New Fragrance Co in Georgia

[Stella1952]

Are you saying that your loyalty to your customers would prevent you from making the sale?

No, but I would be sure to provide them with sufficient warning so they could stock up or make other arrangements. Sudden announcements leave businesses scrambling... Common consideration is not too much to expect. If I were buying a large amount from a small supplier and needed to close my business, I would try to let them know in advance so they could pour on the gas to pick up accounts to make up for the income loss from mine. It's just being civil... Edited November 29, 2011 by Stella1952

[Seamist]

I highly doubt he sold his business.. He has only been in biz 8 months. What did he do with the warehouse he told you he was building and would be completed.

When I said he shut the door, I meant his business, websites, ebay.. Poof the dude is gone. He got his $$ selling his overstock and discounted oils to you and is running... I don't believe he manufactured them at all.

He says he manufactures all of his 3000 oils, then I guess he will be manufacturing them for the PR buyer?? Really..

What did he sell, his business name or his soul. If he manufactures oils, then why not just sell the oils he makes to the buyer in PR (Of all places). Why would he have to sell his business name.. He could just sell them his oils??? Right?? Having a non-compete agreement would only hurt his so called manufacturing business.

If he indeed manufactured oils, he could be a supplier to all the US candle companies. Why sell out?? Makes no sense at all if you really think about it.

There are way to many holes in this story of his. I think it is all BS!! I hate seeing people being taken advantage of.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Seamist

[classiccandle]

I understand what you're saying. However, when a seller signs a non-disclosure agreement that means they can't say anything about the sale until it's complete. As much as they'd like to they can't tell their customers that they're being sold, that they should stock up, or anything else until after the sale is done or the deal is off. Does it make the supplier look heartless and inconsiderate? It absolutely does but, and I'm not saying Luis signed anything because frankly I don't know, if something was signed his hands were tied. I could get upset as well since I just introduced two of his fragrances into my line two weeks ago and now there's a chance that I'll have to find dupes for them or tell my customers the fragrances are no longer available. It sucks but it's part of doing business.

[classiccandle]

Seamist, you may be totally correct in your assessment of what's going on or you could be totally wrong and the same goes for me. All I'm saying is he never promised me anything, provided great customer service, great prices, and mostly great oils. I too find it suspect, and have from the beginning, that he manufacturers all of his oils out of his house. Now, if I had paid him money for his oils and never received them I'd probably be as pessimistic as you are but I didn't. I ordered, paid, and he delivered, often times more than I ordered. Did you even order anything from him or are you just judging him from how he supposedly "closed" his business?

[Seamist]

Nope, never ordered from him. He seemed shady to me from the beginning.

I am sure he was nice, most scam artist are.

You say you are suspect.. Follow your gut instinct then. It usually is right.

[Stella1952]

However, when a seller signs a non-disclosure agreement that means they can't say anything about the sale until it's complete.

I understand this, but no one is forced to sign such an agreement. I don't remember if he said he signed a non-disclosure agreement - just a non-compete one. In any case, people DO have the choice of the ethics they follow, even when the money is very tempting. Excusing it as "that's just business" is how yesterday's outrageous business deal becomes tomorrow's accepted business practice. I like to do businss with people who realize that a business deal is one that benefits BOTH parties and treat one another with respect.

[carol k]

I'm not sure what you're talking about Seamist. He never promised me anything. I'm assuming that your statement about his shutting the door in my face refers to his selling his company without notice. If he did indeed sell his company then that's his business. When companies are sold buyers will often times require the seller to sign a non-disclosure and/or non-compete agreement making it impossible for them to let us know what's going on until after the sale is complete. We take risks with every supplier we deal with and those times when others have been sold I don't remember such vitriolic statements being made about their sale.

A lot of his oils worked well in the wax I use, 415, and so yes I would still like to hunt him down and give him my money for those oils, if he is still going to sell them. If he isn't and it is just a scam then I'll move on to another supplier and take my chances with them.

Ditto, well said. Those that don't buy from him it's your loss & why bash someone you have not even dealt with. Sad.

[classiccandle]

That's just it Stella. A business deal that benefits BOTH parties is one in which each party gets what they feel is fair. There's nothing unethical about that. There's nothing unethical about having someone sign a non-disclosure agreement or in signing one. It's part of the negotiation process that both parties participate in. It seems as if you want the customers of the business being sold to be included in the negotiations when they have no skin in the game. If they don't like the new owners or how they're running the business they have the option to choose another company to do business with. As sad as it may be customers of any company that is sold are simply thought of as collateral damage. Some will stay with the new owners and some will not. Again, it's part of being a business.

