Sarah S Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Good conversation, thank you! Plenty of food for thought. @strugglebrother, there is a massive thread in the soy/veggie wax section, if you haven't found it yet. I think it's still on the first page of that section. Makes me so happy I use mainly paraffin. It's just terrible what the small business soy chandlers are going through right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 There are several threads about this depending on which soy you use you will likely run into a whole host of issues....don't think you can just start mass producing - you will need to test all over again every single fragrance depending on your lot numbers on your cases ....I think it's mid 2017 changes were being noticed I contacted candlescience and they claim nothing has changed with AAK soy waxes even though I have hundreds of complete fails sitting here as proof and they claim they have had no other complaints when I know for a fact several people have called and emailed about it as well 415 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised 464 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised along with complaints of sweating C3 is having to be wicked up and ht is compromised 6006 which has soy has been stated wicking issues as well Those are the ones I remember off hand as they are used the most quantum waxes I won't even go there - the complaints are many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I have tried to have a look but I couldn't find much about 444 which I use. I introduced a Xmas candle in our line and that burnt well. Maybe I was lucky with that one. I had sweating from time to time, I couldn't figure out if it's was the California weather (hot and cold) but maybe it is the wax then. All my 444 wax when I checked is LOT F. Luckily we are cutting down our line and introducing new ones. I do a paraffin / soy / coconut blend for other clients who don't care about pure soy. If it's like this I might throw in the towel on 100% vegetable wax and do a blend. People don't seem to care anymore, so many candles with paraffin blend and people still think there is only soy in them. Voluspa is a great example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katmeltswax Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Sarah S said: Good conversation, thank you! Plenty of food for thought. @strugglebrother, there is a massive thread in the soy/veggie wax section, if you haven't found it yet. I think it's still on the first page of that section. Makes me so happy I use mainly paraffin. It's just terrible what the small business soy chandlers are going through right now. I am a paraffin user as well.I wanted to try soy & have ordered 220 & 230 .This stuff has a terrible smell ,so I did not attempt to use it at all. I have used some 464 ,Aztec tart blend & a hand full of other soys in the past ,not enough to form a fair opinion thou. I do not understand why the soy wax industry is changing what WAS a good thing . I have no knowledge of soy ,just have read many complaints on this so called new wax . I guess I will stay with my paraffin & hope there will not be any drastic major changes with it .I hope the situation gets resolved for all the soy users soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katmeltswax Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 hours ago, moonshine said: There are several threads about this depending on which soy you use you will likely run into a whole host of issues....don't think you can just start mass producing - you will need to test all over again every single fragrance depending on your lot numbers on your cases ....I think it's mid 2017 changes were being noticed I contacted candlescience and they claim nothing has changed with AAK soy waxes even though I have hundreds of complete fails sitting here as proof and they claim they have had no other complaints when I know for a fact several people have called and emailed about it as well 415 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised 464 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised along with complaints of sweating C3 is having to be wicked up and ht is compromised 6006 which has soy has been stated wicking issues as well Those are the ones I remember off hand as they are used the most quantum waxes I won't even go there - the complaints are many Quantem definitely has major issues .Crazy how the suppliers deny any problems .I just don't get why they made such a drastic change from good to bad , unbelievable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katmeltswax Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, katmeltswax said: Quantem definitely has major issues .Crazy how the suppliers deny any problems .I just don't get why they made such a drastic change from good to bad , unbelievable . Has to be a reason ,just no one will let the consumer in on this for some hidden reason imo. Going to stay with paraffin ,not wanting to waste money on a bad product .I have heard enough to keep me away from the Quantem ,smells horrible too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 23 hours ago, moonshine said: There are several threads about this depending on which soy you use you will likely run into a whole host of issues....don't think you can just start mass producing - you will need to test all over again every single fragrance depending on your lot numbers on your cases ....I think it's mid 2017 changes were being noticed I contacted candlescience and they claim nothing has changed with AAK soy waxes even though I have hundreds of complete fails sitting here as proof and they claim they have had no other complaints when I know for a fact several people have called and emailed about it as well 415 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised 464 is having to be wicked down and ht is compromised along with complaints of sweating C3 is having to be wicked up and ht is compromised 6006 which has soy has been stated wicking issues as well Those are the ones I remember off hand as they are used the most quantum waxes I won't even go there - the complaints are many I just spoke with Candlescience... They just say the same thing to me, nothing has changed and there is just a VERY small percentage that has complained about this. I took a decision today to throw in the towel on pure soy and in the future mix it with paraffin and label it as a natural soy wax blend (hey that's what all the big guys do anyway and all buyers do believe they are buying pure soy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Well if nothing is changed and why are so many of the reviews two and three stars? