I need professional help!

[Forrest]

No, not that kind of help, although I need that too, but today I need help choosing a wick for my 11oz tureens. I have three wicks, I’ll call them A, B, and C. Wicks A and B have a burn rate of four grams per hour; the difference is the melt pool for wick B is much smaller. Wick B is burning all of the wax in the container, but less of it is liquid at any time. Wick C’s melt pool matches wick A’s, but it is burning five grams per hour. All three have good flames and no other issues. My guess is that wick C will give me the best hot throw as it had the highest burn rate, but my guesses are often wrong. I am also unsure if there would be a difference in hot throw between A and B. With this decision I will come to the end of my wick testing for the 11oz tureens, I would like to thank all of you who advised me to do this and encouraged me along the way.

[Trappeur]

How bout some pictures?

 

So what your saying is you really haven't found what wicks you need for these tureens and your giving up?  If that is the case....been there, done that...

Sometimes if you walk away for a period of time, get your head clear and move onto something else, you can later come back and start over with a fresh head.  The 22oz same tureen just like your jars but bigger, I had the same problem probably close to 2 years ago and I drove myself nuts trying out every wick I thought I would try with no luck.   About 4 to 5 months ago, guess what?  I found my wicks!    I started all over and it was like hitting the lotto.....

 

If you have a much better throw with wick C and you burn wax more faster, but it is quite a noticeable difference in throw than A or B I would myself go with that wick.

After all we all want the best throw, right?  The way I look at it is if you have a great scented candle and it burns more quicker.....well it is what it is, so be it, so it burns more quickly.

 

If A and B burn about the same and the throw is about the same but A has a smaller melt pool depth I would tend to go with A because of the way consumers will burn them....like "Crap"....

 

Are you single or double wicking these jars?

 

Did you power burn all of these candles?  What was the hours it took to burn a candle from beginning to end?  I'm not into this gram stuff and wouldn't be able to calculate what your saying.  Most important thing as  you know is a safe, clean burning and maximum great throw of a scented candle.  

 

Trappeur

Edited May 30, 2018 by Trappeur

[Forrest]

I stopped taking pictures because, due to the nature of the containers, I wasn’t getting any useful information from them. Now I weigh every hour, note the flame and wick condition and measure the melt pool.

I will never give up until there are no more wicks to test. I’ve tested multiple sizes of 5 different wick types. Based on everything I know any of these three are good, but the other thing I know is that I don’t know very much; that’s why I hang out here all the time. I had ruled our wick D due to sooting, then bfroberts commented that sooting in 6006 is reduced with additional cure time; I consider him an expert in 6006.

I gave up double wicking because that seemed to make the air currents worse and finding a small enough wick was difficult. Single wicking has worked well. I tested wick A with Kudzu FO and the data didn’t indicate a need to wick up or down so I could make two more with wicks B and D to test the hot throw, but that is a very subjective test.

I do power burn them but getting more than a 4 hour burn on my schedule has to wait for the weekend, but none of these wicks have any issues. My total burn time on most test has been around 40 hours. Getting to this point has taken a long time and I have a lot of new FO that are begging to be put in wax. I can hear them calling me when I walk by the cabinet where they are stored. I have some that I haven’t put up yet that I open and smell every once in a while, but I suppose one last test won’t kill me.

 

[Candybee]

Was just curious why you use tureen jars for your candles? They are not ideal jars for candlemaking. I have only used them for wickless candles to be placed on a candle warming plate. The jar 's low flat squat shape is ideal for wickless, not so much for candles. Even if you get it wicked properly customers will complain about the wax left in the jar and they should. The jars waste wax. Ask me how I know.

[Hopie]

I agree with Candybee. Years back, when I first started playing with soy wax, I made a few candles in short, squatty heart shaped glass containers, and it was really hard to get all the wax to burn. Always left too much wax in the jar. Even though I triple wicked that bugger. I used them for personal use, until I turned them into candy dishes 

[Forrest]

35 minutes ago, Candybee said:

Was just curious why you use tureen jars for your candles? They are not ideal jars for candlemaking. I have only used them for wickless candles to be placed on a candle warming plate. The jar 's low flat squat shape is ideal for wickless, not so much for candles. Even if you get it wicked properly customers will complain about the wax left in the jar and they should. The jars waste wax. Ask me how I know.

Because I am not nearly as smart as I am stubborn and they were the first containers I tried. That and I really like the way they look when I decorate them with alcohol ink. I was doing fine with the 7oz tureens until I decided to try the 11oz tureens and in the process learned that I was over wicking the 7oz ones. They really aren’t that hard as long as you don’t know what you’re doing, but once you know what a properly wicked candle is they become very difficult. I should have avoided the Craft Server and been happy in my ignorance.

