What do YOU do about weak CT?

[bfroberts]

I have a fragrance that I am determined to add to my fall/winter line, but it has virtually no cold throw whatsoever.  The hot throw, however, is excellent.  It's a unique (to my line) scent, and I know it will be a customer favorite IF someone will buy a candle with no CT.  What do you guys do in this situation?  I know I could rub a little FO on top or something like that, but I don't know how I feel about doing that.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Moonstar]

Id like to start off by saying thank you so much for the RE sample - just received it today. Didn't you say you sell your items in a store type setting at 

your business ? If so, Im sure you've already thought of just lighting one of the candles during busy times such as weekends ? Thanks again  

[TallTayl]

Make a scratch and sniff label that describes how the scent blooms when lit?

[bfroberts]

31 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

Id like to start off by saying thank you so much for the RE sample - just received it today. Didn't you say you sell your items in a store type setting at 

your business ? If so, Im sure you've already thought of just lighting one of the candles during busy times such as weekends ? Thanks again  

 

You're welcome for the sample.  I hope it made the trip without leaking.
 

We do keep a candle burning in the store, and I had thought I could just burn that one often.  It's the best way I've found to introduce customers to scents they wouldn't otherwise try.  If nothing is burning and the customer is left to buy based on cold throw, 8 out of 10 customers will smell everything and then buy something apple.  But I can burn something totally different....like Oakmoss & Amber...and that same customer will say, "I want the one you are burning."  I guess when in doubt they stick with something safe.  So I guess I could just burn a whole lot of these to get the exposure out there, but they are probably still gonna pick up a fresh one and sniff it, and they aren't gonna smell anything.  Ugh.  I really love this scent, but no cold throw is bumming me out.  It's hard to believe that a candle with such a strong HT has absolutely no CT at all.  It's the weirdest thing.

[Candybee]

I think for this one fragrance you just have to make an extra candle or a couple of melts to burn in your shop. Sometimes you just gotta do whatever it take to sell a product.

 

I do find that whatever sample candle I am burning I tend to sell out of that the same day so burning a sample works.

[Moonstar]

It did make it safely. You packed it so nicely ?? and if you want some of the VBN from WSP please just 

let me know. It's the least I can do to repay your kind gesture  

BTW what FO has the CT issue ?

what about Talltayl's post on adding FO to salt & placing that in 

a scentsy type warmer. I tried that and it works really well. 

[bfroberts]

27 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

It did make it safely. You packed it so nicely ?? and if you want some of the VBN from WSP please just 

let me know. It's the least I can do to repay your kind gesture  

BTW what FO has the CT issue ?

what about Talltayl's post on adding FO to salt & placing that in 

a scentsy type warmer. I tried that and it works really well. 

 

Thank you for the offer.  I have pondered it.  I really do not have room for anything else in my lineup, and even though I would like to sniff it, it isn't worth you going to the trouble since I am really, really, really NOT going to add anything else.  I hope. 

The scent I am having problems with is Blueberry Pumpkin Patch from Aztec.  Nothing new, but new to me.  It is just lovely.  Up close, I smell the pumpkin, but it's the blueberry that wafts through the house.  It's just one of those feel good scents.  I ordered it on a whim when they had their Labor Day sale, and I fell in love with it.  I don't have anything quite like it in my fall/winter lineup.  It's a powerful thrower, and one 8oz mason scents my whole house (one story).  Just no cold throw.  At all.  I guess I'll just be burning a lot of it in the store for the next couple of months....LOL.
On a related note, on the same whim I also ordered Leaves (Slatkin/BBW dupe) during that sale, and it's a pretty great fall scent as well.

[Scented]

So what I do is this ... 

Go back through my formula and did I add the right amount of fragrance? Have I let it set long enough to pull itself back together as unit ... i.e. it has set for at least 24 hours for the wax I use. 

If I did all of the above and it doesn't have any throw, I'm outta the room for a bit till my nose returns to normal and I'll go for testing the sniffer again. 

Still no throw ... I'm committing the fragrance to something else ... 1) would it work in incense? 2) would it work better in melts (probably not)? 3) Is it body safe and could I pull it off in say a bath bomb instead? 4) Give it a bad review for my wax mix (which is supposed to throw everything) and go looking for someone else that carries this fragrance. 5) Buy it at the other place(s) I find it if I can't find reviews not on the supplier's site about it. 6) Try again. 

