Let's Talk about Soy Wax and Temps we Add Fragrance

[TallTayl]

All soy waxes have what seems like similar ranges of temperatures to heat to, add FO, and pour for optimal performance. Most are in the 185 range to melt, 170 range for FO and 140 right down to slushy for pour. Everyone has a magical process to ensure pretty tops. Let's pretend that pretty tops are also pretty insides that do not include cavities.

 

A concerning trend that has popped up now and again, and is now gaining popularity once more is adding FO near the flash point. The idea is that fragrance flashes off if poured too hot, thereby reducing CT and HT. Please, once and for all let's put this idea in a coffin, nail it shut and bury it deep.  Fragrances for candles can take the heat. Many of us use waxes that must be melted to more than 200*F and poured right away with NO degradation of FO. Most of the FO on the candle retail market is also used in cold process soap, which must endure scorching hot lye and a very high pH at the same time with no degradation of throw. We have talked about flash point many times in the past. 

 

Here is the crux of the post this time: SOY WAXES CANNOT ALL SET UP SAFETY AND RELIABLY WHEN FO IS ADDED AT A LOW TEMP. 

Soy waxes are polymorphic, meaning they develop crystals of different sizes and shapes that continue to change for a very long time as they cure. When a wax is not heated hot enough those crystals cannot reach their smallest particle size to make a nice pretty candle top. 

 

If you add a low FP FO, like a lemon with a FP of 120, let's say, those cooling crystals begin to form very irregularly and cannot be guaranteed to hold FO reliably. The cooling wax is shocked with a cold FO, so some larger crystals form quikly, and a chain reaction of more irregular crystals begins.  This results in an unstable matrix that allows fragrance to move around easily, pool and sink to the bottom. 

 

Pro Tip: Once FO is added to your wax, the new flash point is measured by the entire blend. This means if you add 10% of a 100* flash point fo to hot wax with a flash point of say 300*F (would need to look at the safety data sheet for a specific wax to know the exact temp) the new flash point of the wax plus FO will be about 300*F.  

 

Practical Example:

Here is a candle tin made according to the American Soy directions of melting to 140, add FO and pour at 105. It never hardened properly. Look at the grain sizes. I could stick my finger all the way to the bottom and feel the wet FO all along the container. Had I stuck a wick into it I would likely have caused a candle fire when the flame hit pooled FO. This same exact thing happens to every other soy wax in my shop (C1, C3, 464, 415, 444)

 

This tin sat in my shop for nearly 3 months with grains continuing to morph. It mocked me.

Rather than dump it, I scraped it all back into the presto pot and heated to 200*F and poured right back into the tin to cool over night. Here it is today:

There was ZERO loss of CT, in fact it smells more clean and pure than before the reheat. I feel confident popping a wick into this one in a week or two to burn and know it will be a beautiful candle from top to bottom. I know the FO is trapped homogeneously through the entire candle from top to bottom. I will probably use an apple corer to pop a tabbed wick in and can examine the core quality at the same time.

 

Not satisfied with one experiment, I took another tin made at the same time, but with 10% added coconut oil 92. When it was first made according to the directions, the candle cooled with a giant pool of FO on top. When I scraped it all into the melter last night, heated to 200*F, and immediately poured, this is what I found this morning:

The rim ring is from the last bit of cooling shrinking into the middle. I can push on the top and dent (thumb print bottom left) but can feel the soy grains are very tiny and smooth.  No pooling. No FO fade. No sinking. A safe looking candle that I will burn in a couple of weeks.

 

So this made me push the envelope a little. If this can hold 10% coconut oil, what would happen if I put 20% and heated to 200? Look for yourself. 

Shiny, and smooth as a baby's bum. The imperfections are from me poking at it to see how soft it is. I can push but not poke a finger through it. This one does not have scent, so I cannot be certain of what it will hold with that much added coconut oil. That would be another test that I expect will fail in hot weather because midwest soy wax does not have additives that will hold it all together safely at those levels. Instead I'll use it as a baseline test for a candle just for me.

