Who makes a true All Natural Candle?

[HorseScentS]

The devil's in the details, Steve. Palm and soy waxes are MADE from OILS ("made" means they don't start out that way), which are chemically extracted, treated then refined, then have stuff added to them to make them more manageable as waxes. I don't make this stuff up - read the links supplied for yourself. Those oils have to be super-hydrogenated to be hard enough to stick a wick in, for goodness sake!! Soybean oil is liquid at room temp. Palm oil is liquid at temps a little higher than room temp. There is nothing natural about them as waxes except the soybean and palm fruit where those products originate. It's a long journey from there to the stuff that arrives at your house in the bags.

This issue isn't gray at all - it's pretty black and white. Beeswax is wax right from the hive! Bayberry wax is wax straight off the leaves of the plant. Only straining has to be done to clean up the plant residue and debris from those waxes to use them. They are natural waxes. They occur in nature in wax form. The rest are not.

Thanks so much for the links! I can't believe me & my animals have been eating soy meal & oil that were immersed in HEXANE!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexane

[rjdaines]

Thanks so much for the links! I can't believe me & my animals have been eating soy meal & oil that were immersed in HEXANE!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexane

Unfortunately that is true Horsescents, being a vegetarian I was appalled when I found that out. I wrote to a soy food manufacturer and presented this issue, the nice email I got back should a chemical analysis of the final product which indicated that hexane was no longer detectable in the extracted soy protein. Hexane is used in the extraction of the soy protein from the soy meal and is used for products like veggie burgers and textured soy protein. Not to take up any more candle space but there is nothing natural about these modified foods we eat either.

[HorseScentS]

Unfortunately that is true Horsescents, being a vegetarian I was appalled when I found that out. I wrote to a soy food manufacturer and presented this issue, the nice email I got back should a chemical analysis of the final product which indicated that hexane was no longer detectable in the extracted soy protein. Hexane is used in the extraction of the soy protein from the soy meal and is used for products like veggie burgers and textured soy protein. Not to take up any more candle space but there is nothing natural about these modified foods we eat either.

I am AGHAST!!! But, getting back to candle wax & marketing/labeling: I was in the health/herb shop of my licensed herbalist/iridalogist/natural healer, & I noticed a pack of ear candles that said on the label: "Contains 100% Non-Toxic Food-Grade Paraffin, the kind used for wrapping cheese & in chocolate." Pretty convincing! & those ear candles are used by my extremely picky herbalist, who thinks Splenda is almost as deadly as Anti-Freeze.

[jackbenimble]

Pretty convincing! & those ear candles are used by my extremely picky herbalist, who thinks Splenda is almost as deadly as Anti-Freeze.

Mmmmm Splenda. Makes me skinny!

[Candybee]

Natural, to me, means it is found in nature. Palm wax and soy wax are not found in nature, the respective oils are. They are indeed made in a lab or manufacturer plant where they are refined and hydrogenated (a nickel catalyst is involved). That really doesn't smack of "natural" to me. One can claim that the starting materials are natural but the final product is a man-made material; because they are not found in nature.

I like that. Simple and honest.

[Candybee]

..Beeswax is wax right from the hive! Bayberry wax is wax straight off the leaves of the plant. Only straining has to be done to clean up the plant residue and debris from those waxes to use them. They are natural waxes. They occur in nature in wax form. The rest are not.

Debris as in bees knees?!!!

[Stella1952]

Debris as in bees knees?!!!

Exackery. :laugh2:

And I have been trying not to mention that beeswax is bee barf, but I hadda glass of wine and it slipped out...

[Pam W]

Exackery. :laugh2:

And I have been trying not to mention that beeswax is bee barf, but I hadda glass of wine and it slipped out...

don't forget the bee poop!! I know it's hard to distinguish between barf & poop but I also know that it's a lot of work to filter raw beeswax......really time consuming...heat & filter, heat & filter, heat & filter.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Pam W

[Stella1952]

Oh wow - that glass of wine went to my head and caused me to confuse bee barf with bee belly cheese!! My humble apologies to all! Man! I gotta quit drinkin' that stuff...

don't forget the bee poop!!

