Uncut Fragrance oil suppliers

[Venetti]

I've been looking at a few different FO suppliers as I want to test a few new ones. 

 

I'm trying to find strong, uncut oils. Just fragrance oils which smell strong and not with the diluted smell some contain. 

 

I've researched reviews on a couple and they don't look promising. I've only heard good things about them on this forum, though. Most had 3.5/5 stars. 

 

I'd rather get some insight than waste money. Thanks everyone 😊

[Moonstar]

Have you tried Candle Science 

( CS) they have very good oils.

fragrance buddy -  bitter creek

flaming candle - 

[Shari]

Nature's Garden Candles, Aztec, Rustic Escentuals or WSP

[Jcandleattic]

Almost all (if not all) the candle suppliers have uncut oils, so I guess I'm not sure what you are asking? 3.5-5 stars is not bad, considering most ratings for fragrances is a 1-5 rating. With 5 being the best. 

 

With every supplier, no matter which one you go with (most here have several they buy from, not just one) are going to have hits and misses. It's just the nature of the business. You are going to have scents that you absolutely love, that others are going to give bad reviews on and vice verse. 

It's why everyone on this board stresses to test test test. 

 

Now, with that being said, there are several suppliers people use and recommend. Here are a few (by no means is this an exhaustive list): 

 

Natures Garden

Keystone Candle Supply (for Peak oils) 

Aztec

Lonestar

WSP (wholesale supplies plus) 

Rustic Esscentuals

Just Scent

Fragrance Buddy

Candle Science

Candles and Supplies

Bitter Creek North

Arizona Candle Supply (for Mad Oils oils) 

 

I'm sure there are several others that I can't think of at the moment. 

 

[katmeltswax]

Candlewic has some awesome strong oils,check out their ultimate & bold selection. I agree with Jcandleattic ,you will always get some misses here and there .I think overall the list given so far is great . Do you have  certain scents you are looking for ? You will find some good recommendations here .

[NaughtyNancy]

If I am aiming for strong FO's I go for bulk apothecary or piping rock. I do find that natures garden and rustic escentuals fade much faster (I do solid personal fragrance mostly). Sometimes that's okay or even preferable, depending, so I don't see them as bad. I prefer having the varying options, actually. There are also some exceptions so far. Rustic escentuals' just peachy FO wound up being crazy-strong, for example. I would never need to pay more elsewhere for a strong peach. But with some scents/notes I like to use in blends like sandalwood, tonka bean, fantasy musks, etc if I want a bottom/base with some oomph I splurge on the stronger stuff.

[katmeltswax]

42 minutes ago, NaughtyNancy said:

If I am aiming for strong FO's I go for bulk apothecary or piping rock. I do find that natures garden and rustic escentuals fade much faster (I do solid personal fragrance mostly). Sometimes that's okay or even preferable, depending, so I don't see them as bad. I prefer having the varying options, actually. There are also some exceptions so far. Rustic escentuals' just peachy FO wound up being crazy-strong, for example. I would never need to pay more elsewhere for a strong peach. But with some scents/notes I like to use in blends like sandalwood, tonka bean, fantasy musks, etc if I want a bottom/base with some oomph I splurge on the stronger stuff.

So is Bulk Apothecary really strong ? I have browsed the site ,just do not want to get dependent on another computer.I have to many as it is & really need to try an cut those in half . Shipping can cost a small fortune .I would love to try RE Peach ,always searching for a great one .That would mean another supplier & more shipping lol.It never ends right .

[katmeltswax]

Just now, katmeltswax said:

So is Bulk Apothecary really strong ? I have browsed the site ,just do not want to get dependent on another computer.I have to many as it is & really need to try an cut those in half . Shipping can cost a small fortune .I would love to try RE Peach ,always searching for a great one .That would mean another supplier & more shipping lol.It never ends right .

I meant supplier lmbo not computer ,with the statement I just made .Gosh it has been a long day .I become a retard when I am tired lol😀

[Jcandleattic]

36 minutes ago, katmeltswax said:

.Gosh it has been a long day .I become a retard when I am tired lol😀

Really???  

[Sarah S]

10 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

Almost all (if not all) the candle suppliers have uncut oils, so I guess I'm not sure what you are asking? 3.5-5 stars is not bad, considering most ratings for fragrances is a 1-5 rating. With 5 being the best. 

