Prices - Wax

[MilosCandles]

Literally 1 year ago I could order 9 50lbs box of wax for $685 shipped.  The last few months it went up to $755 and today when I went order $806.  $120 more, over $13 per 50lbs box of wax. WTF!

 

Fortunately late last year I decided to up my prices after 4 years of not changing.  Here I thought I was making more money, but in reality just covering the new costs.  UGH. 

 

I am scared to look at prices for me FO and other items. 

 

Anyone else see crazy price hikes on things they buy?

[On The Road Supply Co]

On 10/16/2020 at 5:35 PM, MilosCandles said:

Literally 1 year ago I could order 9 50lbs box of wax for $685 shipped.  The last few months it went up to $755 and today when I went order $806.  $120 more, over $13 per 50lbs box of wax. WTF!

 

Fortunately late last year I decided to up my prices after 4 years of not changing.  Here I thought I was making more money, but in reality just covering the new costs.  UGH. 

 

I am scared to look at prices for me FO and other items. 

 

Anyone else see crazy price hikes on things they buy?

Newer to the game but have definitely noticed this for SHIPPING. Shipping costs have gone crazy! UPS is adding surcharges left and right while also capping the # of shipments many of their volume business customers can make (which I’ve never heard of in my lifetime).

 

That, combined with global supply chain impacts, material shortages, many factories still at reduced capacity/production- it all kind of “adds up” but it really sucks if you can’t do what a big corporation does and just pass that increase off down the line somewhere.

 

Mainly hoping things improve and we can see some things get more back to normal - and not have to adjust to this becoming the new normal...

 

Jealous of anyone who lives near their supplier and can do warehouse pickups right now 😅 

[bfroberts]

I just noticed an increase of about $6-7 for case+shipping from Candlewic.  Apparently with their revamped website, the special case price + shipping is no longer available.  It wasn't a big savings, just a few bucks, but every little bit counts.  I'll have to investigate that more when I have time. Right now my password isn't working on the new website....ugh. 
Some of my main oils have gone up within the last year or two, and I've had to pay a little more for jars lately when I couldn't get them from my normal supplier.  To offset these and any upcoming increases, in the new year I think I will be switching from 16oz square masons to the 12oz economy jar.  My per candle price will stay the same, but the candle weight will decrease by a few ounces.  The look will be basically the same and I don't think it'll be a deal breaker for any of my customers or accounts.

[TallTayl]

The Relatively new shipping penalties for being over 50 lbs is crazy. You pay for 9 cases what an entire pallet costs to ship half way across the country. If you can afford to buy (and have space for) a pallet, prices drop quickly. Usually a full pallet is roughly $600 give or take to ship. 
 

I have used LTL (less than load) services to ship drums of materials, saving a bundle. have used UShip in the past, and many other competitors have sprung up.
 

FedEx has some freight services that can save a little $ too. 
 

a few small groups on Facebook reveal people opening small wax reselling operations that bring in a pallet and sell off their surplus. Local-ish buyers pick up theIt wax and everyone is happy they saved a bit of coin. 

[kfintoni]

Check out jar pricing. That has also gone up on th very hard to find Mason jars.

 

Karen in MA

[Kerven]

Have noticed increased prices on waxes, materials such as cetearyl, stearic, etc., containers, and shipping. FO, IMO, appeared to be increasing for years, especially with the reformulations, so I'm not counting those.

 

I've been trying to justify placing an order for some S&P pillar wax but at $2.80/lb plus the shipping options and costs I'm hesitant. I really don't want to have to use USPS for cheaper shipping. FedEx Home Delivery is about 3x as much for the same order. Really hoping this blend I'm working on turns out because it should be a lot cheaper... I'm just having a heck of a time sourcing one of the materials because there seems to be a shortage.

 

For those of us who don't use more than 50lbs at a time, would co-oping direct from manufacturers be cheaper?

