Truly thinking of quitting

[Oceangazer1]

Hi everyone,

I'm not looking for encouragement or even sympathy. I've been at this candle thing for 7 yrs. I have tested thousands of dollars away. The testing is like a nightmare. I'm not happy with Anything except for Maybe my pillars and votives, for now anyway. I can't stop trying different waxes and wicks, yes I have notes. But I'm still confusing myself, because I can't stick with anything.

I've used paraffin for many yrs and thinking of going to all soy for my containers to reduce the soot factor. I don't think I am going to go to all soy for pillars because I am too addicted with all of the different ways the wax turns out when I demold it. Heart races! I don't smoke, drink, or gamble, but I am very addicted to this and feel like I should quit, but I don't know how. I think about how to make my candles better all the time. I also don't have the money to market, or promote my candles. The money I spend on insurance equals my sales in most cases. I have a couple return customers. I have had very few compliants and have always done everything to remedy it. I just don't get diehard return customers. After all these yrs, I feel like it should be so much more.

I have a website that I have consistantly submitted to search engines, and have no business from it. I know the candle market is saturated, which is why I just don't think I'm going to make it. There is one thing on my site that I have and do get orders from occasionally, just not candles.

I haven't given it my all, because I just don't have the money! It would be cheaper to buy from other local candlemakers, although not as fun! The two shows I do a yr, folks are always asking for soy, so I'm doing the Perfect Blend which is mostly soy for my jars. I do miss the throw I got from paraffin...knock you down. I don't get that with PB. Anyway, I'm depressed over this! Does anyone else have the same problems?

[Vio]

Where's your website? Just curious because it's not listed in your sig or your profile.

[2rottndogs]

I can understand being discouraged. This is hard work. I remember saying here that all I wanted to do was, "wick the damn jar, pour the damn wax and burn the damn candle!"

My Dad died 3 months ago and it still feels like yesterday. I missed the Autumn season... didn't get Christmas candles going until November, and to top off my misery... I didn't get to the problem jars I've been testing until now because I was having so many problems dealing with the death of Dad.

I kept having clients asking about Christmas candles in September and October. It's just not good for business to tell people that you don't give a rat's behind about the candles they want.

You've been doing this for a very long time... maybe it's just time to take a break for awhile... reevaluate the reasons you started making candles, weigh the pros and cons of stopping or continuing... maybe it's just time to overhaul the entire career and see if you can get back on track after a break or if you'd even want to get back to making candles.

Good luck with your decisions.

Kim

[Bev]

I understand your being discouraged. I've also had a bad year ... I had reconstructive foot surgery this summer, which kept me off my feet for several months. I wasn't able to pour candles or do much of anything during that time, and because of that I also didn't market my business. To be honest, I feel the same way you do. My website has only gotten me two online orders the entire time it's been operating and with all the months I was not involved in my candle business, it's been very difficult to get enthusiastic about it again. I keep thinking once I'm back to "normal" again (whatever THAT may be), I may gear up again so I won't make any decision about the business just yet. 2RottnDogs, you just suffered a loss, so it's understandable that your candle business isn't top priority at this time. Give it time and see how you feel several months down the road.

[Gdawg]

it is frustrating at times, I have had to take months of time out cause I was so done. The testing is endless and the money flies out my rear but I am determined to get a perfect one lol. I am so close I can taste it with one of my jars. Of course I feel nothing is perfect and if it was up to hubby I would be selling them now but I told him I am not ready to sell cause I want ot to be right not rushed

[topofmurrayhill]

If you were happier with your products, would you have more confidence in the potential to sell them? I'm just wondering if the problem is not so much the work and money you've put in, but not being able to achieve what you wanted to with it.

[Stella1952]

This is a tough business. You must make a certain threshold of sales for it to pay for itself, otherwise it is a hobby. If it pleases you to have a hobby business, whether it makes money or not, it is worthy. You don't drink, smoke or gamble, so what's wrong with spending money on an avocation you find rewarding? For some folks, everythng is all about the bottom line - a profit; but for others, the enjoyment of candlemaking factors in with the bottom line. Unless you cannot afford a "hobby," the lack of a large profit is NOT the end-all and be-all. Just my 2¢...

And it keeps you outta the bars and casinos, so how bad can it be?

[Jeana]

If you were happier with your products, would you have more confidence in the potential to sell them? I'm just wondering if the problem is not so much the work and money you've put in, but not being able to achieve what you wanted to with it.

I agree. When I absolutely love one of my products, it is reflected when I talk to other's about it. People are much more likely to want to buy what you are excited about. Your enthusiasm is the best marketing tool.

