What did I do?

[AkainePSP]

I am sure this has happened to someone at some point and time.Maybe I'm just not using the right words to search. I am new poured my first container candles last night. I used ecosoya container blend wax and added vubar and stearic acid to it. When I poured the candle everything looked ok but as it started to harden the center began to crack and left a hole. What have I done wrong?

Kelly

[kimmeroo]

I use GB415 no additives just color and fo and my tops ALWAYS look like that! I have tried crisco..nothing,I just bought some coconut oil to try....so we will see!

You know,I am starting to wonder if it's the fo's!!! I have even tried w/o color...just fo and still the same!Then I tried nothing at all...no cracks!!HMMMMM.

Kimmeroo

[TxSioux]

I don't work w/ that wax, but I'll take a guess. Did you fill the whole container w/ one pour? I pour my soy in layers, or it will sink as it cools. I'd suggest poking relief holes around the wick & top it off w/ a final layer for a smooth finish w/ no air pockets. One pour waxes are not always one pours! I never had this problem till I started using additives. Also, keep in mind the cooler weather helps soy play more tricks on you. I've seen a lot of people think they have soy conquered, then post pics like yours when Winter rolls in. Your candle looks very nice, other than the sinkhole!

Susan.

[Wick'n'Wax]

I use ecosoy cb135, with no additives. When its nearly set up I poke a few holes and then do a final repour. I pour at about 125. hth

[AkainePSP]

I will try pouring at a lower temp and poking a few holes in the top. Should I attempt to do this without the additives?

I pour my soy in layers, or it will sink as it cools. I'd suggest poking relief holes around the wick & top it off w/ a final layer for a smooth finish w/ no air pockets.

When you say you pour in layers do you allow the wax to completely cool before pouring the next layer? And when do I remove the wick holder?

[topofmurrayhill]

Forget layers and holes. It's the additives that did that. Leave them out and start by following the instructions here. http://www.ngiwax.com/UsingEcoSoya/CBTips.php

[Fern]

As the others have said before me, you definately want to poke relief holes when you're pouring containers. Even if you don't see any sink holes, there can be some air pockets in the candle, usually around the wick underneath the surface that you cannot see. You usually discover them when you've been burning your candle for a little while...then suddenly your wick starts drowning and you've got a tunnel going down around your wick. That's why the relief holes are so important. Keep the holes open until the candle is almost completely cool...then hit the top with your heat gun to close everything up. Also, it helps to reduce the possibility of air pockets if you pour cool...around 150-160 degrees. By the way, you can easily fix that candle without having to dump it out and start over again. Widen the hole and then take your heat gun and go over the top in a slight sweeping motion until the melted wax fills it all in...it will look good as new.

[topofmurrayhill]

That's nonsense. I've worked with all the Ecosoya container blends and generally the information on their site is good advice that reflects what most people do. Including this:

EcoSoya™ Container waxes are all one-pour soywaxes requiring no additives that result in a smooth surface.

If you run into some kind of problem that requires a special technique or additive, you can deal with that later. For now just study all the tips from the manufacturer and keep it simple. So far the only problem you've had is that you hardened up the wax too much with unnecessary stearic and Vybar.

All the Ecosoya waxes have been discussed in our vegetable wax forum, so at some point you'll want to use the search feature to locate those threads and read up more on people's experiences with the products.

[Gdawg]

I use ecosoya and have never had to pour a second pour or add additives. Never had to poke relief holes either...knock on wood now lol

[AkainePSP]

Thanks for the link I will definately follow the instructions and go from there. Will keep you all posted!

Thank you!

[Lantern Light Mama]

Hope you found a solution...my guess would have been that you poured too hot. I work with C3, a soy wax. These occur most prominently the hotter you pour. The reason being that as your wax contracts around the cold glass, it's still hotter in the center. The center cools last, but by then, all the wax has cooled and pulled away from the center, leaving a hole. If you temper the wax, much like cooling hot chocolate when you make fudge, you will have a much better result.

[NattyCat]

I have been using ecosoya cb135 for more than 2 years now, and it DOES form air pockets. It is not one-pour. Even if the top sets up beautifully and it looks perfect - on the first burn it hits the pocket, the wax falls into the hole and the wick gets destroyed because it burns too far down where it is exposed.