[bfroberts]

2 hours ago, Forrest said:

I will never give up until there are no more wicks to test. I’ve tested multiple sizes of 5 different wick types. Based on everything I know any of these three are good, but the other thing I know is that I don’t know very much; that’s why I hang out here all the time. I had ruled our wick D due to sooting, then bfroberts commented that sooting in 6006 is reduced with additional cure time; I consider him an expert in 6006.

 

 

Thanks, but I sure ain't no expert.  Flicker is a 6006 expert, and there are others.  I am very very very far from it.

I'd be double wicking those tureens with 2 36z's.  

 

Oh, and I'm a she 😉

 

Good luck!

[Forrest]

5 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

Thanks, but I sure ain't no expert.  Flicker is a 6006 expert, and there are others.  I am very very very far from it.

I'd be double wicking those tureens with 2 36z's.  

 

Oh, and I'm a she 😉

 

Good luck! 

Sorry about the gender mix up, you just never know on here. I tried the two 36z's, way too much wick, I tried the next size down and it was too big. . I've spent many hours reading this board and find that you give good advice and that you know 6006. When you post something on this board you never know who you might be helping, like the soot thing. I rejected what was probably the best wick over a minimal amount of soot. The problem was exacerbated by my wick not being centered. 

[Forrest]

2 hours ago, Candybee said:

Was just curious why you use tureen jars for your candles? They are not ideal jars for candlemaking. I have only used them for wickless candles to be placed on a candle warming plate. The jar 's low flat squat shape is ideal for wickless, not so much for candles. Even if you get it wicked properly customers will complain about the wax left in the jar and they should. The jars waste wax. Ask me how I know.

 

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

I agree with Candybee. Years back, when I first started playing with soy wax, I made a few candles in short, squatty heart shaped glass containers, and it was really hard to get all the wax to burn. Always left too much wax in the jar. Even though I triple wicked that bugger. I used them for personal use, until I turned them into candy dishes 

Here is a picture of one of my tureens, this is why I haven't given up.

[bfroberts]

23 minutes ago, Forrest said:

Sorry about the gender mix up, you just never know on here. I tried the two 36z's, way too much wick, I tried the next size down and it was too big. . I've spent many hours reading this board and find that you give good advice and that you know 6006. When you post something on this board you never know who you might be helping, like the soot thing. I rejected what was probably the best wick over a minimal amount of soot. The problem was exacerbated by my wick not being centered. 

 

What's the diameter on those tureens?  I was thinking it was about the same as apothecary jars.

 

Your jars are beautiful.  

 

[Forrest]

28 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

 

What's the diameter on those tureens?  I was thinking it was about the same as apothecary jars.

 

Your jars are beautiful.  

 

Thank you. The one above is the 7oz and it is 3.8in outside diameter, the 11oz are 4.1in, but the air currents in these things mean you need smaller wicks and double wicking creates worse currents. My first double wick test I half filled them and in a still room the flames went sideways as soon as I lit them. 

[bfroberts]

50 minutes ago, Forrest said:

Thank you. The one above is the 7oz and it is 3.8in outside diameter, the 11oz are 4.1in, but the air currents in these things mean you need smaller wicks and double wicking creates worse currents. My first double wick test I half filled them and in a still room the flames went sideways as soon as I lit them. 

 

Hmmm, I would have thought it would follow the same burn pattern as apothecaries.  I'm gonna have to get me a tureen and try wicking it.   

Like I need another jar.   

It's the challenge of the thing.  Gets me every time.

 

What wick series do you use?

[bfroberts]

To answer your original question...
well, to be honest, I'm afraid I don't really understand.  I am probably missing something.  You said "My guess is that wick C will give me the best hot throw as it had the highest burn rate, but my guesses are often wrong. I am also unsure if there would be a difference in hot throw between A and B."  If you are guessing does that mean you have or have not burned them to test the HT?

[Forrest]

39 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

 

Hmmm, I would have thought it would follow the same burn pattern as apothecaries.  I'm gonna have to get me a tureen and try wicking it.   

Like I need another jar.   

It's the challenge of the thing.  Gets me every time.

 

What wick series do you use?

It seems to me that the CD wicks give me the shallowest melt pool for their burn rate. The zinc cores don't work as well, I believe the zinc transfers heat causing a deep melt pool.