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: Well if nothing is changed and why are so many of the reviews two and three stars? Exactly.... Anyone heard from any other reseller regarding the quality control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, strugglebrother said: I just spoke with Candlescience... They just say the same thing to me, nothing has changed and there is just a VERY small percentage that has complained about this. Of course they are not going to tell a consumer of their products that they have gotten a LARGE percentage of complaints. LOL 1 hour ago, strugglebrother said: I took a decision today to throw in the towel on pure soy and in the future mix it with paraffin and label it as a natural soy wax blend (hey that's what all the big guys do anyway and all buyers do believe they are buying pure soy) This is one of the reasons I don't work with, or buy soy candles. You never know what you are really getting, unless it says 100% soy. I know if I bought a "pure soy" candle, only to later find out I'd been duped by the wording, i wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't be a return customer, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Jcandleattic said: This is one of the reasons I don't work with, or buy soy candles. You never know what you are really getting, unless it says 100% soy. I know if I bought a "pure soy" candle, only to later find out I'd been duped by the wording, i wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't be a return customer, for sure. 2 I think the customer is mostly happy if the candle scent the room in a strong but pleasant way, have a good cold throw so they know what they are buying, don't soot and have a good flame. Soy or coconut wax does give a nice rounded smell to the candle fragrance so I don't mind a blend of both soy and paraffin, to be honest. PF Candle Co's candles who are low scented 100% soy candles barely scent a normal room until you burned yourself 20 hrs into the candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, strugglebrother said: I think the customer is mostly happy if the candle scent the room in a strong but pleasant way, have a good cold throw so they know what they are buying, don't soot and have a good flame. Soy or coconut wax does give a nice rounded smell to the candle fragrance so I don't mind a blend of both soy and paraffin, to be honest. PF Candle Co's candles who are low scented 100% soy candles barely scent a normal room until you burned yourself 20 hrs into the candle. Yes, but if that's all they want, then why go through the shenanigans of wording it with buzz words, possibly misleading the consumer? i use a paraffin blend (no soy at all) that will do exactly everything you just said, and I have a good following with a good customer base and repeat customers. When asked if my candles are made with soy, I proudly declare they are not, and if interested in listening, I tell them my candles can do everything a soy candle can do expect be soy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Jcandleattic said: Yes, but if that's all they want, then why go through the shenanigans of wording it with buzz words, possibly misleading the consumer? i use a paraffin blend (no soy at all) that will do exactly everything you just said, and I have a good following with a good customer base and repeat customers. When asked if my candles are made with soy, I proudly declare they are not, and if interested in listening, I tell them my candles can do everything a soy candle can do expect be soy. I think it's because people have been hammered on TV, blogs, word of mouth etc.. that paraffin is bad for you... It's marketing. I live in California, we have a lot of people here who claim they only want to use natural products, eco friendly, gmo etc etc.. Then they all carry iPhones (which are manufactured by small children in third world developing countries) and driving huge SUV's (which slurps gasoline and pollute the planet more than any other car). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 My advice? Know your market and chandle on. I dont use those words any more. My market wants fun, fragrant candles. Maybe one a week even asks about soy. Make what you like and “your” customers will follow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, strugglebrother said: I think the customer is mostly happy if the candle scent the room in a strong but pleasant way, have a good cold throw so they know what they are buying, don't soot and have a good flame. Soy or coconut wax does give a nice rounded smell to the candle fragrance so I don't mind a blend of both soy and paraffin, to be honest. PF Candle Co's candles who are low scented 100% soy candles barely scent a normal room until you burned yourself 20 hrs into the candle. My advice on this- label it true to what it is.... I agree with JC on this one 100%- I want to KNOW whats in my candle I am buying and why would anyone want to hide it?? You are correct people are looking for a good fragrant candle that burns good BUT some people have allergies and sensitivities to ingredients.... why try and sell off a candle as pure soy when its simply not and just put parasoy blend on your label- 95% people wont give a crap but your being honest this way and not selling something that someone could react to Companies that say soy blend.....I call them and ask whats in it- if you cant tell me I am not buying, I am not asking for recipes but if I am gifting to certain people they cannot burn paraffin without sensitivites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 39 minutes ago, moonshine said: My advice on this- label it true to what it is.... I agree with JC on this one 100%- I want to KNOW whats in my candle I am buying and why would anyone want to hide it?? You are correct people are looking for a good fragrant candle that burns good BUT some people have allergies and sensitivities to ingredients.... why try and sell off a candle as pure soy when its simply not and just put parasoy blend on your label- 95% people wont give a crap but your being honest this way and not selling something that someone could react to Companies