Very close to WSP and a whole lot cheaper.  I've never had anything duped, but if I cannot find a replacement for Lavender Chamomile by CS I'm gonna have to see about having it duped.  I've also tested a dozen or so samples that were good.  I tried several Peak dupes when that fiasco went down, but then I got over Peak altogether and never ordered those.  
I have a dozen or so other samples waiting to be tested.  They sent out a fall sampler last year that had several BBW dupes.  Those seemed weird to me OOB so I never tested any of them.  I should probably give those a chance.  I might be missing something good.  

Thanks for the feedback. I'm having a brain moment here: what is VBN?

 

I'm going to visit their facility on Friday. I'm nerdishly excited. LOL The customer service rep I was emailing was very responsive and friendly as I was asking about several fragrances and finally said "hey come smell all the ones you want then decide on some samples". I am really crossing my fingers this pans out because I need to lower my costs and this would  be the easiest way to do so as long as the quality is good.

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Just now, Peggy T said:

Thanks for the feedback. I'm having a brain moment here: what is VBN?

 

I'm going to visit their facility on Friday. I'm nerdishly excited. LOL The customer service rep I was emailing was very responsive and friendly as I was asking about several fragrances and finally said "hey come smell all the ones you want then decide on some samples". I am really crossing my fingers this pans out because I need to lower my costs and this would  be the easiest way to do so as long as the quality is good.

 

Forgot to say, I'm going to take a few FO samples with me as reference points and to also get their 2 cents on duping.

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I didn’t know the Lavender Chamomile went away, it’s nicely strong. And sadly the CS Gardenia which I have not found a replacement for.

I got a sample of the new Gardenia Tuberose but have not tested. OOB not the same strength of creaminess of the original gardenia.

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7 hours ago, Sebleo said:

So how does it work exactly?  Could I give them a sample of the discontinued CS Gardenia and have them dupe it for me? 

I would start by sending them an email. They were really fast to reply (like minutes 😂). They only work with businesses so you'll need to send them a copy of your business license or sales tax certificate. Then You would send them a small sample of the Gardenia (like 0.5 oz). Their chemists would analyze it by breaking it down chemically to its components, then recreate it for you. They would send you a sample to smell and test and, if necessary, tweak it a bit. The woman who took me around explained how scent changes over time so a brand new fragrance that has just been compounded will smell different than one that is a year old. When you order something from a supplier you have no way of knowing if it's a week old or 6 months and that can make a difference. She explained that she always tells folks to smell the fragrance then shake it up, wait a few days and smell again. I have no idea if my untrained nose will be able to tell a difference so I guess I'll have to wait and see. 

 

The duplication itself does not have a charge but they have a 10# minimum on all orders (priced per pound). Unfortunately they can't estimate what the cost per pound will be until they determine the components of the original. If you look on their website you can probably get an idea of the overall range. Most tend to be around $16 per pound or less. Also there's a pretty decent chance that they already have a dupe for Candle Science's Gardenia. You can look for it on their website but if you don't see it, I would call and ask. I don't think they're all listed online. The lady I talked to is named Jami and she was really nice and down to earth. 

 

Peggy

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I have ordered from AFI. In fact, I am on the last drops of a very large order of Lime/Basil/Mandarin I bought over a year ago. It arrived in what can only be described as a gas can...like when you run out of gas, and have to purchase the can and fill it up and get back to your car! It took me a while just to figure out how to undo the cap!

They were very easy to deal with; quick shipping too. 

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On 6/29/2019 at 10:56 PM, Sebleo said:

So how does it work exactly?  Could I give them a sample of the discontinued CS Gardenia and have them dupe it for me? 

That's another one that Candle Science screwed me up on.

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On 6/25/2019 at 8:15 AM, TallTayl said:

@strugglebrother can you share your experiences? 

 

Sorry for late reply, our new house takes a lot of time these days and soon holidays are coming up 😎

 

Yes, I have tried a dupe with them... and I have also ordered in a few of their samples...

 

We went back and forth 5 times but they couldn't really nail it for me so I kind of gave up on the whole duplication this time and discontinued my best selling candle for now :(. They have nice customer support and great service otherwise. And good luck finding someone else who will dupe only 10 lb for you these days.