Thanking you, Pam. I was remiss... not to mention, they WALK all over stuff with their hairy little feets (such as clover flowers that horses and cows and dogs pee on) then track it all into the hive... Botulism is the least of my worries when I slather organic honey on a butter-dripping (organic again) english muffin...

However, you piqued my curiosity, so I did check into whether or not bees poop in their honey & wax (of COURSE she did!) and I got my answer. Here's the first one from the 10 pages of hit results:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2927/do-bees-poop-in-their-honey

"All bees eat is honey and pollen, and (for our purposes) that's all their poop contains. It's probably the least noxious poop in existence and quite safe to consume, at least when it's fresh."

So there you have it. They don't poop in their honey or wax AND it's okay with the author for you to eat it when it's fresh.

I noticed a pack of ear candles that said on the label: "Contains 100% Non-Toxic Food-Grade Paraffin, the kind used for wrapping cheese & in chocolate."

There's something VERY disturbing about all that... ear candles, cheese wrapping, ear wax...

Hexane is used in the extraction of the soy protein from the soy meal and is used for products like veggie burgers and textured soy protein. Not to take up any more candle space but there is nothing natural about these modified foods we eat either.

You can have mine, OK? Sorry, but I'm not eatin' that crap. My body is a temple. I get my petrochemical-laced proteins from the all-natural Gulf of Mexico as Mother Nature (and BP) intended, thankyouverymuch. Speaking of sea protein, I like my oysters chargrilled so I get my carcinogens from the charcoal around the edge of the shell (extremely tasty!) at the same time...

Now THAT'S good all-natural eatin' yeah...

Sorry... I digressed...

almost...wait, I got it now...

...especially by the pleasing light of an all-natural beeswax candle.

There. I brought it around to on-topic.

And they said it couldn't be done... muahahahaha!

[beekeeper_sd]

1. Bees are extremely hygienic. They will get dissentary and die before they will poop in their own hive.

2. Beeswax and/or honey is NOT bee barf or bee poop. Beeswax is created by a small gland on the under belly of bees. Honey is simply nectar that the bees collect from flowers then stored in their hive. If you consider this barf, then you must also consider cow's milk (and for that matter, mother's milk) as an excrement.

[Stella1952]

I'm sorry, Carol - I was being silly and facetious and in no way did I mean to deprecate beeswax nor should any of my remarks have been taken seriously. I think it's da bomb and stand by my assertion that it is the only wax, along with bayberry, that can truly be called a "natural wax."

I'll take bee anything over the stuff that goes into other waxes to force them to work in candles only partially as well as beeswax does after simple filtering. It's the best wax out there, IMHO.

Cow juice and Mamma juice - don't get me started! There's more industrial pollutants in both than there is in honey or beeswax!!

Again, I do apologize. I was just being silly and I hope NO ONE took my remarks about beeswax to heart..

Edited May 28, 2011 by Stella1952

[beekeeper_sd]

No offense taken, just have heard enough people making those assertions that it gets old and once someone gets started on it, it just goes on and on. Can't tell you how many customers have told me honey is bee barf. WHATEVER! I myself wouldn't think of using anything but beeswax and do believe it is the only natural wax (don't know anything about bayberry)

[Stella1952]

wouldn't think of using anything but beeswax and do believe it is the only natural wax

I respect your choice and understand how difficult it must be to hear your wax be the butt of jokes. IMHO, your comfort lies in knowing that you are right: you ARE using the only reasonably priced natural wax. Too bad for the rest of us that we have to argue and poke fun because the stuff we use doesn't measure up to what Ma Nature provided.

[EricofAZ]

So a definition needs to be adopted for "natural."

Dinosaurs were natural, thus Paraffin is natural. Right?

One dictionary says, "existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge."

Artificial is, "made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers. "

So in that definition, the only natural candle is a tree hit by lightning.

Edited May 29, 2011 by EricofAZ

[rjdaines]

Suppose so, since candles are not found in nature. One can then talk about the components of the candle as being "natural" or not, which is what we have been talking about.

[Stella1952]

So a definition needs to be adopted for "natural."

Dinosaurs were natural, thus Paraffin is natural. Right?