IF the fragrance won't work in incense, melts, bombs then I'm thinking about what kind of mixer could it make and/or what I can use to try to enhance it ... and I'm making notes not to buy it again from where I got it, because I don't really like to waste money, even though I'm guilty of doing so. 

 

So what was the fragrance and from where? 

[Scented]

Now I'm going to add the following: 

1) I'm a candlemaker who would like to make money on my product, yes, but I have to pretend I might be a customer and if I can't smell it ... if it has no cold throw ... It does not have my attention and I don't care how much you tell me it blossoms when lit, I'm leaving it on your shelf. 

2) I'm a candlemaker and a well-made product doesn't include extras ... i.e. I'm not wiping or dropping scent on the candle anywhere. Unless you box it, I'm not scratching and sniffing either. The nose simply has to be engaged 99.9% of the time ... unless you're into the design of the candle ... saying you have a design (which you would just by having it in a container if it's a jar candle) or you layer your wax or you do something else to your wax that I call play (but making pillars makes playing easy at times with various techniques.)

3) I'm just not for trying to fool (lack of a better word) the people, because I want that particular person to come back to me. Sometimes we think everything is going to work for us and so let me ask what your thought is about not having CT? Are you disappointed or giddy with excitement? I'm not being snarky about this. If you're disappointed in the end result, then you try again to get an end result that pleases you! In this market of candles, soap and this and that ... there's enough lies and deception out there. Please don't add to it. 

[bfroberts]

Scented, thank you for your reply.  I am very pleased with the HT and the burn of this fragrance.  It is Blueberry Pumpkin Patch from Aztec.  It's a pretty powerful thrower, and it is a nice scent that I would really like to include in my line.  I was just really thrown by the lack of CT, since this one does have a strong HT.  The funny thing is, the candles I have poured and have not burned have no CT, and this is after a 2 week cure.  BUT if I sniff a previously burned candle in this FO when it is cold, there is a moderate CT.  I use 1 oz. PP, as that is what I normally stick to. 

 

I use 6006, and cold throw has left me disappointed with this wax before.  I know it's a good FO, and I know the customer will be pleased with the *burning* candle, but like you said, I doubt they will buy it if they pick it up in the store and can't smell it.  I think I'll pour some clams with a higher fragrance load and see if they have a better CT. 

[kandlekrazy]

I think if your burning it in the store many will purchase just because they like the ht and won't even take the time to sniff it cold, at least that's what I've found with melts.  I've never really experienced zero ct but some are lighter and then have a great ht when burning.  I just try to burn those often and they sell.

[Moonstar]

2 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Scented, thank you for your reply.  I am very pleased with the HT and the burn of this fragrance.  It is Blueberry Pumpkin Patch from Aztec.  It's a pretty powerful thrower, and it is a nice scent that I would really like to include in my line.  I was just really thrown by the lack of CT, since this one does have a strong HT.  The funny thing is, the candles I have poured and have not burned have no CT, and this is after a 2 week cure.  BUT if I sniff a previously burned candle in this FO when it is cold, there is a moderate CT.  I use 1 oz. PP, as that is what I normally stick to. 

 

I use 6006, and cold throw has left me disappointed with this wax before.  I know it's a good FO, and I know the customer will be pleased with the *burning* candle, but like you said, I doubt they will buy it if they pick it up in the store and can't smell it.  I think I'll pour some clams with a higher fragrance load and see if they have a better CT. 

Check your mail either Monday or Tuesday ... mums the word  LMBO  ! 

[Terry]

For me personally I would not purchase a candle that I could not get a whiff of cold.  I am also currently experiencing this situation with a FO I purchased from EBB called Lavender Martini.  Made two weeks ago today with 6006 and, darn, it doesn't have a pinch of cold throw even with sticking my nose right in the jar, so disappointing...  I personally would not add a scent with no cold throw to my lineup.  Assuming you don't want to try it in another type of wax I would keep it in my personal scent collection 

[TallTayl]

Do your jars have lids? If so, Could you put a drop of the FO under the lid so when people lift the lid they get the sniff? Or is it weak OOB too?

[wthomas57]

I use 6006 as well and have also tested the Blueberry Pumpkin Patch from Aztec.

Here is what I found:

 

HT was strong although I really only smell blueberry (like blueberry pancakes)... no pumpkin.

CT I thought was ok.... but still mostly blueberry. Ive definitely had others with weaker CT though.