I'm not 100% percent into selling my stuff right now, I'm still trying to decide if I want to go this way. I have noticed some things I needed to change about myself if I was to start selling, in order to be more successful. Maybe some of these ideas will help you.

First, I needed to stop being such a perfectionist, this helps me enjoy what I am doing much more. Occasionally I buy a store candle to remind myself mine are just as good or most of the time better than mainstream candles. So I'm getting better at not being so hard on my products. People don't notice half the stuff we do.

Second, is I've been scaling waaay back on how many scents I work with and how many different products I am making at one time. This helps me to not feel so frustrated and I feel like I have it together better. It also means way less testing.

The last thing I have learned is to be more decisive. I'm trying to get better at making decisions on waxes and scents and just sticking with them, regardless of the newest wax and scent rage coming around.

Most of us have spent a bunch of money on candles and body care items before we started making them. Now, the money is spent on the raw materials to make the items. I bet it works out fairly even for most of us in the end.

HTH some.

[topofmurrayhill]

Just to run with that a little bit...

Things can be easier when you're satisfied with an average result. Even then it can be a lot of work. When you imagine a really excellent product, perhaps better than what you've seen, you can't overestimate the amount of work involved. People say test, test, test but I'm not sure how many understand what that really means.

It's a given that this is going to take a lot of time and money. The crucial thing is feeling that the investment has resulted in the products you envisioned, or at least that you're on the road. However, it's easy to misjudge the difficulty of dealing with the variables. Small changes in the design can make a big difference in your results and it's not always predictable. It's easy to get confused.

If you put in a lot of effort but find yourself lost, it might be time to step back from working on products and instead work on a methodology for developing products. You need a process to follow that guarantees you'll inevitably reach your goal without getting too confused along the way.

I find two things are required for that. One is a very organized plan for methodically and incrementally exploring the variables. The other is a really meaningful way of recording the results. Not just notes, but all the relevant data for each tester and each burn in quantitative form. Something you could possibly plug into a spreadsheet. Plus think about everything that makes you happy (or not) about the performance of the candle and make sure it's recorded somehow, preferably as a number. After each tester is burned you should be able to paint a detailed picture of how that candle worked no matter when refer back to it.

A system like this will let you accumulate a database showing the effect of changing different variables and allow you to find your way to the results you want.

I don't know how relevant these thoughts are to you, but hope it helps in some way.

[Sharon in KY]

One is a very organized plan for methodically and incrementally exploring the variables.

What the hell does that mean? When your base (wax) is not know to you (the exact ingredients) and is changing all the time, how do you really know the variables?

Oh, I know what your saying but don't think it can be done. I think I'm going with "HomeMade Soy Candles no two are alike"......

[AAngels]

Is it your true passion?

If it is then stick with it.

I have been selling candles for about 6-7 years. But I did it for other companies. But this past year ventured out of my own. I just love it!

I sell only soy. I tested for a bit, but not as long as many have here. People love the idea of hand poured. R u marketing yourself?

When I found what I was looking for I just stuck with it and don't change it up. Even certain candles didn't turn out just right and people like them anyways. For instance today I had someone come over and look at an Apple Jack one I did, and it was frosty and they thought that was just great!! Some people don't know the difference, they thought it looked cool. Like a 70's looking candle.

I basically sell to my day time clients(which I am a nail tech.) and craft shows and word of mouth. I have a brochure I hand out where ever I go.

I think a lot of people put to much pressure to make the perfect candle.

Not everything is perfect and not all people know the difference.

Just as long as the scent is good and they burn well in your jars and they look good with labels and all. That's what counts to me.

Don't give up if it's your passion!!!

Kathy

[Violetsexoticcandles]

I have had these very same thoughts this week, because indeed, the market is saturated... it's expensive to market, time consuming to do so, as well as test every scent and wax you want. I've also come to the conclusion that I've really expanded way to fast and am tightening my products down to a few that I know sell. It's hard this time of year, though, when everyone wants holiday scents. But, that being said, if you can mix and blend, find something unique, whether it's a scent, shape, size, etc...

Just a thought I've been having. I've definitely learned a lot doing this. I can't get the bug outta me, though, so I'll continue. But although I filed as a business owner last year through my county, I'm considering it a hobby- something that keeps me enthusiastic. It seems whatever sales I do make are spent on more wax, FO, etc... But hey, I enjoy it. And to me, having gone through a lot in my life (bad relationship, divorce), if it makes me happy, I can't be sad.

Now if I can only get back to writing again.

Do what your heart tells you and try not to let anything get you down.

[Violetsexoticcandles]

Just to run with that a little bit...