[TallTayl]

53 minutes ago, Kerven said:

Have noticed increased prices on waxes, materials such as cetearyl, stearic, etc., containers, and shipping. FO, IMO, appeared to be increasing for years, especially with the reformulations, so I'm not counting those.

 

I've been trying to justify placing an order for some S&P pillar wax but at $2.80/lb plus the shipping options and costs I'm hesitant. I really don't want to have to use USPS for cheaper shipping. FedEx Home Delivery is about 3x as much for the same order. Really hoping this blend I'm working on turns out because it should be a lot cheaper... I'm just having a heck of a time sourcing one of the materials because there seems to be a shortage.

 

For those of us who don't use more than 50lbs at a time, would co-oping direct from manufacturers be cheaper?

What are you looking for?

 

coopping can help with costs, especially if the purchase quantities are high. I live near several suppliers which has helped contain many of my costs. 

[Kerven]

I think I have enough to finish testing. Right now, I'm tinkering with additives to try to improve a surface frosting issue (it's perfect otherwise). If it turns out, co92, stearic, and something else will be needed. (I'm almost certain I've managed to recreate the franken-formula from years ago - but better.)

There's another blend I'd like to try in order to get rid of this huge slab of coco83 and it requires SP-486. I'll splurge for testing, but if it's a success I'm probably going to need a bunch of SP-486 and maybe either coco83, coconut-apricot, or coconut apricot creme.

Stocked up on mason jars, so I'll make do with those. Wicks... will have to see about that. ECO worked fine in the original candle but due to the amount of stearic I might need something like CSN.

I'm thinking my problem is that I need a variety of things from a variety of suppliers, causing overall shipping costs to go through the roof.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Kerven

[MilosCandles]

On 10/18/2020 at 11:02 AM, TallTayl said:

The Relatively new shipping penalties for being over 50 lbs is crazy. You pay for 9 cases what an entire pallet costs to ship half way across the country. If you can afford to buy (and have space for) a pallet, prices drop quickly. Usually a full pallet is roughly $600 give or take to ship. 
 

The 9 cases I order is on a pallet.  I have got quotes before for pallet shipping and after 9 cases the savings is not enough to justify ordering that many.  The saving per case is usually less than a dollar.  I have ordered 18 cases before but that was just more cause I was going through so much at the time.

 

I have contacted Golden Brands Wax directly, and almost spit out my drink when the reply email stated "We do have a minimum of 21,600Lbs of wax that must be ordered per order."  (432 50lbs Cases, or in my case 12 Pallets)  I do not have the space for that much.  LOL  Unless they can just leave the trailer in my driveway for a year or 2.  Not sure my neighbors would appreciate that.

 

 

[TallTayl]

8 minutes ago, MilosCandles said:

The 9 cases I order is on a pallet.  I have got quotes before for pallet shipping and after 9 cases the savings is not enough to justify ordering that many.  The saving per case is usually less than a dollar.  I have ordered 18 cases before but that was just more cause I was going through so much at the time.

 

I have contacted Golden Brands Wax directly, and almost spit out my drink when the reply email stated "We do have a minimum of 21,600Lbs of wax that must be ordered per order."  (432 50lbs Cases, or in my case 12 Pallets)  I do not have the space for that much.  LOL  Unless they can just leave the trailer in my driveway for a year or 2.  Not sure my neighbors would appreciate that.

 

 

@strugglebrother got any advice here? 

