Sarah S Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Valmek said: If i went by weight to fill my jar and put 8 oz of weight, it'd be overflowing over the top of my 8oz jar. I know the cost of my supplies, I know how I will calculate the cost of selling, which isn't the way everyone else is because everyone else selling candles is selling for WAY too much considering what the cost of the candles are to actually make. I really only made this thread to talk about the shipping costs before purchasing to see if the price was actually correct being so high, not to talk about my supply cost or how I should fill my candles based on weight or volume. I'd close this thread because of this but the moderators already told me no, they won't close the thread. I'm sorry if I sound rude but if I wished to talk about such things I'd make a thread pertaining to it not in a thread i solely made talking about shipping cost. Everyone gave you some great advice on the cost of shipping, and the cost of selling. Cost of shipping is calculated into the cost of supplies, which is the basis of the cost of selling. However, when I set my price point, the biggest cost is my time. My time is valuable as a professional, and I'd venture to guess most chandlers feel that way as well. We spend a lot of time perfecting the product before it goes into the hands of others. Perhaps take that into consideration when you research market prices. 5 hours ago, Valmek said: So you are pretty much telling me to fill everyone of my jars exactly how this one is in this picture. I'm not barley "8oz weight" in as what you say and I'm already at the top of the jar. Sell 7oz candles. Use that jar if you like it. Just use 7oz of wax and label it as a 7oz candle. I promise you, no one will look at it and go "WTF, that's a 8oz jar!!" Or do what @moonshine suggested. I think you're over-thinking the container situation. Everyone, especially @TallTayl, has only been trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 So jars are sold and labeled as volume? Hmmmm...I never knew that.... So what is the volume? Air? I really don't know! lol.....seriously.... Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I agree with what Sarah said...That little mason jar filled to the proper height (to the neck) (to where you see that first protruding ridge of where the lid comes down to). Now it may measure out to 7.3 oz but I would round down and make it an even 7oz just like what Sarah said. Because every time you go and fill a jar with wax it may be one could be 7.2 or maybe 7.4 or 7.1...so just make it easy and simple on yourself Valek...Do an even number. Know what I mean? I like simple....And no you don't need to weigh every jar every time you pour one. And everyone is helping you that's all. We all understand now that the volume talk is over and you need to measure in ounces and I'm sure you know that also. Tall Tayle was not being mean what so ever, just trying to help you understand. Hell you guys lost me way back at volume! Trappeur Edited January 9, 2018 by Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I don't think it was mentioned, but there is a method of determining how many oz by weight will fill a jar at a particular volume. Fill a jar to your desired height with water, taking note of the volume of water added. Next, take that volume and convert it to wax weight... the general ratio for 464 soy is 16oz(1lb) = 20floz, I believe. It may be 19floz or 21floz. I always end up with a little extra or a little less, but it's a close approximation. Nevertheless, if filling a jar to your desired height is 7floz of water, then you could use a conversion factor of .8 (16/20) to multiply the desired volume by: .8*7floz = 5.6oz, which is the weight in wax you'd need. Granted, the FO's volume can have an affect on the total volume, so testing is necessary if there is no room past your desired volume. I think I said that right... Someone correct me if not. An 8floz jar will never hold 8oz of wax. It seems suppliers rarely define whether their jars' capacity is in floz or oz, tending to use just #oz when they really should be using #floz, IMO, which can lead to a lot of confusion. Edited January 9, 2018 by Kerven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, Trappeur said: So what is the volume? Air? I really don't know! lol.....seriously.... Trappeur Remember back to high school Algebra... πr2 X height of cylinder.... I had to relearn a lot in a hurry with soaping and candles. Got to teach it to my daughter not long ago. Typically though I see the containers generally measured with fluid ounces to some arbitrary fill line set by the industry that uses that jar most. Home Canning jars fill to the base of the neck usually. A pint jar will hold two cups of jelly or spaghetti sauce with some head room for expansion in the hot water part of canning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 TT I friggin flunked Algebra......but I was good in spelling! ha! But thankyou for the lesson......you rock! Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 🤣 I never scored well on those tests way back then. Never thought it would be important. Well how wrong was I? First time I needed to figure out how much soap to make to fill a mold was a head scratcher. When $$ is on the line I get motivated to learn. 🏋🏻♀️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 But then you have to measure the inside radius... and what if it's not a perfect cylinder... Sticking to the water method. I rediscovered the magic triangle we learned in middle school for calculating velocity... it works for converting from volume to weight when filling containers! Also, cross multiplication: my go-to for almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kerven said: But then you have to measure the inside radius... and what if it's not a perfect cylinder... Sticking to the water method. Exactly. I posted the formula earlier in this thread. Fill the tared jar with water to whatever fill line you choose. Weigh it. Multiply that weight in ounces by .92 (or the actual specific gravity of your wax) and you're pretty much there. It takes about 5 seconds. To find the specific gravity of your wax, Google will provide. I googled specific gravity of gb 444 wax and got this on the mods from candlescience: So however many ounces of water water you get, multiply that by .9 and that is how much wax it takes to fill to that same line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Oooh, you're right. I forgot all about the volume of water = its weight. That makes it much easier, not having to measure the water's volume. Specific gravity... eek. I remember learning that in some class ages ago. Chemistry? Edited January 9, 2018 by Kerven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Kerven said: Oooh, you're right. I forgot all about the volume of water = its weight. That makes it much easier, not having to measure the water's volume. Bingo! "A pint is a pound the world around." A pint of water weighs a pound (16 ounces). A pint is 16 fluid ounces. and if you know the volume of your various containers in a pouring session, you just pour that much wax in weighed ounces into your pour pot and never waste a drop. It is so easy once you wrap your mind around it. Took me a few tries at first but then the lightbulb clicked. I had to test it out with a few different containers to prove to my stubborn brain that is works every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Sarah S said: Everyone gave you some great advice on the cost of shipping, and the cost of selling. Cost of shipping is calculated into the cost of supplies, which is the basis of the cost of selling. However, when