What's up with C&S AND SHIPPING?

[barncat]

A Ltitle pissed when I went to the website to order wicks. $10 min shipping charge?? WTH? So it costs me $10 to ship a 1 lb box 200 miles? I think not. I called and complained and said my shipping has alwyas been $5-6, they said sorry that is there new policy. Well, the just lost me as a customer and I ordered thousands of $ off them last year. I very unsavy business move!

[mystical_angel1219]

I am so disguisted with C&S these days it isn't even funny.

I seriously think they have lost their minds- or what little they had left.

[hewells]

I don't order from them either anymore I can't afford their shipping.

[AngelaVA]

I have the same feeling about them. I won't order and pay a minimum shipping price. I also don't like that they can't be bothered to let you know when something is backordered. They just cancel it from your order.

[iloga]

Last weekend C&S offered free shipping on internet orders of $500. I ordered Friday night, and UPS just delivered 20 boxes...FREE!

[islandgirl]

A Ltitle pissed when I went to the website to order wicks. $10 min shipping charge?? WTH? So it costs me $10 to ship a 1 lb box 200 miles? I think not. I called and complained and said my shipping has alwyas been $5-6, they said sorry that is there new policy. Well, the just lost me as a customer and I ordered thousands of $ off them last year. I very unsavy business move!

I agree.

I ordered thousands from them also last year... But not this year..

They were my big wick supplier... Now I have switched to candlwic!!

(Their competition... Much more accommodating with shipping costs...)

Ultimately, all us small guys will add up to a BIG loss of revenue for them!!

[topofmurrayhill]

I dread dealing with them. The latest hassle is 2 melters I ordered at almost $300 each. First they inform me the ones I ordered aren't in stock so I had to settle for smaller ones that are less economical. Then they shipped me 2 different melters instead of 2 of the same. How hard it is to get an order for 2 identical wax melters right? I don't even know which ones I got exactly because they don't have model numbers on them and didn't come with anything. On top of it these Wenesco melters look like something salvaged from a junkyard. I just want to return them both and get this fiasco out of my life. For that they want me to eat all the shipping.

[MasterBaker2]

I dread dealing with them. The latest hassle is 2 melters I ordered at almost $300 each. First they inform me the ones I ordered aren't in stock so I had to settle for smaller ones that are less economical. Then they shipped me 2 different melters instead of 2 of the same. How hard it is to get an order for 2 identical wax melters right? I don't even know which ones I got exactly because they don't have model numbers on them and didn't come with anything. On top of it these Wenesco melters look like something salvaged from a junkyard. I just want to return them both and get this fiasco out of my life. For that they want me to eat all the shipping.

If they just substituted other products I wouldn't put up with that. There are ways to make them eat that. Ask me how I know........

[Jane42]

They are one of the closest places to me, but not so close I can drive there, so I am VERY disappointed with their new shipping policies! That is just ridiculous!!

[Guest EMercier]

I didn't know they had a new shipping policy. Thankfully for me it's about 30-40 minu drive for me. I started to have them ship because I was tired of driving there, but I will take 1/2 a day to drive there if I need anything. I've had a few problems with them and they aren't the cheapest on some things I use, so I go with other suppliers.

[islandgirl]

From C&S..

They have over $10,000.00 invested in a UPS internet shipping calculator that does not work the way we need it to calculate shipping on their orders. Their average order is $159.00 and the calculator works very well for that size order but not for small orders like yours or large truckload orders.

You think that if they are aware of this problem, they would hand enter any small orders..

So with this $10,000.00 caculator, they can only do medium size orders??

Top.... If they made the error on your melters, THEY should pay for the shipping to fix the problem!!! That is not right!!

[celicagtca]

I received an order from them last year and they invoiced me $56 US shipping for my $45 US order, but the postal stamp on the box showed $11.00 US. I called, enquired about the inconsistancy in the shipping charge and they stated that their calculator wasn't working properly and that they would give me a "Credit" to my account. So they were basically forcing me to re-order from them instead of crediting my visa. I also ordered a bunch of 4"x6" seamless molds, when they arrived, they had put 3" molds inside of the 4" molds which scratched and gouged all the 4" molds. I called again on this issue and they stated that I would have to return them, pay the shipping and they would rectify the situation. The best one is when they stated on their website, if you buy 8 molds, you get the aluminum mold tray for "FREE", Not So...the price of the mold tray showed up on the invoice also. I've only ordered from them 3 times and "3 STRIKES" their OUT!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Do we really need to hear about their wonky shipping calculator? Not our problem. Our problem is that they're either not managed well enough to provide a good customer experience or it's not a priority for them. An East Coast friend of mine hates dealing with them too.

They just don't seem to be on the ball even if you're communicating with a human. They were once waiting on a shipment of material I urgently needed. I told them the situation and was pleasantly surprised when I got an e-mail one Wednesday saying it had arrived and did I want to use my usual credit card. So I placed the order and jokingly inquired if "ballistic missile" was an available shipping option. They said the rockets were ready to go. Then they didn't ship the stuff until the following Tuesday.

