Cost of Shipping Wax, Worth?

[Scented]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:30 AM, Trappeur said:

Hey Gary,

 

I have no idea what a sand molded candle is even after you described it...lol  Sounds pretty cool....and "back in the day"?.....oh Feces that sounds old....I don't even want to go there....lol

 

Trappeur

This is a sand candle, but usually it has a thicker shell of sand on it. 

[Jcandleattic]

21 hours ago, Valmek said:

 

Using weight as the variable wouldn't make much sense because if I do that then, I would no way be able to fill 3, 8oz candles with just 1 pound of wax then since you say I should go by 16 oz and 3 x 8 = 24oz so really I'm a wizard and I should invest my life somewhere else then with these newfound powers.

 

But those candles do not weigh 8oz. They fill to an 8 fl oz line.  

The standard in this industry is to measure by weight. As TT has pointed out, it's more accurate, more economical, easier to figure out, and when trying to get advice, much easier to get a direct answer. 

 

Measuring by volume is just not accurate, especially when dealing with variable specific gravities of same items, such as fragrance and essential oils.

For example, 1oz volume of a floral FO is not going to be the same as 1oz volume of a bakery FO, however, 1oz weight of each will always be 1oz weight. 

[moonshine]

Take TT's, JC's and Gails advice....you will get no where but backwards using volume trying to figure your costs 

Volume has its use but not in trying to calculate your supplies costs 

Edited January 8, 2018 by moonshine

[Valmek]

If i went by weight to fill my jar and put 8 oz of weight, it'd be overflowing over the top of my 8oz jar. I know the cost of my supplies, I know how I will calculate the cost of selling, which isn't the way everyone else is because everyone else selling candles is selling for WAY too much considering what the cost of the candles are to actually make.

 

I really only made this thread to talk about the shipping costs before purchasing to see if the price was actually correct being so high, not to talk about my supply cost or how I should fill my candles based on weight or volume. I'd close this thread because of this but the moderators already told me no, they won't close the thread. I'm sorry if I sound rude but if I wished to talk about such things I'd make a thread pertaining to it not in a thread i solely made talking about shipping cost.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Valmek

[TallTayl]

2 minutes ago, Valmek said:

If i went by weight to fill my jar and put 8 oz of weight, it'd be overflowing over the top of my 8oz jar. I know the cost of my supplies, I know how I will calculate the cost of selling, which isn't the way everyone else is because everyone else selling candles is selling for WAY too much considering what the cost of the candles are to actually make.

Candles  labeling requires sale by net weight. The specific gravity of wax is less than 1, meaning an 8 oz container will hold (usually) about 6 ounces by weight of wax to a normal fill line. 

 

Example: my wax blend has a specific gravity of .92, meaning it is 8% less dense than water at sea level. 

8 fluid ounces of my wax weighs 8 x 0.92 = 7.36 ounces.

 

To figure out how much wax you need, fill a container with water. Weight the water. Multiply that number by the specific gravity of your wax. Presto you know how much to add to the pouring pot. If you scent your wax at 6% multiply that amount of wax by 0.06 and again presto, you know how much to add to the pot. It truly is accurate and simple. That is why the candle industry, and pretty much all manufacturing operations the world over use weight versus cup measure. 

 

this is extremely important for production if you ever want to scale up or offer additional candle sizes. There no way to accurately measure 1.04 teaspoons of an ingredient. Bakeries even use weight because it is scalable and accurate.

 

moreover, when you have raw materials sitting on the shelf, how would you know how many candles you can make by the look of a box or bottle? Weigh the container and you immediately know how many candles you can make. I just can fathom the idea of having to sit with cups and teaspoons to see if I have enough wax or fragrance to produce the right quantity of candles to satisfy an order. 

 

 

[Valmek]

So you are pretty much telling me to fill everyone of my jars exactly how this one is in this picture. I'm not barley "8oz weight" in as what you say and I'm already at the top of the jar.