I set my price point, the biggest cost is my time. My time is valuable as a professional, and I'd venture to guess most chandlers feel that way as well. We spend a lot of time perfecting the product before it goes into the hands of others. Perhaps take that into consideration when you research market prices. Exactly. When making production products (actual products to sell, and not test products) I pay myself $20 an hour and just work that into the cost of the production. When I'm doing shows/markets I pay myself $15 an hour even though it's soooo much more work, and take that out of the profit margin of what I made the day of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Trappeur said: So jars are sold and labeled as volume? Hmmmm...I never knew that.... So what is the volume? Air? I really don't know! lol.....seriously.... Trappeur They sell them as fluid ounce (volume) jars. However, it is industry standard (and US labelling regulations) that you sell and fill by net weight of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, TallTayl said: 🤣 I never scored well on those tests way back then. Never thought it would be important. Well how wrong was I? First time I needed to figure out how much soap to make to fill a mold was a head scratcher. When $$ is on the line I get motivated to learn. 🏋🏻♀️ I use algebra on a daily basis (as I think almost EVERYBODY does, no matter what line of work they are in) but most people just don't know that's what they are doing, because they are not "solving for X" in the traditional formulaic equation way as we all did in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said: I use algebra on a daily basis (as I think almost EVERYBODY does, no matter what line of work they are in) but most people just don't know that's what they are doing, because they are not "solving for X" in the traditional formulaic equation way as we all did in school. Right! If more teachers would have put the concepts into "real world" context more people like me would have connected the dots. The more ways you can apply the concepts the easier the mental calculations become. (And consequently, the more $ we save because we can plan better!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, TallTayl said: Right! If more teachers would have put the concepts into "real world" context more people like me would have connected the dots. The more ways you can apply the concepts the easier the mental calculations become. (And consequently, the more $ we save because we can plan better!) Ding ding ding. It always irritates me when I see memes like this: Because it's like - uhhh, did you wake up today? Because I guarantee you used algebra in some form.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said: They sell them as fluid ounce (volume) jars. However, it is industry standard (and US labelling regulations) that you sell and fill by net weight of the product. Yes. Weights and measures are pretty cut and dry. items that are liquid are sold by fluid ounces (milk, soda, water, cooking oils, etc.) solids are sold by net weight. last year a tizzy was raised about a supplier selling coconut oil (solid at room temp) by fluid ounces (volume). With something common like coconut oil being so much less dense than water, people were being shorted a LOT. This measurement was used for all of their soaping ingredients. The case went all the way to a class action suit against them in Ohio. Not sure if people were ever compensated for the shortages. Lesson learned, pay attention to weights and measure. Weigh everything when it arrives. Count all pieces when they arrive. Another tizzy was against WSP. They sell their fragrance oils by volume (fluid ounces in the listings). People were weighing the oils and claiming in huge Facebook groups that WSP shorts products. Had to point out to them where to find the specific gravity (listed with every single product they offer) of each oil they buy so they can calculate the amount in the bottles. All were spot on when the upset members checked. You have to understand and what you're measuring and how to check to keep yourself from being shorted. It's nice to have evidence to support your claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, TallTayl said: Right! If more teachers would have put the concepts into "real world" context more people like me would have connected the dots. The more ways you can apply the concepts the easier the mental calculations become. (And consequently, the more $ we save because we can plan better!) EXACTLY! I taught HS business for 25 yrs. so was able to incorporate the "real world" everyday into class content bt ut would wonder why the math teachers didn't provide more of this in their teaching. Not patting myself on the back as my classes were all naturally geared toward vocational education. The State of MN actually tried to force teachers in all areas to incorporate this into everyone's curriculum. Don't get me started. . . GoldieMN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, GoldieMN said: EXACTLY! I taught HS business for 25 yrs. so was able to incorporate the "real world" everyday into class content bt ut would wonder why the math teachers didn't provide more of this in their teaching. Not patting myself on the back as my classes were all naturally geared toward vocational education. The State of MN actually tried to force teachers in all areas to incorporate this into everyone's curriculum. Don't get me started. . . GoldieMN I wish I had you as a teacher 💕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 @TallTayl After you said that about WSP, I had to check. I hadn't noticed their FO's are by the fl oz... Floored and even more hesitant to order from them. Their prices are already sky high. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 If you look all the others do too. It’s a requirement of weights and measures. You just have to look at the listings and see if the little FL OZ is there to indicate what you’re buying The trick with WSP is to wait for one of their flash sales. They have some awesome bargains if you can wait for the 25 or 35 percent off sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kerven said: @TallTayl After you said that about WSP, I had to check. I hadn't noticed their FO's are by the fl oz... Floored and even more hesitant to order from them. Their prices are already sky high. There are several reasons I don't order from WSP, this just being among the many. I know several people do love them and are happy with them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcandleattic Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, TallTayl said: The trick with WSP is to wait for one of their flash sales. They have some awesome bargains if you can wait for the 25 or 35 percent off sales. I'm too slow with their sales (even if it's just announced minutes prior) by the time I get there, what I want is ALWAYS ALWAYS out of stock on those sales, and back orders don't count for them, so I am always OOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said: I'm too slow with their sales (even if it's just announced minutes prior) by the time I get there, what I want is ALWAYS ALWAYS out of stock on those sales, and back orders don't count for them, so I am always OOL. Yeah it’s a fun game is in it? There are very few things I buy from there but the things that I do need are worth it. Another savings opportunity is to buy the keg. It’s way cheaper. Just sell off the surplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Are their flash sales for members only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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