The company I worked with prior to starting my candle business was purchased last year by a New York investment firm for $600M and part of the agreement was that they couldn't say anything about the sale until it was complete or the deal was off. I don't think they thought of it as them being forced into signing the NDA in exchange for getting $600M. They were happy to do it and in my humble opinion it wasn't unethical and apparently they didn't think so either. The CEO/Founder of the company spent the past 38 years of his life building that company to what it is today. Should they have included the associates that worked in the field who made them as successful as they were in on the negotiations? No way! We made our money, they made theirs and when it came time to sell not a word was said to us until the deal was done. At that time I chose to go another direction and start my candle business, not because I was bitter but because I wanted a business that was truly mine to do with as I pleased. My company is mine. My customers are an integral part of it but they're not the ones making the sacrifices, spending endless hours at work, or making the financial investment it takes to make it successful. My goal is to make my customers happy but I won't sacrifice the financial well being of myself or my family just to be put on a pedestal by my customers.

[Seamist]

Ditto, well said. Those that don't buy from him it's your loss & why bash someone you have not even dealt with. Sad.

I an thankful I did not deal with him. I am not bashing, just stating the obvious.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Seamist

[Stella1952]

It seems as if you want the customers of the business being sold to be included in the negotiations when they have no skin in the game

CC, they DO have "skin in the game" but are not players. CaftCandles had over $500 of "skin" that just got abraded...

My customers are an integral part of it but they're not the ones making the sacrifices, spending endless hours at work, or making the financial investment it takes to make it successful. My goal is to make my customers happy but I won't sacrifice the financial well being of myself or my family just to be put on a pedestal by my customers.

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with the sense of your statement. Your customers are where you make your money. No one is suggesting anything like being placed on a pedestal, but there's got to be middle ground between suppliers and customers. Business exists to serve the needs of people, not the other way around. I think modern business has forgotten that... what a shame. Just my opinion...

[classiccandle]

You're right Stella, customers are where you make your money but they're just as likely to take that money to your competitors if they feel they aren't getting what they want. Where's their loyalty? It's in their pocketbook that's where. It's harder today to satisfy customers because it seems they want more in return for what they're willing to give. People talk about the greed of Corporate America but they don't want to look in the mirror because it's too painful to face the truth that they're just as greedy, only on a smaller scale. In deference to your statement about businesses existing to serve the needs of the people, that may have been true a hundred years ago but today they're more about serving the wants of the people. There is very little that people actually need to survive, the rest is gluttony.

I don't consider the $500 CC spent on inventory as having skin in the game. Does she have skin in the game regarding her own company? She sure does and if she sells her business to someone else she doesn't have to include her customers in on the negotiations. Using your philosophy we'd have skin in the game with any company we spend money with. Should we be included with all M & A's for companies we've spent money on? I ate lunch at Whataburger today so if they sell should I be included in the negotiations since I spent my money there? Absolutely not. That's ridiculous.

You make for an interesting debate though.

[carol k]

I an thankful I did not deal with him. I am not bashing, just stating the obvious.

I nor the people who have purchased his oils have been scammed so I don't see where you can say he's a scam artist. Big deal he sold this company name, he's getting lined around to sell on ebay. He told me he should have the oils up friday. This thread is very long & filled with alot of his customers that are very happy with his oils.

[funkymonkey66]

I wouldn't say anyone was scammed and I don't think he is a scam artist. I think whatever is going on is his business and he can run it anyway he sees fit just like every other business owner. I think everyone here made really great points.

He wouldn't be the first business owner to exaggerate to create an image of being just a little better than the other guy.

I only care about getting quality oils, consistently and at a fair price. I think a few weeks before Christmas was a bad time to do this because as we all know sometimes we need it in a pinch no matter how well we stock up for the season. Business are bought and sold all the time, but most of the time customers get some notice or at least we should.

One thing that stands out to me is the non compete agreement, how is he going to sell on eBay? it’s an online storefront. That doesn’t make sense to me. He may as well leave his website open if he’s going to do that.

I think the guy is talking too much and should figure out what is what before he tells the wrong person the wrong thing. He probably got overwhelmed,closed and said a few things and now doesn't know how to fix it.

[Stella1952]

I ate lunch at Whataburger today so if they sell should I be included in the negotiations since I spent my money there?

Whataburger is not a supplier whose products you are basing your business upon.

I nor the people who have purchased his oils have been scammed so I don't see where you can say he's a scam artist.

I agree, Carolk. While he may have left some folks in a bind, he has fleeced no one. That is not "scamming", IMHO. Inconsiderate? Yes. Fraudulent in any way? No.

[lauramw71]

I have to agree with Stella on this one. I DID get what I ordered, when I ordered it, and quite quickly. But I think it's totally shady how he closed up his business. He apparently didn't care about his customers.. at all.. If he did, he would have given some sort of notice. I don't think that any other supplier that closed up shop did so abruptly.. Well, glad you liked my stuff for the little time I was around, but now you're SOL. No, he did nothing illegal.. just VERY unethical. THAT is why I will NOT purchase anything from him again, no matter what name he runs under, or where he sells it. We depend on our suppliers, and there is NO way I would ever come to depend on someone who ran his company very unethical, and without care or concern to his customers. Who knows what he would do from here? I suspect that the whole "I'm building a new warehouse" was a complete lie (just my opinion). There are too many suppliers out there that actually care for their customers to spend any more time or money on his products from a seemingly fly-by-night company. Did he have good products? some, yes.. Did he have good prices.. yes GREAT! But if I can't depend on the company, I'd rather spend a few more dollars on a company I CAN depend on..