Things can be easier when you're satisfied with an average result. Even then it can be a lot of work. When you imagine a really excellent product, perhaps better than what you've seen, you can't overestimate the amount of work involved. People say test, test, test but I'm not sure how many understand what that really means.

It's a given that this is going to take a lot of time and money. The crucial thing is feeling that the investment has resulted in the products you envisioned, or at least that you're on the road. However, it's easy to misjudge the difficulty of dealing with the variables. Small changes in the design can make a big difference in your results and it's not always predictable. It's easy to get confused.

If you put in a lot of effort but find yourself lost, it might be time to step back from working on products and instead work on a methodology for developing products. You need a process to follow that guarantees you'll inevitably reach your goal without getting too confused along the way.

I find two things are required for that. One is a very organized plan for methodically and incrementally exploring the variables. The other is a really meaningful way of recording the results. Not just notes, but all the relevant data for each tester and each burn in quantitative form. Something you could possibly plug into a spreadsheet. Plus think about everything that makes you happy (or not) about the performance of the candle and make sure it's recorded somehow, preferably as a number. After each tester is burned you should be able to paint a detailed picture of how that candle worked no matter when refer back to it.

A system like this will let you accumulate a database showing the effect of changing different variables and allow you to find your way to the results you want.

I don't know how relevant these thoughts are to you, but hope it helps in some way.

Top, you sound like a statistics professor, and no offense, but it's hard for some people to understand. I took it for my MS and I can understand it to a degree, but a lot of people may not. Even then, it makes my head hurt thinking about variables (too much time spent in stats!!!). We don't all think in numbers.

I take very detailed notes on most things I'm working on- like, for instance, palm candles- they are very hard to wick. Or a new soy wax. I write down the wax, FO, scent, wick, size of jar or pillar, etc... I take everything I can think of, every variable, into consideration. Write everything down.

I'm a bit disorganized, so sometimes, I write it down on scrap paper and staple it into my notebook. But in the end, if I go months without testing that particular candle, scent, wick, wax, etc., at least I've got my notes. And something to go on.

Like my English mentor told me, KISS. We cannot all think like Einstein, nor can we all converse about the meaning behind Milton's Paradise Lost. But in this forum, we're chandlers.

I don't think Ocean wants to discuss variables, at any rate. I think that Ocean is worried about the money put into the business, which can, if one is not careful, become exhorbitant.

Also, I've never been happy with average, when it comes to me or anything I produce. I can't see anyone who really cares about their end-result being happy about being average. Those who really care will soar above the average, yet still, depending on those variables you mention, be unsuccessful.

I don't know.. most of us don't run to the computer to input numbers in order to gauge success or failure. I know when I'm spending more than earning...

A lot of people would not know how to build a database to measure. If you have one designed, perhaps some may be interested, purely for the sake of measuring.

I work in research and work with numbers every day. Numbers can only say so much...

[topofmurrayhill]

Who knows Violet how relevant it might be. When we spend the money and put in the effort and still don't have the thing we were envisioning selling, it can be discouraging and demotivating.

Most people here know about variables. It's the things you can vary and test. And most people know that you're only supposed to change one thing at a time and take notes. I didn't do it much differently than anyone else. The only thing that made me take it further was desperation.

There was this one particular candle I really wanted to design. I knew exactly how I wanted it to perform and be different from other examples I'd seen. I had a lot of variables under my control -- I was in a position to tweak the wax blend, I could use different types and sizes of wicks, I had multiple additives that could potentially help, and each additive could be used at some percentage or not used at all. At first I took what I thought was an educated guess at a starting point and worked from there. But I found that I could make small changes that would have a big effect and I didn't understand why the candle burned a certain way when I changed something.

After expending a lot of time and materials, I realized I needed to come up with an approach and some tools to get anywhere. It was really just the same thing we normally do, but in a more detailed and disciplined way. It wasn't even about the numbers so much as turning it into pictures so I could see visually how particular a tester burned and how changing something would affect it. In the end, I got what I wanted but the formula was nothing like I originally expected. I never would have figured it out without testing so methodically.

That's not to say you have to do it the way I did or that it has to be elaborate. The idea is just to come up with a testing and record keeping approach that ensures your efforts will get you from point A to point B with whatever you happen to be trying to make.

[Oceangazer1]

Kim, I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine, and I dread the day. I thank everyone for your posts. Well, I do have one more show this season on Saturday and I will see what happens. I've been trying to print out my business cards and what happens??...something is awire and it's not printing correctly, so I'm not going to have business cards for my show!!

