wthomas57

I go back and forth on this, here is why: I agree you dont need a FMP obviously that quickly. I also agree most of its BS hype right? But..... part of business is selling to the customer. Can you blame companies like Party Lite and YC, etc for making a product that caters to what customers are asking for. It made them a lucrative business. Same thing with Diamond Candles. Its a crock. Stupid gimmicky tactics, right? Except... its working and they do well. So hard for me to poke at them. If they were concerned with just selling top of the line, premier candles they would be in the luxory candle market. But they aren't. Depends on your target market. That being said I do have some candles that also get a FMP pretty quickly which is my double or triple wicked candles. They get there much quicker than my single wicks do. But... the wicks and flames are also much smaller so they dont get any hotter or bigger or more dangerous than my larger single wicked ones do. I think its all about application. And I totally agree about website disclaimer. Use your site as a way to teach customers and explain why the way your candles burn are better.

My answer: Probably too many. I am in the same boat as you and have a hard time containing myself as well. Just always can justify adding another. Ha! SO many people and they have so many different taste so I try to bring as much variety as possible. Probably a mistake. But honestly, it all depends on the show. Big shows that last a couple days and I have more space and more time... Ill bring more. Smaller shows... less. I think its more important to bring variety of sizes/styles rather than scents though. Thats been my experience so far anyway. I have a show in a week that last 3 days and I am bringing overall about 18 scents. But I have 3 jars styles and wax melts.

I use CandleWick as well for a couple wick sizes and get them the same way. I order all my wicks by the 1000s, but there bag seems extra ridiculous to me. Ha!

Wick looks too big to me. But at the same time, your melt pool looks pretty typically to me for all soy. So... I'd just keep testing to see how it goes. If you are worried about the mushroom and wick getting too big after several burns, try an Eco. In regards to the HT. Hazelnut Coffee is a great seller for me. But its overpowering, incredbly strong! Id use less than 10% for sure. Wouldn't go above 8. If still not getting throw after a full cure, double check your process. May be adding the FO too early or too late.

I wouldn't imagine that most of us are paying that shipping for one bottle at a time though. You have to figure in average shipping and total landed cost when considering the whole order. Sure, if I bought every bottle of oil by itself my price per bottle would be around $35+ too. But that is insane. I plan and buy as much as I can at once. So lets say my average 16oz bottle of FO I buy is $18.... even after figuring in shipping I am still gonna pay less than $20 a bottle. I guess, what I am getting at is.... that I cant believe they would have said their oil was $42 a bottle and they are trying to figure out how to get it cheaper... unless they intended to keep buying it that way. Which is kinda crazy. ANY supplier when buying one bottle at a time is going to be nuts. So everyone has been correct on here. Yes $42 is insane. But yes, for one bottle (plus shipping) that may be normal. But since the topic of this post was about how to lower the cost and they were bothered by how expensive this oil is.... then we have to answer like Clearblack and myself did.....which is: Paying that much for one bottle is crazy. THAT is why her price per candle is so expensive! So I think the clear answer to the problem here is to not to buy one bottle at a time. The more they buy, the cost per candle goes WAY down. The problem here isn't the cost of her FO, its the qty for one shipment.

Not sure if smaller melt pools throw better..... but they scent sure does last longer! And that is why i try to keep my MPs less than 1/4". However, I do have some candles, specifically ones that are double wicked that will get between 1/2" and full inch if left burning 4-6 hours. Wasn't by design, just a result of the best wicks for it led to that result. Which I am ok with, because they burn great. In regards to this.. I think we got a bit derailed here. I dont have issues with soot and/or flames shooting up on my candles. At all. I was referring to some experimenting I was doing similar to what Phoenix was doing were we were keeping wicks self trimmed while burning and NEVER trimming ourselves to see the results. We would notice upon relighting, that even though the wicks were not tall at all, they would still puff and go a bit crazy for a minute before settling down. Its a result of not trimming which we knew and were experimenting. Its definitely not a result of being overwicked. If we wicked down any further, they would drown. But anyway, thanks everyone for the input!

the carbon buildup on zincs for me is not worse than many others. Like you have been saying... its about all wicking correctly. If you do, its minimal. And the rigidity of them is priceless. Perfect even burns all the time. And burn cooler. They are fantastic. The only.. ONLY reason I even try others to to phase out the wire and any misconceptions people get about them. Some people still think its lead (so I hear). Other than that... love them. But its about application. They dont work in everything.

Agreed..... but again, that part that always has seemed so contradictory to me is this: 9 out of 10 say zinc wicks throw the best. Yet, they burn the coolest. So all the talk about enough heat to whip the fragrance in the air doesn't seem to add up. not to mention, zincs are bad about complete combustion and even clogging.... but again, somehow still arguably throw the best. I guess, from everything I have heard is that peoples results and their facts dont seem to add up. So, I just try to wick for the best burn I can and the scent seems to be fine either way (regardless of wick type) if its wicked correctly.