I'm in a pickle with the melters because the reason I'm returning them isn't cut and dried in my favor. First I couldn't get the ones I ordered. I did agree on alternatives, but they weren't as good a value and that was strike one. Then one of the melters they sent was the wrong model and that was strike two. I could have exchanged it but the product seemed kinda crappy, which was strike three. I just wasn't feeling good about the whole thing by then and wanted to bail.

From their point of view I'm returning the melters because I don't like them and that means I eat the shipping. I don't feel totally responsible because I got poor service plus how was I to know they're carrying a mediocre product.

My best hope now is only having to eat the shipping for one of the melters and hopefully not have it become an endless hassle to sort everything out.

[hewells]

Do we really need to hear about their wonky shipping calculator? Not our problem. Our problem is that they're either not managed well enough to provide a good customer experience or it's not a priority for them. An East Coast friend of mine hates dealing with them too.

They just don't seem to be on the ball even if you're communicating with a human. They were once waiting on a shipment of material I urgently needed. I told them the situation and was pleasantly surprised when I got an e-mail one Wednesday saying it had arrived and did I want to use my usual credit card. So I placed the order and jokingly inquired if "ballistic missile" was an available shipping option. They said the rockets were ready to go. Then they didn't ship the stuff until the following Tuesday.

I'm in a pickle with the melters because the reason I'm returning them isn't cut and dried in my favor. First I couldn't get the ones I ordered. I did agree on alternatives, but they weren't as good a value and that was strike one. Then one of the melters they sent was the wrong model and that was strike two. I could have exchanged it but the product seemed kinda crappy, which was strike three. I just wasn't feeling good about the whole thing by then and wanted to bail.

From their point of view I'm returning the melters because I don't like them and that means I eat the shipping. I don't feel totally responsible because I got poor service plus how was I to know they're carrying a mediocre product.

My best hope now is only having to eat the shipping for one of the melters and hopefully not have it become an endless hassle to sort everything out.

IMO that is ridiculous, first not having what you wanted, then offering you an inferior alternative. They should certainly be issuing you a call tag for whomever delivered it to return and pick it up. To me that is just poor customer service, since this is not what you had originally requested.

[lauren8479]

Well the joke's on them because they will eventually go out of business. There are a lot of people reading this right now that are now scared to order from them, I am one of them! It makes me so mad that that happened to y'all b/c the way I see it, candle making is not cheap and to totally gaulge (sp?) the customers is definately not the way to run a business. I'm sorry that has happened to y'all, but thanks for the warning.

[Hope]

Till they change their evil ways.... one of these days...

they're on my supplier 'caution' list.

[laura9259]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I RECEIVED WHEN I ASKED ABOUT THE SHIPPING CHARGES

Hi Laura,

Thanks for your email and I agree it seems insane at first too. With the new post office regulations that restrict any liquids through the mail, our smaller fragrance orders have to be shipped by UPS ground and after residential fees, fuel surcharges etc. there really are not a lot of orders where the postage is less than $10.00. If the shipping actually falls below $10.00, then we would override and charge the correct amount and at that point the customer will be pleasantly surprised. We were getting numerous phone calls per day from customers that were very unhappy that their postage was $5.00 on their $2.00 order so really what this statement has done is encourage people to place larger orders to save on postage without having to enforce a minimum order.

It really makes more business sense for candle makers to place larger orders at a time and save on shipping costs. We used to get numerous phone calls per day from customers that place a few very small orders each week and were unhappy that they had to pay $6-$7 in shipping 3 times a week when really if they combined all of their orders for a week they probably would have only had to pay about $10.00 total instead of $20. This statement on the website seems insane, but it is actually a good way for candle makers to get organized and make more money instead of making the UPS guys rich.

Postage paid on supplies directly affects the bottom line and no matter the size of your business, it's always best to order more at a time and combine shipping. When I do my ordering I try to combine as much product as possible so I can get the best postage rates possible. If I ordered waxes by pallets instead of truckloads, I'd probably be paying 20-25% shipping vs. 8-12%.

The $10.00 minimum on the website was not intended to make people mad, it was intended to make them realize that shipping may be much more than they expected on small orders. I hope this explains the situation better and makes sense.

Have a great day!

Cindy

Candles and Supplies.com, Inc.

500 Commerce Dr.

Quakertown, PA 18951

Phone: 215-538-8552 x201

FAX: 215-538-8175

http://www.candlesandsupplies.com

[mystical_angel1219]

I can understand where Cindy is coming from to a point. She is a long time chandler and business owner. It does make sense to maximize your shipping dollar. This is something one must take into consideration when looking at candlemaking as a business vs. a hobby. Shipping can seriously make or break your bottom line at the end of the year.

What I am not really getting here is that as a business, you would think that the hobbyist would be kept in mind as well. Many people start making candles as a hobby- and grow into a business. So generally what I am saying here is that a good sized portion of their business is not being considered. Not many people place 5K and up orders everyday. But the smaller orders do matter. One would think from a business standpoint that this really needs to be looked into further.