[Marisa11]

So I work for a bicycle accessory manufacturer and I handle logistics, purchasing, vendor relations, inventory and a bunch of other fun hats. Now last couple of years you might have heard about Trump increasing tariffs/duties on goods from China. For some reason some people thought that was Trump charging China. Anyways any goods that come from any country goes through customs and products are categorized under their appropriate HTS code.  Well different codes have different % of taxes (duties) to be paid for us having them imported to us. Well Trumps increases made it so a product that would normally have a 3.7% duty now would have an additional 15% on top of that. So something that costs you $100 when you imported before the increase you paid $103.70 with the increase it now costs you $118.70. This is not including customs broker fees or shipping. Well no one is just ordering $100 worth of stuff there are usually MOQs and MOAs you have to meet. So most likely your shipments are going to be  Around $100,000 Now to make it easier let’s say that shipment is all the same item so it’s categorized under the same HTS code per my example above so originally your taxes to import this is $3,700 but with the additional tariff you now pay $18,700 in just the taxes to US customs. Normal processing time from when I sent the vendor the Purchase order and the Time it got delivered to our warehouse would be 90-120 days. That’s a smaller lead time. Well that was just some products. Some even got exclusions. Well let me tell you that a HUGE amount of goods got a lovely 25% additional duty. So now that $100 product is $128.70. Not only did this put some smaller businesses out of business but trying to scramble to have an entire factory moved or trying to find a country where they can create a comparable product without losing its integrity Well that’s only going to take more time. Then COVID hit Jan 2020 in China just right after their Chinese New Year where everyone takes weeks off. Well no one could go back to the factories. I had POs from DEC 2019 that I didn’t start receiving until May/June 2020 And they were mostly partial shipments. With this also came shipping issues. Vessels had been packed with people trying to get product imported before the tariffs went into effect so prices peaked. Then when nothing was being produced because of COVID shipping liners were loosing money and couldn’t sail if they couldn’t get containers on their ships. So expect it to get even worse and quality to go down and extreme delays. That 90-120 day lead time is now about 120-210 days lead time and that’s not just out of China. A lot of our stuff we don’t even put on the website because as soon as it hits our warehouse. It’s right back out the door. No one has ever seen anything like this the US dollar is not as strong right now so I’m seeing price increases outside of China. I got pretty good at categorizing products and I looked once for candle jars but don’t remember the duties. And they have to be categorized correctly otherwise it’s a HUGE deal if you get caught. 

[strugglebrother]

On 10/22/2020 at 8:49 PM, TallTayl said:

@strugglebrother got any advice here? 

@MilosCandles

 

A full pallet is usually 40 cases so that should bring your shipping down to $15 per case. If you only buy 9 cases the pallet shipping might not give you the best shipping price.

 

If you are able to buy one pallet per year instead of 4 shipments a year you should save some money. And you know that you have consistent wax for a full year.

 

Another factor is where you are buying from, sometimes its actually cheaper to have one pallet shipped across the whole country than buying from a distributor with a higher price closer to you. It's a bit of a email and phone game to try and find where to buy from. IGI's main west coast distributor, which is closer to me, is more expensive than shipping a pallet from the IGI east coast distributor across the country.

 

Call the distributor you are buying from and ask them if they can tailor a freight quote for you, sometimes those calculators they use on the website doesn't give you the correct / best price.

 

Remember that shops like Candlescience, Bulk Apothecary etc, those shops are not ment for serious candle makers who want to make a living on making candles, they are ment to work as a starting point and for hobbyists. You deal with highly inflated prices, watered down fragrance oils, inconsistent supply and higher shipping prices. When you can start moving away from them your profit will increase.

 

What wax are you buying, from what store and where do you live?

Edited October 26, 2020 by strugglebrother

[karinz40]

So if Candlescience, Bulk Apothecary etc sell watered down fragrances and I want the good stuff where do I buy?

[Marisa11]

2 hours ago, karinz40 said:

So if Candlescience, Bulk Apothecary etc sell watered down fragrances and I want the good stuff where do I buy?

Not all the suppliers sell diluted fragrances that was just one example of something some of the smaller suppliers might do to cut their own costs. I have purchased from Bulk Apothecary and I get a killer HT just using 5%. They are really pricey though and that is most likely why. I also believe that Natures Garden does not dilute their FO's. They claim it but I do not know how that is regulated. If you want to make sure your fragrance is undiluted you would need to go directly to a perfume manufacturer. https://www.agilexfragrances.com/ Here is one example off the top of my head. I am not familiar with costs or the process so I am of no help there but this is one example. 