One dictionary says, "existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge."

Artificial is, "made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers. "

So in that definition, the only natural candle is a tree hit by lightning.

We have covered this ground. In reply#7, I gave a link to an organization that's ahead of the curve in the attempt to define "natural" in terms of products and ingredients. Here's the link again in case you missed it:

http://www.naturalingredient.org/naturalingredients.htm

[Candybee]

I just scoured my website and labels and did not find the words 'natural wax' written anywhere in my descriptions. Reading through this thread made me take a fine tuned look at my marketing verbage. Thats because I know I too sometimes fall into using that all too common jargon and hype we see and hear all the time when it comes to 'natural' waxes. Even our suppliers and customers use it so much its easy to get taken in.

The point is I was pleasently surprised that the description of characteristics of the wax I use in my copy in lieu of the false marketing buzz words sounds so much better. For those wondering-- yes I write my own copy so I know what I write. But sometimes you right it and tend to forget about it (especially if you are a senior with a senior's brain) and need to revisit it from time to time for accuracy, typos, etc with a fresh eye.

[coconut]

From Dictionary.com

Reading definition #7, perhaps there is no natural candle at all as even beeswax and bayberry must be boiled to extract clean usable wax. But boiling may be considered little processing. Looks like palm and soy wax are no more natural than paraffin.

nat·u·ral   

[nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl] Show IPA

–adjective

1.

existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.

2.

based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.

3.

of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.

4.

of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.

5.

in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.

6.

growing spontaneously, without being planted or tended by human hand, as vegetation.

7.

having undergone little or no processing and containing no chemical additives: natural food; natural ingredients. Compare organic ( def. 11 ) .

8.

having a real or physical existence, as opposed to one that is spiritual, intellectual, fictitious, etc.

9.

of, pertaining to, or proper to the nature or essential constitution: natural ability.

10.

proper to the circumstances of the case: a natural result of his greed.

11.

free from affectation or constraint: a natural manner.

12.

arising easily or spontaneously: a natural courtesy to strangers.

13.

consonant with the nature or character of.

14.

in accordance with the nature of things: It was natural that he should hit back.

15.

based upon the innate moral feeling of humankind: natural justice.

16.

in conformity with the ordinary course of nature; not unusual or exceptional.

17.

happening in the ordinary or usual course of things, without the intervention of accident, violence, etc.

18.

related only by birth; of no legal relationship; illegitimate: a natural son.

19.

related by blood rather than by adoption.

20.

based on what is learned from nature rather than on revelation.

21.

true to or closely imitating nature: a natural representation.

22.

unenlightened or unregenerate: the natural man.

23.

being such by nature; born such: a natural fool.

24.

Music .

a.

neither sharp nor flat.

b.

changed in pitch by the sign ♮.

25.

not treated, tanned, refined, etc.; in its original or raw state: natural wood; natural cowhide.

26.

(of a horn or trumpet) having neither side holes nor valves.

27.

not tinted or colored; undyed.

28.

having a pale tannish or grayish-yellow color, as many woods and untreated animal skins.

29.

Cards .

a.

being a card other than a wild card or joker.

b.

(of a set or sequence of cards) containing no wild cards.

30.

having or showing feelings, as affection, gratitude, or kindness, considered part of basic human nature.

31.

Afro ( def. 1 ) .

–noun

32.

any person or thing that is or is likely or certain to be very suitable to and successful in an endeavor without much training or difficulty.

33.

Music .

a.

a white key on a piano, organ, or the like.

b.

the sign ♮, placed before a note, canceling the effect of a previous sharp or flat.

c.

a note affected by a ♮, or a tone thus represented.

34.

an idiot.

35.

Cards . blackjack ( def. 2b ) .

36.

Afro ( def. 2 ) .

37.

(in craps) a winning combination of seven or eleven made on the first cast.

38.

a natural substance or a product made with such a substance: an ointment containing mink oil and other naturals.