I guess I dont follow.... not disagreeing, just not following. Fragrance isn't released through the wick (at least that is what I've always heard, read, and understood. Fragrance is released from the pool.... so not sure I am understanding. Wax melts release fragrance like champs... no wicks. And again, not disagreeing. I just haven't noticed a difference in scent throw from different wicks in the same jar with the same wax with the same FO. Different jar types... DEFINITELY. My little glass masons throw like a champ regardless. Where as my tumblers not as well even though they are bigger. But Im not using different wicks in there. I think its more to do with the MP, the depth, air circulation, etc. Obviously, with some much mention of different wicks having better "throw", there must be something to it. I just dont cant comprehend what it is, when all the same information says the fragrance isn't released through the wick. I also haven't noticed a different really. If there is one, it hasn't been something I detect anyway. And yes, I know different wax melts perform better than others... usually due to how much heat or size of MP when comparing same FOs anyway. My melts throw and perform great after I've done years of testing and tweaking on them. To be honest, I guess i just WISH wicks werent affecting throw much as its just yet ANOTHER thing to consider when choosing wicks. Which is hard enough as is. Id prefer to simply go with the wick that burns the best with least amount of issues. If that means a tiny variation in scent throw... then I guess so be it.

The lean of the HTPs kills me. Always starts leaning one way and gets uneven but also flat out dangerous when it leans to far. Other than that... I agree.. I like the way they burn. Just too flimsy for me. I guess I have never noticed any lack of throw using LX. To be honest... I've enver really understand the "throw difference with different wicks" argument. The scent throw comes from the melt pool.... so if you get a melt pool... I cant imagine how wicks would make a difference. I mean heck... wax melts have no wick at all, lol. Some people say that certain wicks dont throw as well because they dont burn hot enough. To me, that also makes no sense because nearly everyone says that "zincs give the best throw" yet they burn the coolest. So... I guess I dont follow any of the 'wick and throw' logic. Maybe I am missing something. Anyway, have you tried Premiers, RRD, or ECOs? Premiers - remind me of a mix between zinc and lx. sturdy like zinc but without the wire, burn similar but more soot. but various sizes RRD - I only have a test pack so haven't been able to test them much yet. ECOs - Sometimes amazing.... sometimes terrible

I think we are both pretty close to the same results... although I think a bit different simply due to different waxes. I am using 2530 mottling wax. All my other candles are a parasoy blend. But in these large apothecarys I have found a couple good options (both were double wicks). The zincs did ok, except after several burns the wire would start to stay exposed out the top. Other than that... they were the best. I also am having overall success with LX16 (double wicked again). But.... on a few, they have led to what i referred to in my last post. Its almost a bit.. too small... when burning. But, wicking up doesn't really help, plus burns faster and relighting leads to wilder flames for longer. I tried HTP based off your suggestion... and didn't go well. Either so tiny it drowned, or it was a little crazy if too big. I am about to try and single wick with CD even though I hat those wicks. Just doing it based off a suggestion. Just wish I could find a happy medium between flames too small/nearly drowning and too big so that it soots and is wild when relit. I LOVE not having to trim these things so want to keep it that way. Plus these candles look amazing. Need them to work.

Hey Phoenix, In your testing with the virtually self trimming double wicking..... have noticed the wicks almost stay.. too short? At first, it seemed great. But on a few I noticed the black carbon on the wick that it gets while burning has actually started seeping pretty heavily back into the wax pool. Not because of a mushroom or trimmings falling the wax, but just that the wick is burnind down so quickly that the black part gets beneath the top of the melt pool and its spreads through the liquid wax. Only noticed on light colored candles. But its odd because its burning perfectly. You experienced this? Thoughts? Suggestions?

HOLY COW! $42 FO???? No thanks!. Lol you better buy that by the jugs and drums if you plan to use it and make a profit. I start sweating when it hits $20/lb.

Haven't had it happen.... but maybe they just dont buy again. I'm not sure. That is annoying though. I have some candles that get a full melt pool on first burn without taking a half a day to burn and those are my double and triple wicks jars/bowls. But the wicks also virtually self trim while they burn and require little or no trimming. So they dont get too hot or smoke or anything even on full melt pool with first burn. But none of my single wicked candles get full MP early on.