 

I am with you though... I am trying to find ways to better give potential customers a whiff of the scent. If lids are on all the time, and they simply take lid off to smell... its no big deal. Lids on keep scent trapped in nicely and then its a little fragrance explosion when lid is taken off. However, if no lid or once the lid is off for a bit.. you are right, the CT is often very faint. Its frustrating. So I, as well, am trying to come up with other methods.

 

fragrance blotter strips, little sample tins that seem to hold scent in better for whatever reason.

Keep melts burning around, etc.

 

Im open to more ideas as well.

 

[bfroberts]

17 minutes ago, wthomas57 said:

I use 6006 as well and have also tested the Blueberry Pumpkin Patch from Aztec.

Here is what I found:

 

HT was strong although I really only smell blueberry (like blueberry pancakes)... no pumpkin.

CT I thought was ok.... but still mostly blueberry. Ive definitely had others with weaker CT though.

 

I am with you though... I am trying to find ways to better give potential customers a whiff of the scent. If lids are on all the time, and they simply take lid off to smell... its no big deal. Lids on keep scent trapped in nicely and then its a little fragrance explosion when lid is taken off. However, if no lid or once the lid is off for a bit.. you are right, the CT is often very faint. Its frustrating. So I, as well, am trying to come up with other methods.

 

fragrance blotter strips, little sample tins that seem to hold scent in better for whatever reason.

Keep melts burning around, etc.

 

Im open to more ideas as well.

 

 

I've kind of isolated this problem to my status jars with wooden lids.  Candles poured in my mason jars, both 8oz and 16oz, have a bit better CT with this fragrance.  I've sold a few.  I am going to pour this FO in palm today and see what kind of CT I get with that. 

It's funny our different perceptions of a scent.  What I like about this FO is that I catch a different scent depending on where I am in relation to the burning candle.  The blueberry is dominant, as I've found with any blueberry blend, but as I burn the candle, I catch different notes at different times, and I like that.  I'm not a huge fan of all the spice that is so prevalent in fall/winter scents, and this fragrance offers something different.  I just love it.

 

In order to keep grubby hands from opening all my clamshells, I pour each scent into portion cups that are labeled as sniffers.  They sit on the shelf in front of the clams, and I tape the clams shut.  I sell right many, so I don't think not being able to open the clamshell package has deterred too many potential customers.  No matter what I do though, they want to open a candle.  I think sales would be diminished if they couldn't.  I guess that's because it's a bigger investment.

 

My biggest complaint about 6006 is weak CT.  Oh, and those darn holes I get when I pour into 8oz masons.  Do you get those?  If I could figure out a way to prevent those, life would be soooo much easier.

[wthomas57]

I agree with you on the Blueberry pumpking. I also get a little bored of all the similar spice scents (although I still sell a ton of them). Personally I like the blueberry a lot as well. And I do agree I occasionally get different whiffs of something else and I also like that. But every nose is different. My wife said she smelled no pumpkin. My mother said she definitely smelled pumpkin, ha!

 

I like your portion cup idea... Ill need to try that. 

You are 100% right about people wanting to open candles and smell. I do it myself... every time!  

 

So regarding 6006... its strange man. I have some scents that really dont have a strong CT. But overall... its ok and I haven't been too worried about it. Others have better CT but I dislike everything else about the wax moreso. For example... 4627. The only thing i like a bit better is the throw. Thats it. and I wouldn't call it a substantial difference. 6006 takes much longer to cure as well so that is also another drawback. But my CT tends to improve longer its sitting. Maybe I am imagining that.

 

As far as the sinkholes. I have another candle making buddy (on this forum as well) who said he fights those sink holes as well. We go back and forth on this all the time because its making him want to quit on 6006. But, personally.. I just dont have those issues. I dont know what we are doing differently.

 

Here is my setup and process... maybe this can help a bit:

 

• My pouring area has heat lamps that I made a pully system with overhead. ( I have pictures on a thread about workshop setup if that helps)
• I preheat my jars by lowering the lamps
• heat wax to 190 -200
• add FO at 185 roughly and stir for a few minutes
• add dye and mix until somewhere between 165-170
• raise the lamps up and wick the jars if haven't already
• pour at 165-170
• I also wrap my containers or put them in shallow boxes lined with the same fabric i occasionally wrap with.
• I got this heat reflecting fabric from Joann's. How much it helps keep heat in? Cant tell ya.. but it cant possibly hurt.
• I lid as soon as possible (more so to keep debris out of candle and keep scent in... dont think it affects holes much)

most of the time.. i have no holes.. or at least so minimal its not a big deal.