Thank God I have a real job or obviously I could never keep this up, just at the small rate I am. I DO have to keep telling myself that less is more and I don't need to be testing so many different waxes, wicks. I have pretty much been through every paraffin in the market including mixing my own blend from straight paraffin, now only to see and hear soy is more desirable so switching to that now, just for jars! You have no idea how many people ask me if my candles are soy! So right away, I have to change with the market.

Money is the main factor in this. I wish I could have the business cards, labels, brochures(which I don't have by the way, because I change things too much!!), printed, but it's way too costly. You just need Alot of money for this to take off obviously with the bulk of it testing. *Stella LOL, I think it may drive me to drink* :DJK, but I'm still unsure of what I'm going to do. Hopefully after my show and things slow down, I will time to really give this alot of thought and make a Final decision! Thanks everyone!

[CareBear]

Not to get off topic, but Top I appreciate the language you use and the approach you take. Your communication is very concise and unambiguous. Please don't "dumb it down" - if you speak more loosely your information is less accurate and less helpful. To me at least.

Violet, different folks have different communication styles. Tops is pretty technical at times but it works extremely well for me, and judging from the number of folks he's helped I do not think I am alone. If someone doesn't understand they should simply ask for clarification.

Systematic - the only way that is going to work - for me. A year ago I dipped my toe into the pool but hopped here and there trying things different people recommended instead of simply making a plan and following it through. What I've found is my best use of this forum is to ask for help in deciding on a starting point, and then following a logical plan. When I tried what person A recommended and then jumped to what person B recommended and so on there was a lot of frustration but little learning. I wasted money on various containers, different waxes, etc. By taking the systematic approach not only will you likely reach your goal sooner, but all the learning along the way will be great information when you try the next FO or whatever.

And drinking helps a lot.

[AAngels]

As far as marketing goes, I do it myself. I print my own brochures and cards. It takes a bit of time, but it's less expensive to do it yourself. This way you can change whatever you need to.

Good Luck with your decision;)

[Oceangazer1]

Hi Angels,

Can you tell me what printing software you have? Mine is Smart code studio free, but it would print business cards or anything multiple on one page. I also just have a plain ink jet printer.

[birdieluvr76]

Hi Angels,

Can you tell me what printing software you have? Mine is Smart code studio free, but it would print business cards or anything multiple on one page. I also just have a plain ink jet printer.

I know I am not Angels, but I use Word to make my biz cards and brochures. My biz cards came with the template numbers that were compatible with Avery, and I used that. The brochure template I got from microsoft.com.

HTH

[kandlekrazy]

I think we all go through periods of depression about what we're doing, but try to remember why you started doing it in the first place...most likely it's because you really enjoyed making candles.

As far as the expense, try to scale back on scents and products. To save $ on business cards. I bought a package of cardstock (you can get plain white, pastels and brights at Wal Mart to get you started) and printed using a business card template in Word. I have a paper cutter and I use that to get them to the 2 x 3 size of the template. It saves tons of $ as you can print 2500 cards with a pkg of paper that costs around $3.50-$4.00 versus buying "business card" stock (Avery or other) where you get 100 cards for $5.00.

The only other suggestion that worked for me when I was spending too much and not making it back is...if you don't have self-control...Stay off this board. For a while I found myself wanting to try everything that anyone suggested worked great for them....I had to take a step back and realize that I was wasting time and $ and just needed to work with what I have.

I also sold lots of candle stuff that I wasn't using on Ebay...no you won't make a killing on it, but it will certainly pay for your wax or fo orders for a month or two...every little bit helps.

[kimmeroo]

I know exactly what you all are talking about! I am just getting back into candlemaking from taking a 2 year break! I just got soooo discouraged and thouht I have to take a step back and relax! i did, now my business is starting to pick up..I have a few wholesale accounts and i only do one large show..so far...I don't want to get to be a huge retailer..I just love making them and I can't burn as many as I love to make! I hope that made sense! LOL!

I do only 3 styles of jars,but I let all my customers know I have access to just about any style jar and if they were interested i would order the jar and test the candle before I sold it.I have had a couple ppl order who were willing to wait..but most ppl want the candles NOW!Then i tell them they will just have to settle for the jars I already offer! They all love the 8oz.sq. masons!!

Anyhow...I don't know if I could part w/my business!Good Luck to you!!

Kimmeroo

[TheQueen]

I don't have much to add that others haven't said much more eloquently than I ever could, but I want you to know I'm thinking about you and hope you can get this worked out so YOU are feeling much better about it all. Whew, that was a run-on sentence, wasn't it?

Buck up, Girlie, with a margarita in one hand and a good bar of chocolate in the other. Always good for what ails you!! :whoohoo:

Hang in there, you'll be fine. And we're all pulling for you.