 

 

[TallTayl]

1 minute ago, Valmek said:

So you are pretty much telling me to fill everyone of my jars exactly how this one is in this picture. I'm not barley "8oz weight" in as what you say and I'm already at the top of the jar.

 

 

It seems like you are intentionally misunderstanding the advice given. No, that is not what *any* of us has said. 

If you are selling a candle, you need to list the weight of the wax in the candle, not the volume. 

 

Please re-read what each of us has written above and then think about it a bit. 

 

Then go go look at other weights and measures threads about candle manufacturing. Literally everyone weighs the wax and fragrance. Nobody sells by volume as it is against labeling laws. 

[Valmek]

Just now, TallTayl said:

It seems like you are intentionally misunderstanding the advice given. No, that is not what *any* of us has said. 

If you are selling a candle, you need to list the weight of the wax in the candle, not the volume. 

 

Please re-read what each of us has written above and then think about it a bit. 

 

Then go go look at other weights and measures threads about candle manufacturing. Literally everyone weighs the wax and fragrance. Nobody sells by volume as it is against labeling laws. 

 

You guys said fill the jar by weight. Use 8oz of weight not volume. I measured the jar 7oz. I measured this particular jar, 14.8oz. That's almost 8oz weight of wax. 

 

And I'm definitely not understanding what you guys are saying because I'm talking about candles and you guys are references bakeries, the gravity of water, the sea level, tablespoons and measuring cups.

[TallTayl]

Yes. Fill the jar by weight. 

 

A cup of wax weighs less than a cup of water. 

your 7 oz jar will require about 6-6.5 weighed ounces of wax and fragrance combined. 

 

To figure out out exactly how much:

 weigh your jar.

Tare the scale, 

fill your jar to what you choose as your fill line.

Weigh it.

Multiply that number that the water weighs by .92 (or whatever the specific gravity is for your wax. That is how many weighed ounces of wax should fill your jar. 

 

To find the spcific gravity of your wax, google specific gravity of (xyz wax) where xyz is the brand of wax you use. The information is available by each manufacturer.

[TallTayl]

Even easier.

 

weigh an empty one of your jars.

 

Tare the scale.

 

Then weigh it properly filled one.

 

That is the amount of wax and fragrance in that jar.  that is the amount that goes on the label. 

[Valmek]

You make no sense at all. I need 8oz to label the candle as 8oz candle but you say put 6oz I'm not making a 6oz candle, I'm making a 8oz candle. The picture I put shows it filled up with 8oz

 

. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME. 

 

That one is filled with 8oz almost to the brim of the candle jar, I should label it as 8oz candle. You are telling me to put 6oz of wax instead and label as 8oz candle. THEN you are telling me to fill one up and label as the difference. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Valmek

[TallTayl]

Weigh your candle. 

 

Subtract the the weight of the jar

 

that is the amount of product you are selling. 

[Valmek]

Just now, TallTayl said:

Weigh your candle. 

 

Subtract the the weight of the jar

 

that is the amount of product you are selling. 

 

 

But i'm selling 8 oz candle and the picture is 8oz candle filled with 8oz of weight NOT VOLUME AS I'VE JUST MENTIONED PAST COUPLE OF COMMENTS. After i included the picture you assumed I was intentionally being an asshole to you "i know not they exact words" and giving you a hard time. That is 8oz of weight in the jar and you are pretty much telling me that the candle in the picture shouldn't look like that, so what the hell do I do then. You are confusing teh hell out of me by telling me the 8oz candle I've included as a picture is not what should look like.

[TallTayl]

What you are doing is attempting to labrl by fluid volume.

 

The candle is not a fluid.

 

If I remember correctly you’re in Canada. I would strongly advise you to look up the laws for labeling in Canada before you attempt to sell. The way that you are doing it now will get you in some serious hot water.

[TallTayl]

I don’t think anyone can put it any simpler than this:

 

take a candle that you have made that pleases you poured to your preferred level.

 

Weigh it. 