You do need to poke relief holes with this particular wax. I have found that pouring cool or hot makes no difference really.

[topofmurrayhill]

I have been using ecosoya cb135 for more than 2 years now, and it DOES form air pockets. It is not one-pour...You do need to poke relief holes with this particular wax. I have found that pouring cool or hot makes no difference really.

The manufacturer's claims and instructions aren't bogus. CB-135 is definitely a one-pour wax and saying you need to poke holes isn't correct. I've never gotten an air pocket with this wax and countless others don't get them either.

However, any one-pour wax can misbehave under some circumstances. Your technique is one valid way to deal with the air pockets if you get them. I'm certain adjusting the pouring technique could eliminate them as well, with just a single pour.

If you're teaching a beginner I think you teach them the way people normally do it. Probably it will work. We can deal with problems when and if they arise.

[Henryk]

I agree that hardening the wax too much can do that - BW, or stearic in my case - use them sparingly if needed.

The other times I have seen this is in the case of large tall jars - the top cools too fast while the inside stays warm and top colapses like that. To be honest, the way I solved that is --- I stopped using that type of jar!

KY waxes in 8-12oz jars never had that issue unless too much BW. Eco Advanced didn't have it unless too much stearic.

[NattyCat]

The manufacturer's claims and instructions aren't bogus. CB-135 is definitely a one-pour wax and saying you need to poke holes isn't correct. I've never gotten an air pocket with this wax and countless others don't get them either.

However, any one-pour wax can misbehave under some circumstances. Your technique is one valid way to deal with the air pockets if you get them. I'm certain adjusting the pouring technique could eliminate them as well, with just a single pour.

If you're teaching a beginner I think you teach them the way people normally do it. Probably it will work. We can deal with problems when and if they arise.

how exactly can our techniques be so different? we melt the wax, don't put any additives in it, add scent and wait for it to cool down before we pour. Whilst there are technically several things that contribute towards what is classed as a good candle - it tends to be the quality of the fragrance and the selection of wick that are the most important.

There is nothing complicated about the actual act of melting and pouring the wax - it's the same the world over and there are no secrets. I am not new to candle making and have poured this wax under every variable I can think of regarding temperature, cooling, glass temperature - even down to the temperature of the room I'm pouring in. I don't get pockets on EVERY candle, but I do get enough pockets to ensure I make a relief hole in every candle to be on the safe side.

if you've never poked a relief hole with this wax, or have poked a few times and found that you don't have air pockets - what makes you think you never get air pockets? I've had some candles that don't have air pockets but a majority of them do - you can't possibly know if you have one unless you poke a hole and find out - just saying "i don't get air pockets" because you've never actually burnt a candle that had one isn't, in my opinion, the best practice.

You could have 20 candles with no air pockets, but sell the 21st one that does have one - isn't it always better to check for an air pocket rather than "hope" you don't have one or "assume" you don't have one because you've been lucky enough to have not discovered one so far?

Each to their own I guess, I just like to be conscientious and err on the side of caution myself.

[topofmurrayhill]

I stand by my posts 110%. Offhand I don't know why you get air pockets, but the vast majority of people do a single pour of soy without seeing that problem. CB-135 is much like any other product in that respect.

What you're saying is that the pouring variables for soy are exactly the same as paraffin and that there aren't any secrets to it. The real secret is that this isn't true. Soy and paraffin are very different that way. You're working with a fat and people who specialize in that for making certain foods can confirm there are subtleties to the way you treat the material that make a huge difference in the results. You've omitted some important variables from your description of pouring soy.

If any of the Ecosoyas have more of a tendency to make pits and pockets, it's actually CB-Advanced. It does it for much the same reason the questioner's candle went awry. It's a pretty soft wax that's hardened with additives to make it frost resistant. The photo we see here shows a more extreme example of that from the added stearic and Vybar.

[NattyCat]

sorry - I was referring to soy, not paraffin and any experience I was or may be referring to is based upon my experience with soy. I don't use paraffin and have probably only poured possibly 5 candles in total in pure container blend paraffin.

I'm sure you don't want a detailed description of exactly how I pour candles. The point I am making is that I find ecoysoya cb-135 to be inconsistent and that on occasion it has produced air pockets. BECAUSE it has produced air pockets, even if it had done so only one time - I will ensure that I check for them EVERY time "just in case" another turns up.