 

With every supplier, no matter which one you go with (most here have several they buy from, not just one) are going to have hits and misses. It's just the nature of the business. You are going to have scents that you absolutely love, that others are going to give bad reviews on and vice verse. 

It's why everyone on this board stresses to test test test. 

 

Now, with that being said, there are several suppliers people use and recommend. Here are a few (by no means is this an exhaustive list): 

 

Natures Garden

Keystone Candle Supply (for Peak oils) 

Aztec

Lonestar

WSP (wholesale supplies plus) 

Rustic Esscentuals

Just Scent

Fragrance Buddy

Candle Science

Candles and Supplies

Bitter Creek North

Arizona Candle Supply (for Mad Oils oils) 

 

I'm sure there are several others that I can't think of at the moment. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more with what JC said.

I have found that with suppliers that focus more on soap, such as Nurture Soap, Mad Oils, WSP,  they tend to have more oils that do better in B&B than wax. Some, like NG and RE, have oils that do well in either or both, and you just have to test the heck out of those. And suppliers that focus on candles, like Candlewic and Flaming, have more oils that are amazing in wax but fall flat in soap. This is just my experience, YMMV.

Honestly, with all the suppliers above, the vast majority of their "duds" for me are because I don't like the fragrance, not because of poor performance. I have yet to get an oil from a candle-dedicated supplier that hasn't thrown like a MLB pitcher. 😁

[NaughtyNancy]

52 minutes ago, katmeltswax said:

So is Bulk Apothecary really strong ? I have browsed the site ,just do not want to get dependent on another computer.I have to many as it is & really need to try an cut those in half . Shipping can cost a small fortune .I would love to try RE Peach ,always searching for a great one .That would mean another supplier & more shipping lol.It never ends right .

 

Most FO's I go for are of the musk/earthy/wood/spice sorts. That said, bulk apothecary FO has been the strongest for me. I couldn't say how their fruity or floral ones compare, as examples. I go for stuff like tobacco vanilla, patchouli saffron, frankincense & myrrh.. I do also really like their white pepper lavender which is technically a floral I guess, but not a soft or light sort. I have tried some culinary themed FO from them and all have been extremely strong. That roasted oatmeal stout one about blows my eyebrows off with the smell of cookies when I open the bottle. 

 

I have my faves from a handful of places, and yeah the shipping is brutal unless I already know what I like/want and can do a bulk order. Once I know what I like and am just ordering bulk staples it's not as big a deal. But when exploring & sampling it's killer. I tend to save up a while and then do a huge order of samples from a new company to save money, like free shipping for orders over $X or other offers. 

 

With bulk apothecary they really seem to favor earthier blending, which I love, personally, but not all people do. Sandalwood patch FO from them is like a very earthy musk with some hints of sandalwood coming out during its dry down.

 

They also tend to lean sharper and woodier. For example frankincense from natures garden smells of powdery incense. Essence of Jesus from rustic escentuals - supposed to be a woody myrrh scent IIRC - smells like mildly warm sweet tea with hints of cinnamon to me. It's certainly not bad but a far cry from woody. Frankincense & myrrh by bulk apothecary smells like sharp wood with dark spice in it. Just major differences in subjective interpretations.

 

So bulk apothecary is also my preferred choice for strong, earthy and woody notes. That's personal preference at play, to a great extent. When I do want soft incense type FO I prefer natures garden.

 

Rustic escentuals has some big winners of their own for me, like their cuban tobacco. I am not much into fruity smells but got some for friends and family who like them, and yeah their peach was amazing. I would probably start with sampling rustic escentuals if I was looking to build up a full fruity notes line.

[katmeltswax]

1 hour ago, Jcandleattic said:

Really???  

Well , retard really is not the appropriate word ,just out of sorts would be the best way to put it lol.I  certainly do not mean any harm by calling myself that . Thinking I need to get some sleep soon.I stayed up until 3 am this morning with my wax pot & pour pitcher  ,then got 3 hours of sleep & right back to it all day .I really admire you all that pour so many candles daily and other crafting .It is alot of hard work , especially when you have health issues.I will admit it is fun thou .