 

 Subtract the weight of the jar.

 

That is the amount of candle you are selling.

 

There is no simpler way of putting it.

 

[Valmek]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

What you are doing is attempting to labrl by fluid volume.

 

The candle is not a fluid.

 

If I remember correctly you’re in Canada. I would strongly advise you to look up the laws for labeling in Canada before you attempt to sell. The way that you are doing it now will get you in some serious hot water.

 

You are really starting to piss me off. I have told you several Farfegnugening times that the candle in the damn picture is by weight. WEIGHT WEIGHT WEIGHT NOT VOLUME. 8 OUNCES OF WEIGHT NOT 8 OUNCES OF VOLUME. I understand you are telling me to do by weight I get that, I haven't been talking about volume at all since i first put the message up over an hour ago but you apparently think I am still using volume not weight.

 

What I'm trying to tell you now, that picture with the damn candle in it, it should look like that then??????? It's fill with 8 OUNCES OF WEIGHT NOT VOLUME. It doesn't seem right to me as it's almost over the top. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOU.

 

No i don't live in Canada, I never said where I lived but I live in the United States.

[Valmek]

Here, does this help you finally understand that I'm not talking about volume anymore so we can finally get past that part. 7.1 ounces empty, 15 ounces filled, that's 8 ounces and that is the same candle in the picture I showed earlier almost to the brim of the candle jar.

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Valmek

[TallTayl]

 

You need to learn, and understand, the legal requirements of the venture you are entering. 

 

One last time.... Choose a jar that *you filled that pleases you*. 

Weigh it.

subtract your jar weight.

that is the net weight of the candle.

that net weight is required legally on your label.

 

 

 

[Sebleo]

10 minutes ago, Valmek said:

What I'm trying to tell you now, that picture with the damn candle in it, it should look like that then??????? It's fill with 8 OUNCES OF WEIGHT NOT VOLUME. It doesn't seem right to me as it's almost over the top.

 

You are on the right page with everyone now as far as weight of the candle. No, you don't want to fill it that high.  Back it off to where you are comfortable with the fill and then weigh it. So, you may have a 7oz or 7.5 Oz candle. 

[Kerven]

Looks a little too close to the rim to me. If the neck narrows any, you might want to stop pouring at that point, otherwise the narrowed section will form a melt pool much quicker than the rest of the candle.

 

One issue that I run into is that many suppliers often say their jars are "8oz" or "9oz" or "12oz" or etc., but what they fail to mention is that those are the manufacturer measurements, which are fluid oz and not oz by weight. So, an 8floz jar isn't going to hold 8oz by weight of wax exactly. Then again, you have other suppliers who offer products and "wax weight" and "fill line" and "overflow" measurements... of course, different waxes have different volume to weight ratios... So, in the end, you do have to make a few test pours to get things measured right. After that, it's just a matter of editing the label for total weight of candle minus the empty jar's weight. You can always label less than the actual weight... or so I've read.

 

Not to nitpick, but just a suggestion, if the overall weight of the completed candle is 15oz and the empty jar is 7.1oz, that's 7.9oz of product in the jar. If you label at 8oz, someone might have the nerve to go through the trouble of checking and that tenth of an oz might be more trouble than its worth.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Kerven

[TallTayl]

That overfilled candle is 7.3 ounces. Total weight minus the weight of the container. That is the weight you would put on the label by law. 

 

If you spdont don't want it filled that much, don't. Fill it. Weigh it, subtract the weight of the jar to find the net weight. 

 

You will never ever have a candle labeled as net weight 8 ounces in an 8 ounce by volume container. 

 

Look around your house for stuff you buy at the store. It will be labeled consistently by the type of product it is. Liquid oils are sold by fluid ounces (the volume of liquid in the bottle).  Solids are sold by net weight. A steak, for instance would be weighed. A bag of sugar is weighed.  Bag of flour is weighed. A box of cereal is weighed. A bottle of vinegar is fluid ounces. 

