wthomas57

Id have to disagree again. You can have a really hot wick that is still undersized leading to an incomplete melt pool. I wasn't referring to the amount of heat its putting out because of the size. I was referring to the wick type (for example eco burns hotter than zinc). But that doesn't mean its going to get a full melt pool if its undersized. It may just burn the hell out of the wax it is able to reach. I've had this happen a lot with the following (eco, premier, and wood wicks). They all can be so hot that they might actually scorch or discolor some of the wax (or the FO in it) but still be too small to get a full melt pool. Big difference between how hot a wick burns vs proper sizing. Another example of this is with lx wicks. They burn hot too.. but they are also a very tight flame and can still tunnel or lack full MP even though the flame is plenty hot. The problem there is sizing... not the temp of the flame.

Its from the wicks. Happens often. Your wick is too hot for your application. Wick down or change wick types. Zincs rarely ever do it (burn cooler), give them a shot.

I agree, the info you posted is just incorrect. At least currently it is.. There are SEVERAL ways to convince customers parrafin is better than soy. Saying its "greener" is probably not the best tactic. I'd focused on the other benefits.There are LOTS of customers who: - still prefer parrafin because of scent throw - prefer parrafin because of color intensity - prefer parrafin because of mottle candles - or simply dont give a damn if its soy or parrafin. They just pick what smells good or looks good. Lol Dont try to please everyone.

I do both depending on application. I don't really like using 4630 and 464 because I don't like 464. I mean, its easy to use being flake form.... but that is really the only thing I like about it. But that is a personal preference. I l know others who use it and like it just fine. I've never used coconut so I can't comment on that. Just remember as you increase soy %, your list of FOs that work great may go down some. Not a big deal because there are hundreds of thousands, but just sayin'. Also, remember you will also need to wick up generally as you add more soy. Doesn't mean it will be a hotter candle though. For example, when using 6006 , I have to wick up compared to using 4630. But my 6006 candles are cooler than my 4630s.

I know you say you dont double wick which I get. But, often double wicking appropriately can be less heat than one giant oversized wick trying to get a full MP. Also, while I mostly use a parasoy, this is worth mentioning. While soy does require hotter wicks in general, that doesnt' meant a hotter candle and melt pool. The MP and jar gets much hotter with all parrafin that it does soy usually. Soy needs hotter wick, but the wax is much cooler when melting. Just my two cents

Also, I apologize for all the typos, etc in my last big post. I did it from my phone and for some reason not letting me go back and edit again to correct them. But I think you got the gist of it.

I used z60 in my tumbler with CS mistletoe. It works. I am working on improving all my tumblers regarding wicks on ones that dont burn as well as the others. But at least it would get you going. Otherwise, try a CD 12 with it.

Yes I use zincs sometimes. I also use CDs, HTPs, and Premiers. It all depends on the jar and the fragrance. You are going to have a hard time finding a one size fits all. Zincs work great when: - using smaller containers - double wicking larger containers - non heavier fragrances Advantages: zincs are very consistent in their results, great at being cooler than other wicks, and very easy to work with Disadvantages: Sometimes its just not enough wick/heat. I have several FOs in many jars that they simply do not work. OR, I have to wick up so large that the flame gets ridiculous and so does the mushroom. Also, the metal core. While Ive NEVER had a customer comment or complain on any candles I have that are zinc wicked, I prefer not having the metal core myself just because of perception. But its still the most popular wick used in candles. CD works great when: - zins isn't enough - prefer a curl (sometimes self trimming with little mushroom) - larger containers that need a bit more heat - viscous waxes (single pours, parasoys, etc) Advantages - helps where zinc cant, often self trimming/curling. Can handle most if not all FOs Disadvantages - Sometimes can get too hot or sooty depending on application. The curel can lead to uneven melt pools and certain side of jar getting too hot. LX great for: - smaller jars (tight controlled flame) - double wicking bigger jars when needed - great perfect looking flame Advantages: can help sometimes when zinc isn't enough. Tight controlled flame (even burns) Disadvantages: tight tight flame can also prevent enough heat distribution and lead to tunneling if not wicked perfectly. Whereas many other wicks can overcome this problem deeper in the jars, sometimes lx cant. Premiers: - hybrid of the above 3 in my opinion. Consistent like a zinc but more heat like a CD. Can really fill in the gaps where zinc is missing. Advantages: LOTS of incremental sizing to really lock in correct wick size Disadvantages: can smoke and soot a lot if not wicked properly. All that being said, I agree with talltayl. The wicks you used for CD were multiple sizes too big. The LX is tricker. If you wick down you'll tunnel or drown. Bigger it will smoke, soot, and mushroom badly. That is why I mentioned LX can struggle in larger jars (3"+). The zincs will work well for you on most FOs I think, but in that jar it will be at LEAST a z51 if not a z60. If customers dont trim (most want), you will end up with huge mushrooms and soot. Any smaller zinc size and it wont cut it. Shame too because the zincs burn great, excellent melt pool characteristics, etc. You are going to have the best luck in my opinion in those jars with CD and premier. Just be prepared to get frustrated. Wicking isn't easy to begin with. Its even harder using that jar size.