[Forrest]

18 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

To answer your original question...
well, to be honest, I'm afraid I don't really understand.  I am probably missing something.  You said "My guess is that wick C will give me the best hot throw as it had the highest burn rate, but my guesses are often wrong. I am also unsure if there would be a difference in hot throw between A and B."  If you are guessing does that mean you have or have not burned them to test the HT?

That was my thinking also, I'm going to try and test that theory.

[Hopie]

The jars are beautiful. Can't you paint other jars just as gorgeous as this one? 

[Sarah S]

@Forrest, I remembered seeing pictures of your jars before, they are absolutely gorgeous.

I was thinking about this last night (that's my life, I think about Craftserever when I'm not on Craftserver), and I have a few suggestions based on my experience as a consumer.

 

First off, I would buy your candle in a heartbeat, but be reluctant to burn it. I would save it for "special" occasions, because I would not want to use it up. Therefore, I would never do a power burn with it like I would a regular candle.

Second, although hot throw would be nice, I would be totally ok with a more subtle HT from a candle like that. I would, however, expect the fragrance to be unique, different, or special in some way.  Classy! I would be disappointed if it smelled like apples, lol.

Finally, that is definitely the kind of candle I would purchase as a gift for someone, and they no doubt would be even more reluctant to use it up since it came from their favorite person (me!!!).

 

So if it were me wicking that, I would be concerned with:

1. A wick that performs well with short burns, and burns cleanly over time, with as little sooting as possible.

2. Fragrance that is unique/classy, but not be overly concerned with the best throw (not that you want crappy HT, but you know what I mean).

3. Packaging that is conducive to gift-giving and a great product story to go with it.

 

Those are the things that I would take into consideration with your particular container. That is, of course, just my opinion! 

[Trappeur]

In that jar but in a 6oz I use 1 cd12....but then I'm using 464 wax.

 

I too found out that using that style jar there is quite a bit of wax left in the bottom if single wicking.

Now in the 22oz tureen jar I use 2 cd 7's and they burn just beautiful with "no" left over" wax at the bottom.

It may sound like the wicks are slightly too big and in the beginning of the burn where the opening is, it is going to burn rather fast but you need to consider it is coming to the middle area of the jar which is the widest and you are going to need the bigger wicks for this area so when the candle has reached the center part of the jar what was a rather deeper melt pool in the beginning now evens out to a nice 1/4" melt pool and stays there all the way to the end.  This is my findings on this style jar.  I know that probably doesn't solve your problem with the smaller tureen.  Me personally, I wouldn't use the smaller jar as that jar in my findings does best with 1 wick as even the smallest wicks out there if using double, they are still too big to use as a double wicked jar.

 

Maybe you need to go to the 22oz jar like mine?  Wouldn't that be gorgeous with your beautiful painting on the jar?  I think so!  Of course that jar if you were selling would command a bigger price.  The 22oz jar I sell to a shop sells it for 25.00 but it is a big candle and I would pay that price myself.

 

Trappeur

[TallTayl]

Before finalizing that jar Choice, I’d put a bunch of them out to trusted friends. Nothing tells you more about a candle than having someone else burn them in their own homes. Ask for pictures as they burn, if you know them well. And ask for the jars back at the end. 

 

 

[Forrest]

6 hours ago, Hopie said:

The jars are beautiful. Can't you paint other jars just as gorgeous as this one? 

I have tried with some other containers and it does not look as good. They look much better with wax behind them, 6006 is the perfect background for them. Most people make glass globs and burn votives in them.

[Forrest]

1 hour ago, Sarah S said:

@Forrest, I remembered seeing pictures of your jars before, they are absolutely gorgeous.

I was thinking about this last night (that's my life, I think about Craftserever when I'm not on Craftserver), and I have a few suggestions based on my experience as a consumer.

 

First off, I would buy your candle in a heartbeat, but be reluctant to burn it. I would save it for "special" occasions, because I would not want to use it up. Therefore, I would never do a power burn with it like I would a regular candle.

Second, although hot throw would be nice, I would be totally ok with a more subtle HT from a candle like that. I would, however, expect the fragrance to be unique, different, or special in some way.  Classy! I would be disappointed if it smelled like apples, lol.

Finally, that is definitely the kind of candle I would purchase as a gift for someone, and they no doubt would be even more reluctant to use it up since it came from their favorite person (me!!!).

 

So if it were me wicking that, I would be concerned with:

1. A wick that performs well with short burns, and burns cleanly over time, with as little sooting as possible.

2. Fragrance that is unique/classy, but not be overly concerned with the best throw (not that you want crappy HT, but you know what I mean).