 

Moral of the story: Do yourself a favor and ignore the bad advice to add FO at low temps. At best, your candle will form ugly grains that burn ugly. At worst, the FO will seep, possibly pool and cause a candle fire. Flash point has nothing to do with adding FO to wax. In fact, once added to wax even the lowest flash point FO now has a new flash point that is almost as high as the flash point of the wax itself: 300+ degrees F typically.

 

OK My Candleistas, you are now wicked smart about flash point and will always add fragrances at higher temps now. 

 

[ErronB]

Disclaimer: I don't recommend adding FO at lower temps or experimenting with it unless you really know what you're doing, this is all just my experience.

 

I don't really get a good hot throw from soy at all unless I add it lower, but I'm talking about 160, not something crazy like I see some people. It's been that way for a long time now for me.

 

But the main problem I see is, noobs go from doing this with soy and try it with waxes like 6006 that they 'step up to' and wonder why they get no hot throw, 6006 is like 99% certain to give you a bad hot throw unless you add it at 185-190.  Just looking at the reviews on CandleScience makes me cringe, the staff don't even post their 'advice' they just say 'we'll have someone contact you!' lol. 

 

But weirdly enough, I get better throw from Problend 600 adding FO at 160. I know it has more soy than 6006 but it's still about 50% paraffin so that makes no sense to me really, but I guess whatever works, works.

 

I've also noticed that adding FO's at lower temps I can smell the top notes in some of the scents better. 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by ErronB

[Lizzy]

I have been testing 464 off and on for 3 years now and I do as I do with every wax I have used over the years. I heat my wax to 190 then add my FO (I don't use dye in soy) and stir for a minute or two and pour into room temp containers/jars immediately. By that time the temp has dropped to 160-170. I get mostly smooth tops. When I don't I heat gun the tops.

 

The throw (cold and hot) is hit and miss as it is with every wax out there...I firmly believe that quality FO will give you quality results. There's a few suppliers I won't order from bc their FO's (to me) are subpar.

 

I never understood the whole "adding FO at a lower temp". I started in 2004 with soy wax and even then it was recommended that FO be added at 175, temps be dropped to 110 and poured slushy ( I was using EzSoy) I have tested a lot of waxes over the years and I have never added FO below 170. I was going to try it (not gonna lie) but I honestly don't see how it would thoroughly mix with the wax and it just goes against everything I have learned over the years. LOL

I have seen (in FB groups) that people do add the FO at 120 and then wonder why they have FO pockets throughout their candles. 

 

 

[bfroberts]

I surely don't understand adding FO at low temps.  I have several scents that will not blend in if the wax is too cool.  A couple I have to crank the heat on up beyond 185 to get it to fully incorporate.

I realize that there is some bad info put out there by suppliers, but most of these newbies tend to favor Candle Science and their info overall is generally decent.  I don't understand why someone new to the craft would choose to listen to the advice from random FB, Reddit, YouTube users rather than the actual supplier.  I try to route people here for better info.  

[NightLight]

I always add at 180, otherwise the fo will not incorporate in wax. Making candles is similar to making lotions in some ways. For example if you don’t get your materials at the right temp, the oils and waxes and liquids will not emulsify.

Candle wax is similar. Candle Wax and fragrance are designed to take the heat. 
 

And above Reddit has the worst info. If you want to be amused read the candle forum.

 

I do give the moderators kudos for pinning info about not using flowers crystals etc in candles.

[Lizzy]

I poured these this morning around 5 am.

Same method as I stated above.

464 Soy wax. Heated to 190. Poured out into pour pot. Added FO. Stirred for 2 minutes. Checked temp and it was 165. Poured into room temp jars.

These are my tops. From top to bottom

 

4 oz Jelly Jar

8 oz Square Mason

17 oz Tumbler

 

I can smell them from here....they're behind me on one of my pour tables. CT absolutely stunning!

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Lizzy
typo

[TallTayl]

@Lizzy those look beautiful! 
 

