wthomas57

First one for sure

Yah, I have several old candles that dont get a full melt pool either and are fine for a while without getting too hot. But they eventually (for me) drowned, wouldn't relight, stopped throwing scent, left half the wax in the container by the time it was done, etc. So in my experience, most or all of these I wouldn't consider successful candles. Ive gone through hundreds like this. Surprisingly I have had better results with larger three wicked candles getting less hot with full melt pools, most likely because of smaller wicks/flames and more space and air flow. But while better, I wouldn't say they could be burned extensively and not get super hot. I get what you are saying about not necessarily needing a full melt pool. But eventually, the wax melting needs to catch up otherwise lots of waste wax is left in the jars. And when it catches up, if its too much it drowns the wick. And that is what has always happened to candles I try that are underwicked. Or.. it tunnels leaving tons of wax. But yah, the quck full 1/2 inch melt pool... pretty dumb. It started with companies like PartyLite I think. And the customers ran with it and now expect or demand it often. I dont think a full melt pool in reasonable amount of time is bad or dangerous. I mean... our cup of coffee or hot tea is as hot or hotter than our jars when burning. Now if it stayed that hot for 12 hours and flame kept growing, yep thats an issue.

Totally agree with you on being wicked extra hot to get damn dear instant melt pool. That is plain dumb and yes, that could be a hazard even within the recommended burn time frame, simply because its so hot, so quick. And I also agree containers shouldn't catch fire, lol. But when or if they do (never happened to me or to any candle ive ever used) but its typically because it was burned incredibly long and there was other debri in the candle. Again, outside proper use. And we were mostly talking about the containers getting hot. Thats what the question was about. And yes... as I was responding to that question, if a candle is burned that long.. its going to get really hot. Not sure what else anyone would expect.

I'm not suggesting you dont make it as safe as possible under various conditions... but its unreasonable to expect a flame in a small container to burn for 12 hours and it not get hot. Lol. That's just ridiculous. That is NOT Reasonable expectation for any business at all. I have discussed and researched this much more than you could imagine. I have had discussions with multiple attorneys, insurance companies, and other resources. Businesses, manufactures, or what have.... can not and are not held responsible for issues like this if customers improperly use products in this manner (unless there was something else wrong which isn't what we are discussing). Its just a fact. That doesn't mean we don't try to make them safer under various conditions. But I am sorry... if a customer leaves a candle burning all night long and it melts the surface its sitting on... sorry... not the candle makers fault. Period, end of story. You know what can happen if you leave your stove or oven on for a week? Bad things can happen... its not LGs fault you left it on for a week. Or, you clog your toilet way too much and it backs up causes flooding, water damage, etc. Its not 'American Standard' or "Glacier Bay's fault. Its yours. All products... ALL PRODUCTS... are made to work a certain way. If they are not used properly, it can lead to bad or unintended results. You are trying to convince and hold candle makers (or any business for that matter) to impossible and unreasonable standards. And its just wrong. I used to be completely anal retentive about this issue until I stopped pretending I knew the correct answers and I reached out to those who do. Make your candles as safe as you can... make them 100% safe under normal circumstances for sure! But if you have a customer binge burn a candle and forget about it for a day and it gets "too hot".... sorry, that shouldn't freak you out or concern you.

If your candle isn't hot and uncomfortable after burning several hours then its either under wicked or your lying! Ha! I'm sorry, but honestly.... it has fire in it... its going to get hot! Its normal and expected. I think the concern is if it becomes scorching hot very quickly, then you are asking for trouble. If customers are burning their candles longer than 4 hours (or whatever your warning label indicates), then they are using it outside of recommended instructions. Your candle needs to be completely safe when used as directed. But like any product in the world, risk goes up if you use it improperly. Razors are safe if used properly too.... but not if you try and brush your teeth with them.

Nice... how pricey was that?

Are we talking about just soy or what? I'm not having any problems.... yet (fingers crossed)

I have a lot of people ask if the candles are soy. I say its a soy blend because I use a parasoy. Conversation always stops there and I never have any issues. Also, for the whole candles vs melts thing. There is still a big market for both IMO. I still sell more candles than melts. But I sell both. I use a lot of 6006 and haven't had any major issues like straight soy. I have noticed an occasional different in the wax (as it appears to me) but its never made a change in my candles.. at least not a noticeable ones that require wick changes. Ive had the same with 4630 before though as well which is all parrafin. So I think the risk is there across the board.

I use 6006 for 90% of my candles that I sell. I have no issues with sink holes, etc. I pour anywhere from 170-175. Just need to cool more slowly. Preheating jars honestly made to difference for me. Just cool them more slowly, thats literally it. And I agree with Cindym..... zincs work best even though 6006 is partially soy. And in my opinion, it wasn't even close. I tried EXTENSIVELY all other wicks and always came back to zincs. They stay centered, not as hot, great HT throw, dont lean towards the glass Most consistent. They just work great. Mushrooms are more of a concern to us than customers, they are used to them and for the most part could care less. And if they trim like they are supposed to than its no problem at all anyway. Besides, other wicks give mushrooms too. I also echo what other said about wetspots. Seriously, forget about them. You can make them perfect.. but as soon as they are on shelves or out of your care, they will show up anyways. No big deal. Customers dont care at all. Its one of those things us chandeliers worry about for no reason.

agreed.. its a big pain. And I definitely can tell scents transferring between different melts, its not in my head. My apple smelled like lemon. Lol And yes, the rubbery flex molds due it to the worst so far. unfortunately, they are the best to use in my opinion

I used to do it that way , but was convinced by several others that it wasn't the "best" way. So, I do the other method which is: Take the total finish weight, let's say 16oz. And, then if I want 8% FO take 16*.08 which gives me the part of the total that shouild be FO, the rest is wax. In other words Wax - 14.7, FO - 1.3 for a Total of 16. Honestly, the difference is pretty small. I just find it easier to use this method for batch sizing. I know how much total fill I need for each candle or batch. So its easy to just figure out what part of that should be FO. the other method its not quite as simple as you kind of have to start with a close educated guess. That being said, again, both results are close. I am not really sure what wax manufactures intend for us to do. Its never been clear. They all just say 6% max load or 10% max load. they never clarify what they mean.

