Trouble with lather

[Candybee]

I am not getting the lather I want out of my milk soaps. I read on another forum that this is not an uncommon problem with milk soaps. The consensus seemed to be to lower lye %.

I had been using 7% lye discount. After reading about it I started making them at 5% discount and also lowering my milk content by an oz or two.

Could it be that simple? Should I lower my discount even further? I hate having low lather so I hope this helps.

I also use castor oil in my soap. Now I'm wondering if I should lower my castor oil to 5%. I had been using anywhere from 7-10% in my recipes. Wouldn't lowering the % help out with getting rid of that slick slippery feel when the soap is wet? Its not exactly slimy but close enough.

Any help to improve my lather and that too slick feeling would be appreciated.

[MoonShadow]

I only use 5% castor. I noticed adding avocado oil to my coconut milk recipe really helped with lather.

[ChrisR]

Don't know your exact recipe, but I use 100% goat's milk for some CP soap & 100% hemp milk (I make myself) for other CP soap, use 7% lye mix, no castor at all and have wonderful bubbly soap. I personally don't think lowering the lye mix helps at all with bubbles, as I've never seen a difference. My go to recipe is: olive oil, avocado oil, mango butter, babassu & palm kernel, no coconut as my skin hates it.

[Barbara AL]

I tend to stick with 5% castor and I use Babassu for bubbly lather.

[Candybee]

I use olive oil, coconut oil, palm kernal oil, shea butter, and castor oil. When I plug in the recipe in soapcalc it shows I should be getting lots of bubbly and creamy lather.

I used to get tons of lather before I started adding milk. I've got to figure this out as I'm not really sure what to do.

My recipe is:

OO 45%

CO 20%

PKO 13%

Shea 10%

Castor 12%

Sometimes I add SAO or Grapeseed or Avocado and just lower my shea and castor so I can add the extra oil @ 5%. Its hard to adjust the CO and PKO as more just tips the cleansing over 22. I don't want my soap to be harsh.

[quietgirl2004]

I would lower the castor to 5%. Try to do a 50/50 or 60/40 with hard oils and soft oils/ Your recipe is similiar(not exactly) to mine and I got lots of lather

[TallTayl]

I use 100% milks and a 7-8% sf. I get loads of lather.

Castor is one oil that has some synergy with other soapings oils. I have noticed diminishing returns with it at higher than about 3%. Castor as a single oil does not lather worth a darn.

In last year's lather lovers swap, we used 50% olive, 25% coconut and 25% palm to test 25 additives. The soap in this video is only about 2 weeks old, yet it lathered great from day 1 at 8% superfat and 100% fresh goat milk.

[Kitn]

I add 1/8 cup of sugar PPO to every batch, I add it to the lye water before the lye, make sure it is dissolved, then add the lye..

[ChrisR]

I use Soapmaker, not the calc. you use and it is the castor bringing down your bubbly. Take the 5% castor and add it to your olive oil & PKO and it will bring up the bubbly and still not be harsh. Or add the 5% in avocado, which should also give you good results.

Recipe:

OO 48%

CO 20%

PKO 17%

Shea 10%

Castor 5%

[Candybee]

Thank you, thank you, thank you all! I see there are some simple adjustments I can make.

I do have a question for TallTayl re that great lather swap recipe. What was the cleansing factor on that? It seems that would be a high cleansing? I know with PKO if I use a 50/50 soft to hard oil recipe with my hard oils PKO and CO at 25% each then the cleansing factor is way high.

BTW-- I suspected that castor oil was having at least a partial effect on the lather but I have read in so many places about how it increases creamy lather so I was upping my castor and consequently soapcalc would show it also increased my creamy lather.

So I am going to adjust my recipe by lowering the castor and upping the hard oils I use; PKO and CO. I would love to use Babassu but its a bit pricey for me at this time.

Also, about milk-- if I adjust my oils in my recipe I should not have to lower my milk? I can still use full milk?

[ChrisR]

Yes you can still use full milk and still use 7% lye also if that's what you want. The sugars in your milk will actually help with the bubbly also. Have fun!!

[Candybee]

Yes you can still use full milk and still use 7% lye also if that's what you want. The sugars in your milk will actually help with the bubbly also. Have fun!!

Thanks! its nice to know I can still use full milk. I can't wait to try out my revised soap recipe.

[chuck_35550]

Sometimes the numbers don't accurately reflect the quality of the soap. Quite Girl's recipe is a great example of how the numbers don't look right but it's still my favorite recipe by far. I find myself taking a bar of that recipe and a bar of my recipe for Oatmeal and using them together in the bath, lol. I've kicked around the idea of making two batches and pouring half of each into the mold for a sort of combo bar but don't be so ruled by making the numbers work in your recipes. I use full milk and often use multiple kinds of milk in the same recipe and get great lather. I've never had much luck with sugar or salt in my recipes. HTH

Steve

[ChandlerWicks]

Could I have QuietGirls recipe, please? This feels like Deja Vue, if someone gave it to me before, I apologize in advance! I seem to remember asking before, but can't find it if it did happen.

Sometimes the numbers don't accurately reflect the quality of the soap. Quite Girl's recipe is a great example of how the numbers don't look right but it's still my favorite recipe by far. I find myself taking a bar of that recipe and a bar of my recipe for Oatmeal and using them together in the bath, lol. I've kicked around the idea of making two batches and pouring half of each into the mold for a sort of combo bar but don't be so ruled by making the numbers work in your recipes. I use full milk and often use multiple kinds of milk in the same recipe and get great lather. I've never had much luck with sugar or salt in my recipes. HTH

Steve

Edited April 17, 2013 by ChandlerWicks

[Candybee]

Its only been a couple of weeks since I revised my recipe but already I have noticed a big diff. I now only use 5% castor oil and 5% avocado oil. Even thou the soaps are still curing I took a sample bar and tried it and already it lathers better than my old recipe. Thanks everyone!

Chandlerwicks - Quietgirls recipe is in the B&B recipe forum. If I can find it I will post it for you.

[cmzaha]

Thank you, thank you, thank you all! I see there are some simple adjustments I can make.

I do have a question for TallTayl re that great lather swap recipe. What was the cleansing factor on that? It seems that would be a high cleansing? I know with PKO if I use a 50/50 soft to hard oil recipe with my hard oils PKO and CO at 25% each then the cleansing factor is way high.

BTW-- I suspected that castor oil was having at least a partial effect on the lather but I have read in so many places about how it increases creamy lather so I was upping my castor and consequently soapcalc would show it also increased my creamy lather.

So I am going to adjust my recipe by lowering the castor and upping the hard oils I use; PKO and CO. I would love to use Babassu but its a bit pricey for me at this time.

Also, about milk-- if I adjust my oils in my recipe I should not have to lower my milk? I can still use full milk?

PKO and CO are both high lather cleansing oils. Castor is a funny animal, to much and it works the opposite and no longer supports bubbles. I agree with TallTayl castor is not bubbly on its own. I make 100% castor ls soap paste and it has zip lather, I just used it for blending my ls bases. I make many many milk soaps and have no problem with lather. I do add in powdered sugar to my additional liquids. (I soap 50/50 lye solution). If adding sugar to your lye solution dissolve the sugar in your liquid thoroughly before adding in you lye, otherwise you will risk having crystalized sugar in the bottom of you lye mix