In case there is confusion, i am not saying all soy needs to be melted to 200 or more. I was pushing to see how far this soy wax would let me abuse it, and in the end the candles were better than I could have hoped. In a couple of cases I turned my eyes away from the melter for 10 seconds and the wax jumped to 236*F. All was still perfectly smooth and fine in those. Maybe a short stint at 200 is fine, but a full melter for longer periods would not. All that needs more testing.  considering melt pools often reach that temp I would think making candles at higher temps will not kill the FO for such a short period. 185 for making may be totally sufficient. So could 180.  All of that will take time to test.

c3 gave me an odd smell when I filled the water jacket melter before bed and let it sit overnight to pour in the morning.  It smelled oxidized but performed fine. I could always smell the undertone of old fryer oil. 
 

Quite a few of the new coconut waxes have soy. I read somewhere that coco83 is like 80% soy. How it can be marketed as coconut wax is another discussion, lol. Coco83 and others with soy all need to be heated to 200 to perform optimally,  whether it is because of additives, or just that the base wax/oil molecules like that temp I am not really certain yet. 

I do know that fully dissolving the fragrance component into fully heated and mixed wax ensures your candle is as excellent at the top as it is at the bottom.  We want the entire blend to be homogenous. James Bond got me thinking about that all those years ago with the line, “shaken not stirred.”

 

Bring on the heat, really mix that stuff up, and make some excellent candles My Candleistas. 

[TallTayl]

55 minutes ago, NightLight said:

I always add at 180, otherwise the fo will not incorporate in wax. Making candles is similar to making lotions in some ways. For example if you don’t get your materials at the right temp, the oils and waxes and liquids will not emulsify.

Candle wax is similar. Candle Wax and fragrance are designed to take the heat. 
 

And above Reddit has the worst info. If you want to be amused read the candle forum.

 

I do give the moderators kudos for pinning info about not using flowers crystals etc in candles.

You are 100% spot on about it being like lotions. Typical Emulsifiers are not unlike waxes and wax additives.  They form structures to hang water, oil and fragrance onto. If you shock the blend, odd crystal formation begins and you get gritty lotion and an unstable emulsion. You can’t rush your foundation. 
 

with candles you won’t see the results, often, until some shift happens like a trip through the usps or to a craft show. Wet spots, frosting and pooling/syneresis is a dead giveaway. 

[ErronB]

5 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I surely don't understand adding FO at low temps.  I have several scents that will not blend in if the wax is too cool.  A couple I have to crank the heat on up beyond 185 to get it to fully incorporate.

I realize that there is some bad info put out there by suppliers, but most of these newbies tend to favor Candle Science and their info overall is generally decent.  I don't understand why someone new to the craft would choose to listen to the advice from random FB, Reddit, YouTube users rather than the actual supplier.  I try to route people here for better info.  

 

I have to add some of my vanilla blends into 6006 at about 195 or it doesn't mix into the wax properly at all, so I know what you're saying, but with soy I don't have this problem with adding at 160. Everything about this craft is weird and different for everyone lol.

 

I think people listen to others on places like reddit because they see them first-hand making a go of their business and it seems more 'real' rather than just reading a guide on a website and seeing complaints of inexperienced chandlers in the reviews of the waxes / FO's. Obviously most of these newly self-acclaimed master chandlers don't even understand the serious basics of FO's binding etc, but I think it's just that facade that gets people more excited and believe what they are doing is right.

 

I know people like Jeff Standley will always play the 'what makes you right and I'm wrong' card, and with some things it is true, but there are a lot of things he does that pro's laugh at because they will only work in extremely unique situations like I mentioned at the start, adding FO to 6006 lower than the manufacturers recommendation rarely ever works unless the FO just happens to be one of those that will throw adding it at almost any temp. He think that just because you 'see' it bind to the wax it means that it really has, you and me both know that's not how it 'really' works.

Edited October 27, 2020 by ErronB

[StandleyHandcrafted]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:02 AM, ErronB said:

I know people like Jeff Standley will always play the 'what makes you right and I'm wrong' card, and with some things it is true, but there are a lot of things he does that pro's laugh at because they will only work in extremely unique situations like I mentioned at the start, adding FO to 6006 lower than the manufacturers recommendation rarely ever works unless the FO just happens to be one of those that will throw adding it at almost any temp. He think that just because you 'see' it bind to the wax it means that it really has, you and me both know that's not how it 'really' works.