[HorseScentS]

Just wondering...is it possible he was purchasing the oils from a manufacturer in Puerto Rico, instead of making them himself?

I really wanted to try "THE Sugar Cookie" and hope to still buy it in the future.

[carol k]

For people in a bind all you have to do is email or call him & he will invoice you & send your oils out. That's what I did. They are scheduled to be shipped out tomorrow.

[kandlekrazy]

I AM surprised that the ebay store was not there, why bother even sending an email to all your customers if you aren't going to sell something? I have to say that I got exceptional service from him when I ordered. The scents I ordered were to replace a couple of Bert's and did not work out for me.

[CaftCandles]

Wow! I left for one day and there has been a lot of talk about the sale of this company.

I just want to clarify a few things based on my communications with Luis. I emailed him as soon as I heard that he sold his company to find out if I would still be able to purchase his oils either from him or the new owner, after all I just invested in his products to improve my own. He told me that I would be able to continue to purchase his oils but I would have to do it on eBay. He said that he "SHOULD" have all of his oils posted on eBay by "FRIDAY" and if I found one that wasn't to please let him know immediately. The "No Compete Agreement" that he sign stated that he could not maintain or sell from "HIS" website which is why he has now gone to eBay. There are still a few things that are unexplained but I am still in communication with him and awaiting his replies. I will have to admit that I was pretty peeved when I heard about the sell due to my new investment and the fact that he made really good oils but I in no way feel cheated. Yes, it would have been nice to know before I spent time and money but when in business you have to expect things like this happening and be prepared for it when it does. That is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful small business owner. Personally I don’t run my business in the same manner as him, if he did sign a NDA he obviously didn’t do any negotiating. The only way I would sign a NDA or a NCA would be under the consideration that they could not change anything that would negatively impact my current customers or employees for the same duration that I am bound to. My motivation is not only money but respect as well. If they violated that condition then I would be free to compete which is exactly what I would do just out of principle.

Now, that being said! I’m not in this for weekend or local market sales, I’m in it so I can stop traveling the world working in countries that should be leveled and abandoned, so I have certain milestones that I have to hit to make this a viable business for me. Due to the poor handling of the sale of “Only Fragrance” I’ve been inspired to contact a major manufacturer that has been around for many years and is stable and offers a huge selection to choose from so I am currently restructuring my whole line or business plan so I do not have this problem in the future. There was a couple of Luis’s FO’s that stood out and now I have the ability to dupe them if I so choose. At least I will have some use for his oils that I have left. I guess I am lucky to be just starting in this industry or else it would have hurt more as I am sure it has hurt some of you. If I get any more information from Luis I will be sure to pass it on.

BTW, I am a he not a she! It’s not that important, just a little weird reading about me in a “she” format. lol

[IwantItgreen]

Does anyone know if Luis' oils were Phthalate Free?

[classiccandle]

My apologies CaftCandles for referring to you as a she. I'm a he too...lol and I know it can be a little aggravating when people automatically assume you're a woman because you make candles. I fell into that stereotype trap too by calling you a she. Good luck in your ventures and I wish you all the success you desire.

[ChandlerWicks]

Thanks for the giggles! Nice, well behaved, informative chatter instead of the BS that sometimes gets in the way on this forum!

My apologies CaftCandles for referring to you as a she. I'm a he too...lol and I know it can be a little aggravating when people automatically assume you're a woman because you make candles. I fell into that stereotype trap too by calling you a she. Good luck in your ventures and I wish you all the success you desire.

[jeanie353]

Thanks for the giggles! Nice, well behaved, informative chatter instead of the BS that sometimes gets in the way on this forum!

[nmhoneybear]

I received an e-mail from him on Monday morning saying he was sending my order (dated November 19th) Priority that very day. I am unable to track it at all so e-mailed him again. Now he tells me he doesn't know if it went out at all, but is checking on it. He said something about getting another box together to overnight to me, but we're talking 11 days now and though he has been responding to my e-mails, I still am a little worried about getting my stuff.

[CaftCandles]

My apologies CaftCandles for referring to you as a she. I'm a he too...lol and I know it can be a little aggravating when people automatically assume you're a woman because you make candles. I fell into that stereotype trap too by calling you a she. Good luck in your ventures and I wish you all the success you desire.

Hey Classic, No worries! That does not aggravate me at all, it just gave me a "Dr. Phil" moment when I was reading about me being refered to as a she. In this cyber world ones animinitie is high and you never are really sure who or what you are talking to. What would we all be without a sense of humor?