[Becky]

Out of the MANY suppliers I have tried, hands down Bramble Berry and Sweetcakes are the strongest! (JMHO)

[strugglebrother]

Bitter Creek's oils are diluted heavily with a solvent. Wellington also (even their premium ones who are supposed to be uncut)

 

Bramble Berry's oils are strong but only a few are suitable for candlemaking.

 

Strongest one's for candles would be Candle Science & Rustic. Save on Scents sell their oil's as diluted or uncut (extreme)

 

Bulk Apothecary has terrible customer support and many of their oils will go off within 6 months.

 

Nature's Garden's oils are very cut and has a soapy smell to all of them (first time ever all of my samples with a supplier went in the bin)

Edited January 7, 2018 by strugglebrother

[Sarah S]

15 hours ago, strugglebrother said:

Bitter Creek's oils are diluted heavily with a solvent. Wellington also (even their premium ones who are supposed to be uncut)

 

Bramble Berry's oils are strong but only a few are suitable for candlemaking.

 

Strongest one's for candles would be Candle Science & Rustic. Save on Scents sell their oil's as diluted or uncut (extreme)

 

Bulk Apothecary has terrible customer support and many of their oils will go off within 6 months.

 

Nature's Garden's oils are very cut and has a soapy smell to all of them (first time ever all of my samples with a supplier went in the bin)

 

How do you know this? Have you had the oils analyzed, or do you have access to the formulas, or have first hand knowledge of the suppliers' practices? I'm not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious about the source of your information.

I have tried oils from all of those suppliers, and generally speaking when I am displeased with an oil it is because of my fragrance preferences, not because of the oil's strength or performance. Of all the suppliers you mentioned, I use RE and NG the most and I personally think they both have high quality oils. Of course, not all of them do great in wax, but I've had more hits than misses with both. 

If you have access to information that the rest of us do not, I would be interested to hear more.

[katmeltswax]

Interesting & please do tell us more about these oils.Have you had these sent to lab to find out the cut? I am curious to get more information about these you mentioned .Please do let us know .Thanks in advance .

[TallTayl]

Fragrances are available in different concentrations made directly at the lab.  All aromachemicals are dispersed into a carrier base. That is not the same as "being cut". 

 

a lb of pure aromachemicals will cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars depending on the particular item you need. Fragrances are blends of many (sometimes hundreds) of individual aromachemicals. 

 

Perfumers use the same base aromachemicals, and dilute into carriers of their preference for personal scenting. The cost of those aromachemicals is astronomical by the dram. It would be cost prohibitive to make a candle from a personal recipe of most raw aromachemicals. Some may not even disperse well into wax without a solvent (vanilla oleoresins for instance). 

 

The cheapest ingredients for someone to "cut" aromachemicals would be either DPG or a veg oil. Both would be very easy to detect.  soapmakers who also use those same skin safe oils know just by how the raw soap reacts to the fragrance. DPG makes soap seize into a solid mass almost immediately. Liquid veg oils such as soybean turn the soap slimy and cause oxidation (DOS). 

 

if you want access to really cheap fragrance oils, don't expect them all to be concentrated or nuanced. That does not mean they are cut, just that there are not the same amounts of the expensive aromachemicals dispersed into the blend. Save on scents is a perfect example of this. If you want the cheapest concentration, don't expect it to be the same as the most expensive. 

 

Liken this to paint. If you want a deeeeep color, you need more pigment. More pigment costs more $.  

 

You want a more intense coffee flavor, add more beans to he brew. The carriers are the same in both cases. 

[strugglebrother]

In some cases it's personal preference... others I have spoken or read things about from the manufacturers.

 

Save on Scents I've spoken to on the phone, their head perfumer. Their extreme oils are without any solvent, Standard and Ultra are diluted. Prices reflect that. And their extreme versions smell strong.

 

Bramble Berry's FO's I have had bad luck with in soywax, not many of them give great hot throw. They have also taken away a lot of their candle products and focusing mostly on soap making. There are not many reviews based on candle making. This is my personal testing.

 

Wellington's oils are hit and miss. Most of my oil faded quick within 4-6 months and what's left is a smell of alcohol/fuel which makes me believe they are all cut. Solvent or carrier oil eats through the fragrance after a while. A personal reference here.