 

For shipping like @strugglebrother mentioned you can get quotes from multiple companies that do domestic LTL's (Less than loads - doesn't fill an entire truck) and work that out with the supplier. I can get you names from my warehouse manager if you want and try and help you get some quotes. I do International shipments so my contacts are different. My warehouse manager sets up pallets from AZ to our other warehouse in NC and vise versa all the time.  I know you were interested in Coconut Apricot even though it has the longer cure time you do not like but Calwax their manufacturer is right here in Phoenix. MOQ is 500lbs and you can bring your own truck to pick up.  https://calwax.com/product/candle-waxes/ If you want a little wax to try I would be more than happy to share with you and some wicks I have been having good luck with. It would be nice to have a candle buddy that uses the same wax. I can also give you my contact at Calwax's e-mail address and maybe they do samples of all their wax types. It would not hurt to ask. 

[karinz40]

Thanks, I'll pm you about that.

[TallTayl]

On 10/26/2020 at 4:25 PM, Marisa11 said:

Not all the suppliers sell diluted fragrances that was just one example of something some of the smaller suppliers might do to cut their own costs. I have purchased from Bulk Apothecary and I get a killer HT just using 5%. They are really pricey though and that is most likely why. I also believe that Natures Garden does not dilute their FO's. They claim it but I do not know how that is regulated. If you want to make sure your fragrance is undiluted you would need to go directly to a perfume manufacturer. https://www.agilexfragrances.com/ Here is one example off the top of my head. I am not familiar with costs or the process so I am of no help there but this is one example. 

 

 

I think we all need to change terminology. Diluted implies that a company received a keg of FO, and adds something to it to stretch the FO.  This is really not the case.  

 

Retail available fragrances vary in their percentages of deluents. A deluent is a liquid used to change the concentration. “Pure” aromachemicals are not readily available to us, especially in small amounts (less than kegs) and are hella expensive. Likewise, an awful lot of powders, such as vanillin would be impossible to use in candles without a deluent to melt it into a misceable liquid that will blend into wax without separating out. To keep the price points favorable, Aromachemicals used in candle/soap fragrances are diluted with typically one of three deluents: DEP-Diethyl Phthalates, DOA-Dioctyl Adipate or IPM-Isopropyl Myristate. Save On Scents tackles this by offering different concentrations. The fragrance labs I work with also can varythe deluents of my choice to make the fragrance work as it needs to.

 

Since phthalates fell out of favor, DOA took the lead. Soy users demanded more more more fragrance in that wax, so wax makers add more additives to hold more more more of these deluents And still look like what their customers want. It is a vicious cycle. Most wax does not need that much fragrance. More typically causes issues that we fight by adding beeswax, paraffin, soy or palm in many combos.

 

WRT Bulk Apothecary scents, they have used lebermuth as the compounder of their Fragrances, just as many of us use different labs. It does not mean the BA scent is exactly the same as the one from Lebermth's catalog.  Fragrances use different recipes (codes) for different customers.  One painful example was Egyptian Dragon. I had an original from Lebermuth that I loved and only needed a couple of pounds later.  I trusted the hive and bought from BA. It was an entirely different fragrance from the one in Lebermuth's catalog. I ended up having to buy a keg to get the fragrance I needed from my own lab so I owned the code and did not waste so much time and materials in the future.

[strugglebrother]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I think we all need to change terminology. Diluted implies that a company received a keg of FO, and adds something to it to stretch the FO.  This is really not the case.  