I do something similar (in larger jars). Small ones, I just burn all the way. But the issue with your method is that you are warming the whole thing which is just releasing more and more of the FO. So each time you are losing a bit more HT making it harder to compare apples to apples (at least as far as HT goes). However, I do something similar where if I notice I am way off on the wick and its obvious, I will pull it. But Ill just let it harden, poke a hole and insert a new one. So while it did go throughn a burn cycle already, at least its not going through another round of it by warming all the wax again. (Unless, you not warming it that much and I am assuming incorrectly.) But yes, overall I do something similar and think its a good way to test without as much waste.

Hey Ellajoan.... out of curiosity, with your wax and jars.... are you needing to remelt the top with a heat gun or something to smooth them out? The reason I ask is if that is the case..... you are essentially doing an extra burn of the candle. In other words, some FO escapes doing a remelt of the top layer. That would explain why other burns have a better HT than the first one. Its one of the reasons I do EVERYTHING in my power to avoid having to remelt the top or repour. Maybe be small difference, but hey... everything adds up. But sometimes, its simply unavoidable.

I also try to bring a few from each "category" but it all depends on the season like you said. Spring and Summer, I bring htose type of scents (citrus, floral, fresh) and some yer round best sellers. Fall, Its mostly fall scents which tend to do great usually anyway as well as best sellers. Winter, same thing..... holiday scents plus best sellers. I do this with each of my main candle styles as well as melts. Ill have 18 scents this coming event this weekend. So thats not too bad

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear all your hardwork and persistence got you through it!

if you dont mind me asking, what do you do for your other business? And I hear ya... I have to do candles from 10pm to 2am pretty much every day because the rest of the day is completely filled up. Ha!

Nope, not the massive of quantity yet unfortunately. :/ I buy mid range bulk Id say.... FO by anywhere from 2lb - 5lb jugs; wicks by the 1000s, jars by the pallets. but no where need FO by the drum. I cant even imagine selling that much of one scent. I have several scents too so light years away from that I guess. I dont have my own store yet, so no retail in that regard. But sell many direct sort of like retail. My breakdown overall is really close to dead even between wholesale, direct sales, and shows. Shows are the most work by a longshot, but the biggest quick return. What about you?

Actually, sorry... Its about a buck for FO/Wax blend. Just FO is about $0.50

About a buck a candle then roughly

depends on size of candle and type of wax. What size are you talking about?

location of sales matters to. And you are right... its different for everyone. I have only kept reiterating shipping, etc because psoter clearly wants lower costs... not justification for her current cost. If she wants lower cost of FO per candle...they have 3 options: 1) find a cheaper supplier especially in regards to shipping if there is one. 2) find a different oil if it helps or 3) pair it with another oil or other things they may need. #3 is the quickest most effective way to get your costs down. Which is what what all try to do when possible

Well, not sure if that was sarcasm or not....lol. But, not sure I see where the disagreement is here with anyone or the assumption that a quality FO isn't worth it. This post all started with a concern over price of FO per candle... and how to get it cheaper. I answered the question.... buy larger quantities or pair with other items they either may need now or later and lower cost of shipping per items. That is completely normal good business practice. And its also the easiest way to lower the cost of getting that oil. If shipping is the biggest part of the large cost that is concerning them...how is getting the oil somewhere else for a few bucks less helping much? I have yet to see a better answer to their question of how to get the FO cost down per candle. They even said in their post that they want it to be lower. So instead of trying to convince them that they dont need to lower it because there is a martket for people who will buy candles that the higher cost to accomodate that particular oil.... why not tell them how they can get it cheaper like they asked? Shipping. My cost has dropped by over 60% on oils across the board... not by changing oils, but by order management. I realize when getting a new scent or you are small and growing that you cant buy as much bulk as the mid size and large businesses. But my guess is they are going to sell more than one scent. So, Im just suggesting they pair things together and sell some other scents from the same supplier they like UNTIL they have enough business/sales to either afford the extra cost of the FO they like or be able to buy in bulk. I just think its good ordering/business advise. Never knocked the oil itself. i've never used it. But I am personally not going to add a scent to my line that cost me 3-4 times as much as others until I am comfortable enough doing so or can offset the costs another way. The poster made it obvious they wish the cost was lower.

Agreed. But i don't use 10% and wouldn't suggest that. I do just fine with 6 % average. But anyway... i think my point was missed. I wasnt knocking the FO price or saying quality oils arent important. I was saying that the reason for their high cost per candle was SHIPPING. That's it. If they want to get that price down.... Buy in large bulk or order with more items. That's All. Their question was about cost.... not about which price range of oils is better. To get better landed cost and cost per candle.... But in larger quantities. That's it.

Its kind of a rats nest too. I much prefer how CS bags theirs... but hey, cant complain. CW does a good job and they are cheap for a custom wick builder!

Not sure if its the issue or not... but I ddin't like pouring from glass. It does cool much quicker than aluminum pots for example