 

Bitter Creek and Nature's Garden both have a certain smell to them that carries through all their oils. Personal preference here, but that makes me believe a certain type of solvent or carrier oil has been used. Bitter Creek has some nice scents tho, I wouldn't say they are the strongest out of the bottle but I think they smell good. Nature's Garden, I might have ordered 20 of their worst samples maybe? But they all smelled like shampoo? 

 

Rustic and Candle Science always smell strong out of the bottle and performs almost always great in soywax.

 

Bulk Apothecary just has really bad business practices, I have written a long thread about them here on the forum. Otherwise, this might help  https://www.yelp.com/biz/bulk-apothecary-streetsboro I buy everything straight from Lebermuth instead where I get the oils tapped fresh.

 

So, yeah you are right, no one is going to tell you / yeah we cut our oils etc... It's mostly personal preference and testing, I should have mentioned that.

 

The quality of the oil is also dependant on how fresh they are. Some suppliers have their oil's sitting and when you get them they will go bad within a few months. I feel Rustic, Candle Science, Wholesalesuppliesplus, Save on Scents & Lebermuth to be the ones that are freshly tapped and lasts the longest without fading or changing.

[TallTayl]

Well given all the issues with soy wax this year I don’t blame the fragrance manufacturers.

 

The same bottle of fragrances that I bye-bye the keg perform differently this year than last. Same exact keg. Just different wax.

[TallTayl]

Oh and some of my bottles of fragrance which I store in glass are upwards of a decade old and every bit as strong as the day that I bought them. Yes storage is important. Opaque glass, cool is key. Though I do have some kegs that I store the original in because I don’t want 50 bottles on the shelf. Those oils are as strong as the day the kegs arrived.

[TallTayl]

 Yes, you can tell from the base smell usually where it came from. Bramble Berry always smells sweet. Aroma Haven has an undertone of maple syrup. 

 

 Natures garden has a hell of an inventory turnover

[strugglebrother]

17 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The cheapest ingredients for someone to "cut" aromachemicals would be either DPG or a veg oil. Both would be very easy to detect.  soapmakers who also use those same skin safe oils know just by how the raw soap reacts to the fragrance. DPG makes soap seize into a solid mass almost immediately. Liquid veg oils such as soybean turn the soap slimy and cause oxidation (DOS). 

 

1

 

Yes, you are spot on here. We have DPG which we use to cut our aromachemicals with to dilute them for testing. This is when doing perfume. As the pure aromachemical is really strong you want to dilute it when mixing. The final product has 10-40% of concentration and the rest is perfumers alcohol, which you later spray on your skin.

 

DPG can be used to dilute fragrance oils for making incense sticks also.

 

I have also tried DOA - Dioctyl Adipate which is a solvent that is completely odorless - which can be used to dilute fragrance oils without leaving any trace of scent.

 

I will add to this, I'm not in any way an expert on the subject but I try my best to search and search to get wiser and try new things.

[strugglebrother]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Well given all the issues with soy wax this year I don’t blame the fragrance manufacturers.

 

 

I haven't followed what is going on with soy wax this year. I haven't worked through all my 50lb of wax yet. I live in Los Angeles and my wax isn't sourceable locally here so I order usually 6-7 50lb of soy for cheaper shipping and the last order was this summer.

 

Are all soywax affected or just the new Ecosoy that has gotten terrible reviews everywhere. I luckily don't use Ecosoy.

 

 

[TallTayl]

20 minutes ago, strugglebrother said:

 

I haven't followed what is going on with soy wax this year. I haven't worked through all my 50lb of wax yet. I live in Los Angeles and my wax isn't sourceable locally here so I order usually 6-7 50lb of soy for cheaper shipping and the last order was this summer.

 

Are all soywax affected or just the new Ecosoy that has gotten terrible reviews everywhere. I luckily don't use Ecosoy.

 

 

ALL of them. Every single one. I nearly closed my main source of income because of it. Though wax retailers like candle science will call you all sorts of crazy if you say otherwise. Even when you have hundreds of items of proof.... 

 

 

[strugglebrother]

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

ALL of them. Every single one. I nearly closed my main source of income because of it. Though wax retailers like candle science will call you all sorts of crazy if you say otherwise. Even when you have hundreds of items of proof.... 

 

 

Scents change? Or other problems? Is there a thread about this?