[Valmek]

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

That overfilled candle is 7.3 ounces. Total weight minus the weight of the container. That is the weight you would put on the label by law. 

 

You will never ever have a candle labeled as net weight 8 ounces in an 8 ounce by volume container. 

 

15-7.1=7.9  so how is it 7.3 ounces? Also i don't see why you are so persistent on continuing with the fact I said volume earlier. I knew what you meant and therefor and have been saying weight not volume but you can't get that into your head I'm talking about weight, not volume.

 

As Sebleo mentioned, should probably be around 7oz as I do not want it filled that high in the jar but I was looking for 8 ounces so I will have to dim down the WEIGHT  to accommodate towards the neck of the jar. I was trying to ask if the candle looked right as I filled with my desired weight 8 ounces and almost to the top but you persisted on ignoring that and continue to want to talk about how I used volume earlier not weight which I clearly understand and why I measured the candle in the picture with pound/ounces not fl oz.

[Jcandleattic]

It seems to me you are hung up on 8oz. because it is an 8oz jar. 

 

Let's for a moment completely forget about what size the jar is, or how much volume it will or will not hold.  Throw that knowledge out the window, because the way we are trying to get you to understand really has NOTHING to do with the size of the jar at all. It can be ANY SIZE JAR. 

 

As TT has continued to say - weigh your jar. Doesn't matter what size jar it is - use different sized jars, DOES NOT MATTER - just weigh the jar you are going to make your candle in.  

Now, make your candle as you normally would, and fill to however full you feel you want to fill it. DOES NOT MATTER HOW FULL, just do it the way you normally would before this thread ever came up. 

Now, weigh that candle again, and then subtract the weight of the jar. THIS is the total NET WEIGHT of your product INSIDE that jar. That is the weight (nt. weight) that will go on your label, and what is required to be on your label when selling per US labelling laws. 

 

Nobody can make you follow these rules, however, if the FDA, or anyone else comes knocking on your door about your labels, you are going to need a better explanation than "I pour by volume" because they will not take that as an answer. 

 

I hope this explanation helped a bit more.

If not, I really don't know how else to educate you, but being snarky to those of us trying to help you, is really not helping, no matter how angry you are getting. 

 

[GoldieMN]

@Valmek Your question:  "I was trying to ask if the candle looked right as I filled with my desired weight 8 ounces and almost to the top"

 

If it were me, I would fill to the curve.  Any higher than the middle of the curve, test to see how hot they get.  I use 16 ounce jars and the weight on the "filled" jar is 12 ounces.

 

 

GoldieMN

[moonshine]

3 hours ago, Valmek said:

 

You are really starting to piss me off. I have told you several Farfegnugening times that the candle in the damn picture is by weight. WEIGHT WEIGHT WEIGHT NOT VOLUME. 8 OUNCES OF WEIGHT NOT 8 OUNCES OF VOLUME. I understand you are telling me to do by weight I get that, I haven't been talking about volume at all since i first put the message up over an hour ago but you apparently think I am still using volume not weight.

 

What I'm trying to tell you now, that picture with the damn candle in it, it should look like that then??????? It's fill with 8 OUNCES OF WEIGHT NOT VOLUME. It doesn't seem right to me as it's almost over the top. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOU.

 

No i don't live in Canada, I never said where I lived but I live in the United States.

You need to slow your roll there buddy and show a little respect-  Being a complete Potty mouth and basically screaming at one of the most educated, successful and experienced chandlers on this forum is not only rude but making you look like a kindergarten brat!

 

You are totally STUCK on wanting a 8 ounce candle so here is some new advice.... Go buy a BIGGER jar and fill it to 8 ounces and BOOM-  you got your 8 ounce candle not filled to high to your liking

 

If your wanting to use that jar you are not going to be able to sell a 8 ounce candle in it-  7 to maybe 7.5 ounces is all your going to get out of that at a comfortable fill level, it should be just up to the neck for proper air flow and circulation