 

Retail available fragrances vary in their percentages of deluents. A deluent is a liquid used to change the concentration. “Pure” aromachemicals are not readily available to us, especially in small amounts (less than kegs) and are hella expensive. Likewise, an awful lot of powders, such as vanillin would be impossible to use in candles without a deluent to melt it into a misceable liquid that will blend into wax without separating out. To keep the price points favorable, Aromachemicals used in candle/soap fragrances are diluted with typically one of three deluents: DEP-Diethyl Phthalates, DOA-Dioctyl Adipate or IPM-Isopropyl Myristate. Save On Scents tackles this by offering different concentrations. The fragrance labs I work with also can varythe deluents of my choice to make the fragrance work as it needs to.

 

Since phthalates fell out of favor, DOA took the lead. Soy users demanded more more more fragrance in that wax, so wax makers add more additives to hold more more more of these deluents And still look like what their customers want. It is a vicious cycle. Most wax does not need that much fragrance. More typically causes issues that we fight by adding beeswax, paraffin, soy or palm in many combos.

 

WRT Bulk Apothecary scents, they have used lebermuth as the compounder of their Fragrances, just as many of us use different labs. It does not mean the BA scent is exactly the same as the one from Lebermth's catalog.  Fragrances use different recipes (codes) for different customers.  One painful example was Egyptian Dragon. I had an original from Lebermuth that I loved and only needed a couple of pounds later.  I trusted the hive and bought from BA. It was an entirely different fragrance from the one in Lebermuth's catalog. I ended up having to buy a keg to get the fragrance I needed from my own lab so I owned the code and did not waste so much time and materials in the future.

Very good summary of this...

 

One more great reason to buy straight from the fragrance houses...

 

Oil is freshly made to order, it doesn't sit on a shelf for possibly up to a year....

Oil is exactly the same as it was, fragrance houses do not reformulate without being instructed to do so from their customers.. Only retailers do that, and they do it frequently and they discontinue

 

Downside, you have to buy in 25/lb quantities.

 

Bad restaurants serve 50 mediocre dishes... Good ones serve 7-10 excellent ones

[Marisa11]

On 10/30/2020 at 10:12 AM, TallTayl said:

I think we all need to change terminology. Diluted implies that a company received a keg of FO, and adds something to it to stretch the FO.  This is really not the case.  

 

 

So that is what I was saying when someone was asking about “Watered down” fragrances. When some of these companies claim that they are 100% concentrated like BA and NG they are implying that other suppliers might  “dilute,water down” their fragrances so they can have a larger profit margin.  So I understand what you are saying about the manufacturer making the fragrance but are you saying that there is not a way for suppliers when receiving their Keg to add a lil somethin’ somethin’ extra to stretch out that FO?

 

Wouldn’t that then make the original MSDS sheet invalid? I notice that there are a lot of companies that do not offer MSDS directly on their sites. My company does not but I don’t have issues getting them from our vendors. I only notice this because of my job and I know one time I needed to provide the MSDS sheet for some tire sealant because it had spilled out of a shipping box onto the FedEx driver and they were allergic to latex.  We receive the sealant in 55gal drums and then we re-package into multiple packages to re-sell. It is water based so I guess if they wanted to they could add some water without it affecting the final product. 

 

So is that a possibility? Obviously not water but something else they could add in house? So really all that BA and NG are saying is that its 100% “concentrated” from theIr manufacturer meaning it is sold with the same compound as they receive it? As a consumer that was how I read it.  You have much better insight. 

[TallTayl]

4 hours ago, Marisa11 said:

So that is what I was saying when someone was asking about “Watered down” fragrances. When some of these companies claim that they are 100% concentrated like BA and NG they are implying that other suppliers might  “dilute,water down” their fragrances so they can have a larger profit margin.  So I understand what you are saying about the manufacturer making the fragrance but are you saying that there is not a way for suppliers when receiving their Keg to add a lil somethin’ somethin’ extra to stretch out that FO?