 

I don't add oil to 6006 at low temps. I've done "test" methods with 464 at low temps but again, not something I recommend. 

[Eirini katselou]

So if I put fragrance in 70 celcium degrees is better for a best strong smell of frangrance?or in lower degrees like 60 celsium ?

What do you think?

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, Eirini katselou said:

So if I put fragrance in 70 celcium degrees is better for a best strong smell of frangrance?or in lower degrees like 60 celsium ?

What do you think?

I would say from my own observations and experience that higher temps when adding fo to soy creates a much more stable crystal structure.  The grains of soy wax are smaller and more regularly shaped when warmer, which allows for more even distribution of the fragrance. 
 

look at the instructions for your particular soy wax for optimal heat target. Most are in the 185*f (85c) temp range.
 

Molecules of all wax types expand like a balloon when warm, and shrink when cool. The cooled molecules trap fragrance. Smaller spaces between molecules = less likelihood of seeping and pooling to the bottom.

[Sweetshoppe]

Hello . I am new to candle tart making and I have a newbie dilemma, lol. I have read the above comments on heating the wax and adding  a FO that has a low FP will not “burn up” the HT. Here is my dilemma. I purchased a para/soy blend for making tarts and was given instructions to heat to 195, add color, then drop to 180, add scent. Well, I purchased a “jolly rancher “ scent (8oz) that had a FP of 154. I used the above instructions and there was virtually no HT when cured and used. I can’t understand for the life of me what happened. It’s like it ‘burnt off” as soon as I added it. At the time I was using 1oz / Lb of wax melted., switched to 2oz per Lb and it still had no HT. The FO was high end (pretty expensive) but I now have not one jolly rancher tarts lol. So could this have been the oil itself because it had a very strong CT? Thanks so much

[Karen Ov]

36 minutes ago, Sweetshoppe said:

Hello . I am new to candle tart making and I have a newbie dilemma, lol. I have read the above comments on heating the wax and adding  a FO that has a low FP will not “burn up” the HT. Here is my dilemma. I purchased a para/soy blend for making tarts and was given instructions to heat to 195, add color, then drop to 180, add scent. Well, I purchased a “jolly rancher “ scent (8oz) that had a FP of 154. I used the above instructions and there was virtually no HT when cured and used. I can’t understand for the life of me what happened. It’s like it ‘burnt off” as soon as I added it. At the time I was using 1oz / Lb of wax melted., switched to 2oz per Lb and it still had no HT. The FO was high end (pretty expensive) but I now have not one jolly rancher tarts lol. So could this have been the oil itself because it had a very strong CT? Thanks so much

Hi. I usually heat to 185 pour fo in and mix it for about 2 min and pour right away. I use 12% of fo for wax melts, 2 ounces for 1 pound of wax..hope this helps

[Sweetshoppe]

Thank you. I started out purchasing FO from eBay, some did good, most didn’t, so I switched to Natures garden. Do you all have a FO supplier that you recommend with a great HT?

[TallTayl]

2 hours ago, Sweetshoppe said:

Hello . I am new to candle tart making and I have a newbie dilemma, lol. I have read the above comments on heating the wax and adding  a FO that has a low FP will not “burn up” the HT. Here is my dilemma. I purchased a para/soy blend for making tarts and was given instructions to heat to 195, add color, then drop to 180, add scent. Well, I purchased a “jolly rancher “ scent (8oz) that had a FP of 154. I used the above instructions and there was virtually no HT when cured and used. I can’t understand for the life of me what happened. It’s like it ‘burnt off” as soon as I added it. At the time I was using 1oz / Lb of wax melted., switched to 2oz per Lb and it still had no HT. The FO was high end (pretty expensive) but I now have not one jolly rancher tarts lol. So could this have been the oil itself because it had a very strong CT? Thanks so much

Some oils are just not compatible with all waxes.  I would check reviews of the fragrance to see if others have the same experience. 