 

IF I do have any candles with any holes, dips or imperfections (me messing with wick too much for example), then I simply lower the lamps back down for about 30 seconds or a minute. Boom. Fixed and all done.

 

Hope this helps a bit. 

[bfroberts]

Oh gosh, I have tried everything to eliminate these holes.  I've poured at every temp between 150 and 185.  I warm my jars and insulate and cover, and no matter what, I get holes in about 75% of the 8oz masons I pour. I never get holes in status, apothecary or 16oz masons.  It's the damnedest thing.  I pour very few 8oz for this reason.  I just poured 2 cases for a customer order and I noticed something....when I group the jars together to cool slower, the holes always form on the side touching another jar, right at the edge of the jar.  Having them separate doesn't eliminate the holes, but they do form in a different spot.  It's killing me.  I'm doubling my work load with the repours I'm having to do.  I'm glad you don't get them often, because I wouldn't wish this on anyone....LOL

[wthomas57]

I am basically hearing same thing from me. Guess I been lucky.

Like I said.. Ill occaisonally get little dips in the middle. But nothign a quick shot of heat on the top doesn't fix.

 

Try filling a tad more than you normally do. Then reheat the tops to even out. This may help avoid having to do a repour.

I cant tell you last time Ive had to do a second pour. Probably just jinxed myself. 

[Chefmom]

Well...I love 6006 and I use it for lots of candles, scented and unscented and my container of choice in the beginning was 8 ounce jelly jars.  I have absolutely no advise to give except letting you all know that I get those little holes too and nothing I've done has fixed it.  I can pour side by side a little straight sided 7 ounce tumbler with the same diameter as the jelly jar and the tumbler is perfect...jelly jar has the hole next to the wick. I've just learned to live with it and take a thin knitting needle and a heat gun to plug it up. 

 

I've read that a lot of Potter's keep a Buddha next to their kilns and they rub his belly before every fire. 

Maybe I need a studio Buddha.

 

[wthomas57]

haha.... 

 

you all have me nervous now. I know what you are all referring to.. but I RARELY get a hole of any kind.

easy to correct if I do... but I rarely do. Heck... over the past several batches, around 100 candles, I haven't had one.

I know it depends on the jars. But haven't ahd issues with masons or tumblers. Wicking the tumblers on the other hand has taken more of my time and concern.

 

but as for the holes...

 

I make sure my jars are clean, pull wicks straight but not too tight, poor slowly around 170 or little less. The only other thing I do that hasn't been mentioned so far is gently tap my jars with wick trimmer (or whatever) to assist in releasing any tiny air bubbles, etc. Not sure if it actually helps.

 

Are you all insulating under your as jars as well? The same material I use around the jars when settling, I also have underneath the candles. Most sinkholes, etc are caused by bottom cooling at faster rate because of the surface underneath pulling the heat out faster. Maybe that is why I dont have the sinkhole issue? (Pouring on metal surface helps with that as well)

[Ray]

If I didn't get a sink hole in my candles I would be scared I did something wrong! I once made a tester with with no sink hole...after letting it sit, I lit it up and within a minute the wick tunneled down halfway down the jar. There was a tin layer of hardened wax covering the sink hole (air pocket). Now if I didn't get a sink hole I would be poking a skewer into the candle to make sure there was no air pocket!

[wthomas57]

I agree... which is why I tap the glass as well. also moving the wicks around slighly while its settling fixes that.

And when I say I dont have a sinkhole problem... I am referring to the extent of the problem they are all talking about.

All wax shrinks/sinks a bit. How bad or how noticeably is the question. Mine is never bad enough to warrant a second pour.

6006 is even described as a single pour (under optimal conditions).  Now I will reheat the tops a bit to even them out if there is a little

sinkage in the middle.... but having giant holes around the wick?? I haven't had that problem in quite some time. I wouldn't consider the lack

of giant holes around the wick as a symptom of a bad candle.

 

I take lots of measures to minimize shrinking and also air pockets. And I do often poke relief holes "just in case".

[Moonstar]

Wow I wonder what it is about the 

8 oz mason jars. Are they the shorter square ones from CS?

 

[wthomas57]

This may be a stretch... but I wonder if the side walls are thicker then the bottom. Seems like a bad way to design something, but perhaps that is why.

I use the slightly smaller anchor hocking masons (they are called 1/2 pint but I sell them as 5oz candles). They are same diameter and only a bit smaller and

do not have the crazy holes or sinkage issues. I have it more on tumblers than the masons myself.