 

Wouldn’t that then make the original MSDS sheet invalid? I notice that there are a lot of companies that do not offer MSDS directly on their sites. My company does not but I don’t have issues getting them from our vendors. I only notice this because of my job and I know one time I needed to provide the MSDS sheet for some tire sealant because it had spilled out of a shipping box onto the FedEx driver and they were allergic to latex.  We receive the sealant in 55gal drums and then we re-package into multiple packages to re-sell. It is water based so I guess if they wanted to they could add some water without it affecting the final product. 

 

So is that a possibility? Obviously not water but something else they could add in house? So really all that BA and NG are saying is that its 100% “concentrated” from theIr manufacturer meaning it is sold with the same compound as they receive it? As a consumer that was how I read it.  You have much better insight. 

While it might be a possibility, how practical is it? Contents of the large FO kegs and deluent would need to be transferred and blended into other kegs by people who are skilled enough at making them homogenous. That costs time. Employees time costs more than the deluent to “water down” the fragrance. Natures Garden would need tanker trucks of whatever deluent  they wanted to use to water down. I would  think their employees would spill the beans if this was a practice.
 

It is much cheaper and safer for the company to order in whatever concentration they want. So technically they are not watering anything down if they order in a specific concentration. When I hear “water down” it sounds like they’re adding soy bean oil or mineral oil to it. Just order in the concentration and price point that you want, and then there’s total honesty in their claim of concentrated fragrances. 
 

The one exception to this is one American soy organics used to sell fragrance. They boasted that even their fragrance had soy in it. They gave me pause and I suppose I could smell some of their older fragrances and see if the soy had gone off as a clue. But I couldn’t tell with 100% certainty since the ingredients are not shared.

[moonshine]

On 10/19/2020 at 12:20 PM, Kerven said:

I think I have enough to finish testing. Right now, I'm tinkering with additives to try to improve a surface frosting issue (it's perfect otherwise). If it turns out, co92, stearic, and something else will be needed. (I'm almost certain I've managed to recreate the franken-formula from years ago - but better.)

There's another blend I'd like to try in order to get rid of this huge slab of coco83 and it requires SP-486. I'll splurge for testing, but if it's a success I'm probably going to need a bunch of SP-486 and maybe either coco83, coconut-apricot, or coconut apricot creme.

Stocked up on mason jars, so I'll make do with those. Wicks... will have to see about that. ECO worked fine in the original candle but due to the amount of stearic I might need something like CSN.

I'm thinking my problem is that I need a variety of things from a variety of suppliers, causing overall shipping costs to go through the roof.

Hey kerven….how did this go for you with the 486 and coco 83?

I tried it at 25% but did not like how crazy the flames got even with smaller wicks 

I think the 486 has beeswax in it according to a FB group mod 

I tried the 487 and love that one so much better 

Curious what you thought 
 

[NightLight]

Fragrances don’t get watered down, but when a company orders fragrances they can have choices of how much they want to spend on an oil. So for example premium oils will if a dupe of a perfume will have more expensive aroma molecules and will smell better. To get an acceptable fragrance product that smells close enough, and comes in at a certain price point that’s the other choice or request by company ordering. I would say most companies we order from we get the good enough, and the companies make enough profit. One could get excellent fragrances but they would have to be marked off and the would put off most crafters. 16 bucks per pound is okay, but if offered at 35 bucks per pound not many sales would be made. Perfumery compounds the really good ones that make the scent can be very expensive.

[TallTayl]

Fragrances are ordered in different concentrations from the compounder / lab.

 

"watered down"  is just a slang term for perceived smell strength based on a weak concentration of aromachemical molecules in the bottle/keg. I can order my fragrances from the lab in any concentration I wish, with prices per keg varying with the concentrations. The rest of the bottle content is diluent, such as DOA, DEP, IPM, etc. A bottle of pure aromachemicals would be a) extremely costly and b) very difficult (and downright dangerous) for most home crafters to use.

 

Save on Scents offers their FO in three different concentrations, for example. Most retailers order one for simplicity and best price.