Even you can't deny that soy is inconsistent - in fact you said as much in another post, and also said you don't like to use it as it is unstable. It just so happens to be unstable for ME in the form of air pockets.

[topofmurrayhill]

Let me just boil it down here.

Everyone has their own experience, but yours isn't a sufficient basis for teaching a newbie how to pour CB-135 or soy in general. He/she might get the idea that popping holes in it as it cools is advisable and is the way to start off doing it. That's isn't true. There are certainly different ways to skin a cat, but not many people do that. The best way to start off is like the manufacturer describes and the way most people do it.

You've said that CB-135 isn't a one pour wax and requires relief holes to avoid problems. That isn't true either. No wax is a one pour under all possible cirsumstances, but CB-135 is a good performer compared to one pour waxes in general. The best result you can get with this wax will usually involve a single pour.

Finally, you've said that you've considered and tested all possible variables and that your frequent air pockets are the nature of the wax and couldn't have anything to do with your pouring procedures. That's a rash assertion. I don't know why you're having that particular problem, but you haven't described all the variables. It might very well be fixed by pouring a different way.

We all know soy is tricky. There are breakthrough things you can learn years after you start working with the stuff. You can't ever stop looking for clues and trying things, forever and always.

That's all I have to say about it.

[CountryCreekCandles]

I was having that exact same problem until I read someone's suggestion to preheat my oven to around 200 F, turn off, place my candles in just after i've poured them and shut the oven door. I left them in there overnight and to my delight-no holes, no cracks !!!! I'm using EcoSoya Advanced too.....apparently I was cooling them too quickly even by just leaving them on the counter.....

[Gdawg]

with the ecosoya advance I was having issues with sink holes and tops pulling from the wicks. CB-135 though I have yet to have a problem with and have been using it about a year and half. When I poured both advanced and cb-135 next to each other for a jar comparison hands down I could tell which was which after it had cooled

[kandlekrazy]

I don't know about the different waxes doing or not doing that, but I can tell you in the past two weeks since I went back to heating my jars in the oven...I've gotten lots of sink holes. My last batch, I ditched the oven and just used my heat gun and didn't get any sink holes. I'd say my jars were too hot, but I was careful to pull out my notes from last winter and follow them carefully. I can't explain it...this didn't happen last year...I'm using the same wax. I don't know if you heated or not, but heating the jars too much apparently can be the problem.

[jakalex]

I have been using CB135 for 1 1/2 years and rarely have sink hole problems.

My last case of CB135 has given me more problems than in the past. Not sure why but I have had more sink holes and air bubbles. I just heat gun the tops and that fixes the problem. No problems with the burn.

I have never done re-pours with the wax. I have also never felt the need to heat my containers. I do get wet spots with this wax but have learned to live with that since I get an excellent scent throw and smooth tops.

I do not check my pour temp anymore. When the wax starts getting cloudy and is starting to thicken I pour.

Hope this helps!

[SliverOfWax]

but the vast majority of people do a single pour of soy without seeing that problem.

Wow, that's quite a statement. I would be interested in how you did your research.

I've used various kinds of soy in my time and would sometimes get holes as shown in the photo. It didn't seem to matter which soy I used or how I poured. Those holes could pop up in a few days or a few weeks. The lack of predictability with soy is one reason I no longer pour soy.

I have no problem with poking holes and doing repours. I have a bigger problem with not knowing what's lurking beneath the top.

So I guess you can put me down as being in the minority.

:rolleyes2

www.StuffSunshineLikes.com

[Sharon in KY]

I have no problem with poking holes and doing repours. I have a bigger problem with not knowing what's lurking beneath the top.

So I guess you can put me down as being in the minority.

Ditto.....

I do a topping off/repour with every candle I make. I pour cool but the temp varies from pot to pot. Been working with soy for over 7 years and your right you never know what your going to get with soy.

[Stella1952]

I don't see the kind of problem in the photo when I pour votives. I don't use the same wax and I use different techniques for reducing the possibility of air trapping. I don't want a single pour wax that I have to repour. Votives are small, but labor intensive, so the tops have to come out well on the first pour or I'm losing money on 'em.