[Wessex]

Looks like I am going to have to redo my labels. I, too, fell into the commonly accepted practice of using the term "natural" when refering to palm wax. Pretty much did not research it deep enough. I guess the only thing that makes me feel a little better is that I never really pushed the candles as "buy them because they are natural", but as "buy them because they are sustainable (lets not get into that one!) and look cool and make a great candle". Now I am going to have to go back through everything I ever wrote, labeled, etc to make sure nothing is misleading. At least I never intentionally misled anyone, so that makes me feel a tad bit better (but not much, I screwed up and did not research it deep enough). At least I don't label my products organic, LOL.

Hanging my head in shame,

Steve

[jackbenimble]

All my labels still have the word "Natural" still on them but I can't afford to replace them so when I order next I'll change them but as Wessex said "I screwed up and did not research it deep enough." I have however gone over my website and fixed a few things. For now that will have to do.

[HorseScentS]

It's weird that "Natural" has come to mean "non-toxic" & "healthy" considering that the following substances are also "Natural": arsenic, rattlesnake venom, bella donna, nightshade, opium, black widow spider venom, crude oil, tornados, lightning, etc...

[rjdaines]

It's weird that "Natural" has come to mean "non-toxic" & "healthy" considering that the following substances are also "Natural": arsenic, rattlesnake venom, bella donna, nightshade, opium, black widow spider venom, crude oil, tornados, lightning, etc...

The power of marketing. At one time "natural" had a negative association, plastics was all the rage for example, people shunned "natural" products for the modern, plastic replacements; who wanted paper bags 15 years ago. My mother was told that breast milk was "bad" for me and the new formulas were superior. Natural child birth was even unpopular for a time in recent history. It's all marketing.

[Brad Ford]

GW 402 is certified Kosher. I'm going to order some and see how it works. I don't think things have to be natural to be kosher, but they do need to be reasonably pure and it makes me wonder why no other wax was certified this way.

Most of all the facilities in North America that would offer products for candle use are certified Kosher. If a product manufactured has a chance of ending up in any type of edible product, most all manufacturers will have their plants certified as Kosher. Most all food/ingredient companies require the wax products to be Kosher. This includes paraffin and micro-crystalline waxes as well...

[Stella1952]

If a product manufactured has a chance of ending up in any type of edible product, most all manufacturers will have their plants certified as Kosher.

Thanks, Brad.

To expand - people (both consumers and manufacturers alike) desperately need to understand that Certified Kosher and USDA Certified Organic products are terms used for EDIBLE products and are not pertinent to other types of products. "Kosher" and "USDA Certified Organic" are not terms which are applicable to candles as they are not edible products. The use of those terms in candlemaking indicates "greenwashed" marketing hyperbole.

For example, a shirt made from USDA Certified cotton fibers does not designate a higher quality of cotton fabric. It simply means that the cotton used in the fabrication of the shirt and thread (not buttons or other closures) was grown using USDA Certified Organic methods. It is NOT an indication of quality or "purity." A wax made from oils which are chemically separated (hexane) or from GMO seed stock cannot be certified organic. 98% of all soybeans grown in this country are from Monsanto-engineered GMO seedstock (RoundUp Ready). One does not, in any case, eat the wax.

Using the European REACH standards for materials is (arguably) more meaningful to this application.

REACH is the European Community Regulation on chemicals and their safe use (EC 1907/2006). It deals with the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemical substances. The law entered into force on 1 June 2007.

The aim of REACH is to improve the protection of human health and the environment through the better and earlier identification of the intrinsic properties of chemical substances.

See links below for more information about REACH standards and compliance:

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/chemicals/reach/reach_intro.htm

http://www.astmnewsroom.org/default.aspx?pageid=1420

http://wko.at/up/enet/chemie/REACH-Standard_Questionnaire.pdf

http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2725.htm

[chuck_35550]

Well I don't know about Kosher but the next time you pick up a major name brand candle...tell me if it even states the type of wax used or any other ingredient. Don't make any claims and let the consumer beware and make their own decision about the purchase. We're gonna fool around and run ourselves out of business over this stuff. I never have given two hoots or a holler about whether my candles were enviromentally correct. All that stuff shifts like sand and what was once safe yesterday causes cancer today. Most people use paraffin for the bright colors they can get and most people use soy for the challenge and then the rest of us use a blend which is the best of both worlds.