You numbes dont seem right. What size candle is this.... bathtub size? Lol. But seriously.... Ill use that much for a batch... but my FO cost per candle is around just $0.50. Obviously higher on larger candles, but still. My largest may be around $1.50. No where near $4

Hey everyone, For those of youw ho use zinc wicks in any applications... do you ever have the ones that the the wick is burning down on its own (completely self trimming)... all except the wire in the middle. It seems to not burn down like the rest and it stick up above the remaining wick. Its sharp, which is one concern. But its also ugly and could raise potential questions. I am torn here. Because when I see this, the candle is burning literally PERFECTLY. No soot, no smoke, no mushroom, FMP, not too hot, and self trimming. Its beautiful. BUT...... BUUUUT........ the darn wire still sticking out some. Anyone else have this occasionally? Sometimes, its along with white ashy build up as well. Which makes it worse. I this from being "underwicked" perse or what? How do you combat this? Any suggestions or thoughts? Thanks everyone

That is my issue with HTPs in general, is the leaning over

Pour hotter, cool slower, add correct amount of fragrance and try vybar343 (doesnt affect mottling)

I used to agree with this, but honestly these days most candles off the shelf at any store burn just fine. The double wick works fine most of the time. BUT, when it smokes.. its worse because there is two. And the jars get much hotter. Its a toss up for me right now between single and double wick So, I should have clarified. The wax I am experimenting with is a mottling wax which generally only holds 3-5%. I am using a special vybar that doesn't affect mottling to increase the load to about 6%. Which is working fine. However... mottling wax does occasionally seep a bit if its not done correctly. I thought it could be a culprit. But thought it was less likely. Especially now knowing you dont have seepage and have the same issue. And yes, I definitely agree.... having to still trim to prevent this problem defeats the entire purpose we are aiming for. Ugh. Aggrivating! By the way, which wicks are you using so far with good results double wicking?

Ha. Wow.... I felt like I just read my own journal entry for candle notes reading your reply. .... black stream of smoke going straight up... YES! .... stops after a couple minutes at most (generally) I've also tried several wicks... I get the same results virtually with most of them in regards to burning finer until re-lighting. Eco and HTP seem to burn almost identical for me. I like LX as well. I like zincs except too wide of jars, then they aren't hot enough (plus mushrooming). What really stinks about this is.... if all the soot and smoke comes from simply relighting for a minute or two... it makes the entire jar look bad. It burns great 95% of the time. But that other small amount of time leads to way too much soot! So, what do we do? Because I know for a FACT that most customers don't trim... ESPECIALLY when it doesn't look like it needs it, know what I mean? I have ALSO tried double wicking which has some good benefits, like quicker melt pool, smaller flames, even great burn, less smoke in general. However... when it comes to relighting.. they do the same damn thing (except twice as much. HA!) So do you feel comfortable selling them like this? I mean, they do burn great! Its just the minute after relighting. Sure, we can remind customers until we are out of breath about trimming. But they usually wont anyway, and we dont always see many of our customers face to face anyway. How have you handled this? Here are my thoughts on why its happening: 1) FO seeping on top 2) The burnt/ashy part of the wick isn't trimmed and will act like a small carbon ball on top when lit. So it could be the very fact that just the tiny tip of the wick needs trimmed off and would prevent this.

Yes, CS is no cheap unless you do pallet size... so I order pallets when possible. I have'nt had good luck with bulk apoethcary on pretty much anything. Hopefully they aren't selling you old bad wax. Ill chekc my lots numbers tonight.

Hey all, I have been doing some more recent experimenting outside my normal line. I have been working on trying to get wicks in certain jars (namely apothecary) to self trim entirely. No mushroom, wick burns completely and stays a constant 1/4" roughly. I have been able to do with two waxes: 6006 and 2530 mottling wax. I can get a good melt pool and completely self trimming. Now here is where I'd like some input. So.. EVEN though the wick doesn't need to be trimmed, when I relight it.. it acts like a wick that needs trimmed before being re-lit. It smokes and soots for a good few minutes before settling down. And I dont mean just a little wild flame. I mean... smokes and soots a lot. Just as if I were to have re-lit a candle that had a mushroom on it without trimming it first. So... what the heck? Its already trimmed, I cant really trim it more... maybe a tad I guess. Anyone ever dealt with the smoking and sooting after relighting like this? Not sure the point of a self trimming wick whether it completely self trims or just curls..... if its going to smoke and soot anyway? Thoughts, tips, suggestions? Thanks everyone.

What supplier? I have only used it from CS and haven't had any issues

What wicks did you switch to? I have definitely noticed more soot when blending in a little 4630 compared to just 6006. Some scents more than others. But overall definitely more soot than just 6006.

Blending the 6006/4630 is great in all ways... except sooting. But honestly, when using mostly parrafin I am not sure how you avoid it, especially by the time you add other elements like UV inhibitor, dye and FO. I just think you are gonna get soot. I have been using a blend of 80/20 (20 being the 4630). Now personally, I like using 464 instead of 4630 for the 20% part. It achieves the same thing as adding 4630 which is lower melt point, wicking is a bit easier. The extra benefit is not as sooty. The disadvantage is that takes longer to cure and not QUITE as great of a smooth easy pour with minimal wetspots. Regarding the mottling.. I am combating some of the same issues... being all parrafin, it can get real sooty sometimes. Not sure how to combat it yet. Plus doesn't hold as much FO without sweating. (Nature of mottled candles though). Yankees do it as well.