3. Packaging that is conducive to gift-giving and a great product story to go with it.

 

Those are the things that I would take into consideration with your particular container. That is, of course, just my opinion! 

I agree on all points. I had one of these in my bathroom for months and couldn’t bring myself to burn it, so I gave it to my daughter. I am a long way from marketing these, but thanks to this board I might get there one day, I would have quit already if it weren’t for TallTayl, learning about the currents was the key. If I get to the point of selling my wife is great with packaging. The problem is getting paid for my time, I will have to get much faster at inking or the cost will be too high. I’m thinking that next year I’ll start selling enough to cover my cost.

[Forrest]

1 hour ago, Trappeur said:

In that jar but in a 6oz I use 1 cd12....but then I'm using 464 wax.

 

I too found out that using that style jar there is quite a bit of wax left in the bottom if single wicking.

Now in the 22oz tureen jar I use 2 cd 7's and they burn just beautiful with "no" left over" wax at the bottom.

It may sound like the wicks are slightly too big and in the beginning of the burn where the opening is, it is going to burn rather fast but you need to consider it is coming to the middle area of the jar which is the widest and you are going to need the bigger wicks for this area so when the candle has reached the center part of the jar what was a rather deeper melt pool in the beginning now evens out to a nice 1/4" melt pool and stays there all the way to the end.  This is my findings on this style jar.  I know that probably doesn't solve your problem with the smaller tureen.  Me personally, I wouldn't use the smaller jar as that jar in my findings does best with 1 wick as even the smallest wicks out there if using double, they are still too big to use as a double wicked jar.

 

Maybe you need to go to the 22oz jar like mine?  Wouldn't that be gorgeous with your beautiful painting on the jar?  I think so!  Of course that jar if you were selling would command a bigger price.  The 22oz jar I sell to a shop sells it for 25.00 but it is a big candle and I would pay that price myself.

 

Trappeur

So far I haven’t had a problem with left over wax. With the Premier 700 and CD wicks so far the smallest wick that works only leaves the little bit in the bottom that you get with any candle. I’m still in testing with a CD-8 in the 11oz but after 20 hours the melt pool hasn’t come close to the sides but there is no tunneling. I’ll be testing that and the CD-10 for hot throw. Where are you getting a CD-7? I may need those, do they make a CD-9? That might be my perfect wick. I may try the 22oz tureen when I get comfortable with the 11oz. I would like to double wick something, I was trying tea light wicks in the 11oz and they were too big, double wicking makes the air currents worse.  

[Forrest]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Before finalizing that jar Choice, I’d put a bunch of them out to trusted friends. Nothing tells you more about a candle than having someone else burn them in their own homes. Ask for pictures as they burn, if you know them well. And ask for the jars back at the end. 

 

 

I have two daughters, four sisters-in-law, and six nieces and nephews for that. Maybe I will give them a questionnaire to fill out with their candle this Thanksgiving. I’m not sure they know the difference between a good candle and a bad one.

[ncraiders]

37 minutes ago, Forrest said:

I have two daughters, four sisters-in-law, and six nieces and nephews for that. Maybe I will give them a questionnaire to fill out with their candle this Thanksgiving. I’m not sure they know the difference between a good candle and a bad one.

most people don't they look at a candle and if it burns and has good scent they think it is a good one.  Regardless of the fact that it may leave a bunch of leftover wax in the jar, create tons of soot or mushrooming, or have a out of control flame.  I feel when having people test you really need some people testing that knows what a good candle is and what to look for as well as the uneducated person that just want good scent throw regardless of tunneling, soot, or mushrooming.  Before I got on this site i burned candles from walmart. Man was  I wasting money on those as all of them always left a good amount of wax in the jars.

[TallTayl]

It’s good to have a mix of testers. We (I) tend to babysit mine too much. If I see the wick is a little long I instinctively trim it. My husband does not. We get very different results in the same household, and I get to witness how badly mine can fail. 

 

I sent @moonshine a couple of this year’s tins recently that burned 100% textbook perfect in my trials. I was so excited to finally have an acceptable tin for summer. Her office room temp and air currents were just different enough to make them burn a little too hot. Someone in her office lit them on a follow up burn and left the wick a fraction too long and it again burned hotter than optimal. 1/8” - 1/4” wick length difference in soy makes a humongous difference 😫 wicking down creates a throw problem and burn problem for those who do trim properly. Ya can’t win.

 

Likewise, if I send one to my fam in the fall/winter, they may not burn hot enough since temps during those seasons plummet (like  living in igloos). We have to develop a range of acceptable, since no candle will ever be perfection. I like to see the containers after people burn them.  It tells me an awful lot.