If adding at 180 “burned it all off” it would likely not perform well in a melter anyway. 
 

 

 

[Xersis]

I would love to be directed to a thread (couldn't find it after searching) where someone just tests this. Same %FO, same wax, same vessel, same wick. Do one candle where you add the FO at 140, one at 160, one at 185. See what they look like and then see how they burn. Anyone ever hear results of someone performing a test similar to this? Of course I will try it myself if it hasn't been done, but I would love to hear if it has actually been tested somewhat scientifically instead of a lot of FB testimonies.

 

 

 

[birdcharm]

On 6/13/2021 at 9:07 AM, Xersis said:

I would love to be directed to a thread (couldn't find it after searching) where someone just tests this. Same %FO, same wax, same vessel, same wick. Do one candle where you add the FO at 140, one at 160, one at 185. See what they look like and then see how they burn. Anyone ever hear results of someone performing a test similar to this? Of course I will try it myself if it hasn't been done, but I would love to hear if it has actually been tested somewhat scientifically instead of a lot of FB testimonies.

 

 

 

 

I've read many comments where the poster said they didn't add their scent until wax was well into cool down and they're wondering why they don't have any scent throw or why there are pockets of oil adorning the surface of their candle.  With that, why spend the time to test the wrong way of doing something?  Just do it the way most people who already have experience do it, and be on your way!

[Xersis]

10 hours ago, birdcharm said:

 

I've read many comments where the poster said they didn't add their scent until wax was well into cool down and they're wondering why they don't have any scent throw or why there are pockets of oil adorning the surface of their candle.  With that, why spend the time to test the wrong way of doing something?  Just do it the way most people who already have experience do it, and be on your way!

That's a good point. Ultimately I would be wondering what the range is. Like if I pour it out of my pot at 185 and it cools down to 160, am I still okay? Or if I heat it up to 200 to try and aim for 185 when it comes out, but I pour in the FO at 190 is it okay? Mostly on the cool end though. It makes some sense to me that a cooler temp will keep it from activating as much and will save the scent for when is burning. Especially since you are just trying to blend the wax & oil together.

 

I'm an engineer by trade so I can't help trying to make it a science project! Thanks for responding

[birdcharm]

14 hours ago, Xersis said:

That's a good point. Ultimately I would be wondering what the range is. Like if I pour it out of my pot at 185 and it cools down to 160, am I still okay? Or if I heat it up to 200 to try and aim for 185 when it comes out, but I pour in the FO at 190 is it okay? Mostly on the cool end though. It makes some sense to me that a cooler temp will keep it from activating as much and will save the scent for when is burning. Especially since you are just trying to blend the wax & oil together.

 

I'm an engineer by trade so I can't help trying to make it a science project! Thanks for responding

 

If it cools down a little, it seems that is fine, I'm mostly speaking of permitting it to really cool down, like somewhere below the 150dF range, as I feel that once it gets too cool, it will not have a chance to incorporate fully into the wax. 

[NightLight]

You have to add at 180 degrees to bind with wax. To me hotter is better, and some oils need more heat to be incorporated in wax. Do a test. Cooler you may find you fragrance settling in bottom half of candle.

[TallTayl]

Melt temp is one of several variables.  Some waxes need higher than 180 to “work” properly,  coconut and palm waxes need to get to 200 or better to perform. Quality Candle FO have no trouble with that melt temp.  In fact, many palm waxes often can only hold up t 5 or 6% and must be poured at 200, yet still can fill rooms with scent.

 

Pour temp can be important since some waxes shrink unevenly causing cavities and cracks. Soy wax Im looking at you.  Beeswax, if heated too high and poured too hot will not release from metal molds without a deep freezer and a prayer. Even still it will have massive cavities inside to fill.

 

cooling RATE is important also. Some waxes if cooled too slowly will form large grains (frosting and mushy texture are two types).  Some must be cooled slowly to get the beautiful surface design (crystallizing Palm waxes).

 

every wax is different, along with your environment.  Take copious notes on your stuff to identify trends and spot where tweaks can make or break your candles.