 

Their Jo Malone dupe of Pomegranate Noir is pretty close compared to the real room spray for instance.

 

They should be able to get you pretty close to your original oil but maybe not exact... Maybe in the range of 80% out of 100%. But I think it depends on the original ingredients. I would definitely give AFI a try. I'm also very fickle with things, so it might just be me.

 

A couple of years ago I did give Save on Scents a try with their duplication services, and that was a complete fiasco. They sent me something that was completely different, I was baffled with the results... It was very bad and I don't know who they put in charge of their duplication "by nose" service.

 

When I have the money I will do a dupe with the bigger fragrance houses, but they require 50 lb as a minimum these days.

 

My main problem, as many others here, was to use a Candle Science fragrance oil and then they just pull off it the shelf like that.

 

A lot of people were not happy with them discontinuing Pine Cones and other fragrances, see the reviews... 

 

https://www.candlescience.com/fragrance/pine-cones-fragrance-oil

 

At least WSP let you order in bulk of their discontinued oils, so you can still get a 10 lb keg of your old favourite oil.

 

So in 2019 I will stick to only ordering straight from the fragrance houses or WSP as I know I can keep on ordering for years to come.

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  • 3 months later...
10 hours ago, The Candle Nook said:

I am bumping this post up as I’m *thinking* of having AFI dupe CS Cranberry Marmalade. It is my best selling fragrance and CS (damn) FO changes are gonna cause me to DRINK!  Wondering if anyone else has done this dupe peocess successfully. 

They duped a fragrance for me. It took about three weeks but I was very happy with the result. They may already have a dupe of CS Cranberry Marmalade. I would give them a call. Their customer service is good. 

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There are hundreds and hundreds of codes (recipes) for each popular fragrance. If just asking for “a” cran Apple marmalade You will likely be choosing an existing blend by price, versus “the best” if you know what I mean. Prices range all over the board.

 

pretty sure I have some original peak cran Apple marm in my stash I could send to my lab to dupe if there’s enough interest. I can also ask my lab if they have an existing Equally strong and nuanced blend that is not protected under contract for another client. 
 

when duping make sure to specify the final application (soap, candles, lotion, etc) and if you want it phthalate free. This makes a difference in their formulation. If I remember correctly, the peak one had phthalates and a low-ish usage rate for skin application.  An IFRA certificate is always a good thing to have.
 

usually dupes require a hefty buy, 25 lbs being pretty standard. My lab requires this, which is why I’m pretty picky about what I send out. 

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Just wanted to add that if your fo you're trying to dup is older it may have ingredients that are no longer allowed.  Many of my old favorites from my regular suppliers have changed drastically in hot throw when I reordered in the past year (maybe it's 2 now). 

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Thanks @TallTayl and @kandlekrazy

 

the old CS Cranberry Marmalade was not a cran-apple. (That’s the new one that took it’s place - that I don’t care for). It’s now phthalate free - which i honestly care NOTHING about. I’m sure taking it phthalate free was why they had to switch to a cran-apple.  CS is “committed” to having all oils phthalate free by end of year...they also screwed up Red Currant (another one I loved). But it doesn’t have the same sales drive the cran marm has and other companies sell red currant that I’m willing to test. Just have never found another cran marm.  I’d probably be willing to buy 25 pounds if it was close enough. The FO was that popular. Used it at 6% and threw GREAT in my soy. 

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@The Candle Nook

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this is the gold standard I miss that always sold excellent well. The CS one was similar seemed but weaker. The new cs one is horrible beyond words 

 

this is the one I would want to  have made. 
 

maybe afi already has the cs one. They have loads of names supplier scents. 
 

ETA that bottle is probably 7-8 years old so not sure how it compared to anything newer 

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23 minutes ago, The Candle Nook said:

@TallTayl  so sorry for you and that Peaks oil. Honestly, if I’d been in the industry as long as some of you — I’d be so frustrated with changing oils 🙄🙄🙄

How much of your original candle science bottle do you have? It takes generally an ounce sometimes 2 ounces to get it duplicated.

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