Dont get me wrong.. I love the look. I just see them more as a topper/cover type of add on item rather than a "lid". I think you add a lid (of some sort) and then either raise price a bit to "include" the cover with the candle. Or, as I mentioned, toss one in as a promo for buying 2 candles (or whatever)

Any fragrance yet? I think you are going to run into trouble with that LX14 in a bit with that jar and that wax. Either drowns/tunnels or will get big, sooty, and mushroom badly. So, if that happens to you.... try CDs and Premiers next

Moonshine, I actually specifically didn't go with those lids because they didn't screw on (just sat on top as a cover). Makes it hard to sell. So I hear you on that. Bummer you have them now. Here is what i would do: 1) Use the jars with other lids (flat glass, bubble,etc,) and sell the covers as cheap add on or give them free as a promo for buying two candles or something. OR 2) Use the jars with those lids, but make a thick paper round label with a hole in the middle for the wick as your cover and also sort of like a barrier/seal under the lid. Doesn't practically add anything for you or justify the lid, but makes the candle more interesting which could help you sell them 3) See if they will take the lids back or sell them to someone who uses them. 4) Make citronella candles out of them (may need to use different jars) and use those lids as covers to sit on them outside after each use. Also, if you are struggling with wicking that jar, try double wicking.Id recommend start with 2 CD 7s or 8s as a starting point. If single wicking, you are really gonna have to wick up pretty big. Hope that helps

I also do this

it may be the angle, but it looks off centered pretty far. Or is it to allow it to curl inside to the center? If so, then disregard. I actually think that looks pretty good. Looks to be about a 3" diameter jar. I think its a great base wick to work with.

Agreed... I would change your testing up a bit. Start with one wax (or more than one if needed). Start with no FOs, etc. Try each wax with a few different wicks, based off of recommendations from suppliers or from us on this forum. Also, do a few sizes of each wick type. Start with one jar at a time (IMO). Once you have a baseline for each wax and wick. Go with the one you prefer THAN start doing further product testing. And test regular burns, power burns. Short burns, etc. Just to get an idea of best overall wick and also a feel for your your combo performs under various conditions.

Yep, that is what I was getting at as well. while I support small business (obviously), for my suppliers I have to go with the big guys when possible

I would agree with this. I would have considered using Clarus long time ago if it was offered more places. But its not.. so its expensive but also could be hard to get it when I need it. Yes, Northwood is super small. I think its a candle maker who also started selling supplies. Nothing wrong with that, but I cant use as a serious supplier except for maybe one off things I may like. There are several like that.

Agreed... 2 wicks definitely generates more heat and MP than one single "equivelant" wick.

Northwoods is just a tiny little business by a guy who is pretty much just selling WSP' stuff. Its very hit or miss. And they sell kits and things but not independent parts of the kits. A bit frustrating. Lol They either used to work for WSP or its a tiny startup branch or something. Because literally, they are selling the exact fun kits/tutorials as WSP does. Its mostly Crafter's Choice stuff. Wouldn't use them as a serious supplier any time soon until or unless they grow and get actual stock of products. Just my two cents

by the way, I am also OCD and stubborn... which is why I dont use 100% soy. It will drive you mad and is too finicky. Blends are the way to go in my opinion.

Ha, I thought you may like that. Anyway, there may be a high demand for soy right now, but that may change when customers realize soy candles have been tanking. Lol. I like to use soy in about half my applications as well, so I feel your pain. But sometimes, its better to go with safer more dependable... especially with all the soy issues right now. I dont think any of them are trustworthy. Also, use this time as an opportunity to let your customers know why soy is no better than clean burning parrafin candles. Actually there are lots of benefits to parrafin over soy and you could let customers see those. I'm not trying to push parrafin here as I am not parrafin biased or anything. Just trying to give you other ways to look at and handle the current dilemma. I think you are going to have a hard time finding anyone to offer any soy options right now with any confidence. :/

switch to parrafin. Lol

You are going to get quick FMP and usually deep as well when you double wick vs single wick. (Usually). So I wouldn't be concerned about that too much. ?However, that is awfully deep for just a few hours. Id shoot for about half that. And yes, the eco 10s are too big. I can double wick those jars with 2 Eco 2s. So I would have started there. Now mine isn't straight soy, mine is a blend you you may need ot start with ECO4 or as Trapp said, a couple CD 4s and up. Its hard to tell from the top pic, but you may want to add a tad more space between your wicks as well. 1/8 - 1/4 inch maybe?

I wouldn't say that yet, you still will want to get your own feel and thoughts on them. I recommended them because they are less finicky than others and perform well most of the time. But they are no savior by any means. You mentioned libbey tumblers. Unfortunately, in my opinion those straight sided tumbler jars are the most difficult to wick (at least with 6006). They struggle sometimes being a little too wide for one wick (especially zinc since its cooler) but they aren't wide enough for 2 wicks. They are in no man's land. So they can be challenging. Most my jars are either a tad less wide and use one wick or larger styles with 2 or 3 wicks. With those tumblers, you may be forced to use something like CD or premier, eco, lx, rrd, etc. Zincs can struggle with that width being single wicked. There are large zincs but to keep up with the width of the jar, they really start getting awfully big mushrooms.

I agree with that. But for quite some time, they were constantly out of things they said they had, prices are high (compared to others I use), support wasn't great. I am glad they are coming back slowly with just one main product. But they lost all credibility with me over the past few years. So, I won't be in a hurry to go back. But I do agree.... at least they are now trying.

no thanks for me