that say soy blend.....I call them and ask whats in it- if you cant tell me I am not buying, I am not asking for recipes but if I am gifting to certain people they cannot burn paraffin without sensitivites No one should lie about what's in their products... But I haven't seen one paraffin candle yet label their candle "a 100% petroleum based product". If there it's paraffin in any commercial candle they will have no info on their labels. Why? Because you only want to market your ingredients if they are natural. Putting soywax blend on your candle will inform any customers about that it's mixed with something else, probably paraffin. Putting soy & paraffin blend will just make it sound bad these days. That's been my feedback from shopowners here in Los Angeles. Regarding allergens, who would even know what is in the fragrance oils one is using for their candles if they haven't made them from straight up aroma molecules. Saying pure soy and sticking anything else in it would be unethical. But you then have to make sure that it's pure soywax, and not a soywax like C3 etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I was referring to allergens to paraffin, not the fragrance themselves One of my sisters gets itchy watery eyes and runny nose when burning paraffin- I recently sent her some melts with straight soy which she never had a problem with and then I sent her some in the same scent with coconut and beeswax and a parasoy---- the parasoy made her react and she did to the coconut beeswax a little also but not the soy You cant control what people are sensitive to I understand but its always been my business practice to lay it all out there so people know what they are getting- the product sells itself so long as they are not allergic soy blend is stating it contains something else so yes people use it but I dont agree with it but I just one small little person in this world Edited January 9, 2018 by moonshine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, moonshine said: I was referring to allergens to paraffin, not the fragrance themselves One of my sisters gets itchy watery eyes and runny nose when burning paraffin- I recently sent her some melts with straight soy which she never had a problem with and then I sent her some in the same scent with coconut and beeswax and a parasoy---- the parasoy made her react and she did to the coconut beeswax a little also but not the soy You cant control what people are sensitive to I understand but its always been my business practice to lay it all out there so people know what they are getting- the product sells itself so long as they are not allergic soy blend is stating it contains something else so yes people use it but I dont agree with it but I just one small little person in this world I totally agree... I think what I meant is that if someone is allergic they should look for a product that clearly states that it doesn't contain anything of what they are allergic too. Unfortunately, paraffin has such a bad reputation, and it's blown up out of proportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Not on topic but since allergies were brought up... Does anyone know if soy candles can trigger soy allergies? I've often wondered if those sensitive to soy could handle them or breathe in any fumes/smoke/soot from a soy candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Kerven said: Not on topic but since allergies were brought up... Does anyone know if soy candles can trigger soy allergies? I've often wondered if those sensitive to soy could handle them or breathe in any fumes/smoke/soot from a soy candle. This came up on a pottery forum last week. Supposedly, quite a few people claimed they do have adverse reactions to soy candles when they have issues with soy. Anecdotal, but so many people responded that way it was worth mental noting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, Kerven said: Not on topic but since allergies were brought up... Does anyone know if soy candles can trigger soy allergies? I've often wondered if those sensitive to soy could handle them or breathe in any fumes/smoke/soot from a soy candle. Yes, a very good friend of mine has allergic reactions to soy and rarely burns candles since so many have have some sort of blend. She was gifted what she thought was a paraffin candle and her skin got really itchy and dry eyes. She called the company and they confirmed they use a paraffin-soy blend in that candle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 @Candybee didn't you say soy wax gives you irritations? Someone on here I read at one time said it did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 10:38 PM, moonshine said: @Candybee didn't you say soy wax gives you irritations? Someone on here I read at one time said it did Yes. I used to make soy candles and had to quit making them because it gave me horrible skin rashes. My hands would be covered in angry red and painful rashes that were hard to get rid of. Had to use cortizone cremes for weeks to get rid of them. So I switched to palm wax instead and was glad I did. As soon as I stopped handling soy my rashes went away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Candybee said: Yes. I used to make soy candles and had to quit making them because it gave me horrible skin rashes. My hands would be covered in angry red and painful rashes that were hard to get rid of. Had to use cortizone cremes for weeks to get rid of them. So I switched to palm wax instead and was glad I did. As soon as I stopped handling soy my rashes went away. I thought it was you....so prime example people have reactions to different waxes which makes me stand firm in my belief ingredients should be listed on candles just like they are and bath and body 😉 The mighty dollar isn't worth putting someone in misery because of "creative" labeling trying to sell a product 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shari Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 And another reason would be the cost of a lawsuit should you be found to be hiding something. Better have really good insurance and then you may even be at risk of the insurance not covering you for lying/not being truthful. Not worth the risk ever. I list everything in my products. Granted, I don't make candles, but if I did I'd label the same way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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