Cindy (the owner) has alway been fair and very customer oriented. But at this time, I do not feel many of her long time customers are getting the same service from her company as she would give. Or any customer for that matter. Perhaps it's time to look at things thru the BIG scope. Identify the issues and solve them. It would be hard to get new business and maintain relationships with her base clientele when there are so many issues going on with orders lately.

I do not want to get into detail from my personal experience, as I feel it compromises my level of professionalism. But I am seriously thinking of calling her this week and having a long chat about the past two orders and all the issues I am reading here on this board. There has to be a better way.

[Sab]

I ordered by phone because they're shopping cart online wasn't working. I ordered a 12 piece case of 9 oz bail wire jars (to test). The shipping was 18.00! They refused to quote me a shipping price over the phone. I asked the girl to please email me before they were shipped with the final quote. They never did and just shipped them.

I really like the jars but I don't want to order from them again. Any ideas on where I can get these jars?

[barncat]

Well when you get a big order for a certain scnet or just happened to run out of a certain scent and you need just 1lb, that kind of sucks. I've ordered twice a week several times, I didn't care abou tht eshipping(as long as its a fair price) but, to change something like that hurts. I have a commercail location, so I don't get the res surcharges, which are high. If they want everyone to buy $150 off them everytime, then they need to set their minimum at that.

[Scented]

I also don't like that they can't be bothered to let you know when something is backordered. They just cancel it from your order.

I hear ya. And I also don't like that packaging invoice doesn't come either. I guess we get spoiled by companies that do the extra something to keep you happy. I pretty much crossed these people off my list after they told me they'd get an invoice to sent to. It's almost a year later and no invoice yet.

As for the rest of you with far bigger complaints than I've had, who the hell ships molds inside of other molds? That's ridiculous! And as for that melter issue, I don't know that I'd accept much fault. I'd probably dispute the whole thing instead, especially since they sent medicore product.

[jecwittm]

Yes, I know I’m a newbie here, but I just had to get my 2 cents worth in. I think it also helps to present another point of view—that of someone just starting out and wanting to test different supplier’s products, CS, etc. before making a big $ investment. I have never ordered from C&S and, now, seriously doubt I ever will. Getting started on a very short shoe string is difficult. I do not need to pay high shipping charges for a “test” order NOR do I want to buy huge amounts of product yet. So, the way I look at it, they have lost a potential new customer. There’s a lot of us out there just getting started that may someday be able to grow into big clients. I may not have a business degree, but I have at least a tiny little bit of business sense to realize that the way to “grow” a business and keep it going is by a steady influx of new customers.

I went to their web site to see what all this uproar was about and to make sure I fully understood the situation before posting. I try to be very careful and read the “fine print” before ordering from a new company. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but no where on their site did I see any mention of their new shipping minimum. I thought maybe I had the wrong site, so I went ahead and tried placing a small “test” order to see what happened at their checkout. Lo and behold, only AFTER I’d gone through the whole process did the shipping info come up. Personally, I think that’s rather cr@ppy. As a newbie, I agonize over what FOs to sample and put a lot of time into making desicions (just sorta anal retentive that way—not good at making snap decisions!). Can’t help but wonder if that setup isn’t done “accidentally on purpose”. I mean, at that point, I might be inclined to say “Oh, what the he!!” and just submit my order since I had already put my time and effort into in. BTW, I also didn’t like the fine print saying: “In-store credit will be issued (not cash or credit card refunds) for all returns unless you were shipped something in our error.” Maybe this is common practice, I don’t know. But, regardless, I don’t like being coerced into shopping somewhere that I may not be happy with at that point. So, thank you all for the head’s up!

One last point regarding the email that Laura received from them (“…It really makes more business sense for candle makers to place larger orders at a time and save on shipping costs. … it is actually a good way for candle makers to get organized and make more money instead of making the UPS guys rich. … Postage paid on supplies directly affects the bottom line and no matter the size of your business, it's always best to order more at a time and combine shipping. …”)—true, but why do they think its THEIR business to decide for me how I should run MY business?

Oh, and BTW, hello all. :wave: I’m really glad I discovered this board!

Sorry about being so garrulous. I’ll shut up now…

[MommaD]

true, but why do they think its THEIR business to decide for me how I should run MY business?

That is EXACTLY it, right there. That statement says it all regarding their email.

I stopped shopping with them LONG ago due to their screwing me over on shipping, time and time again. That, along with things not being shipped, and never telling me that something was out, until the package arrived, and it wasn't in there. If I need something NOW, I can't wait to see when it gets here if you actually had it or not. And I don't always have time to go through the hassle of calling, either, when I am working, and caring for children.

C and S has NO right to tell a candle maker what they should be doing, or how they should be doing it. That infuriates me to no end. Maybe ALL I can afford is that bottle of one pound of fragrance oil, or 8 ounces, or whatever. Your idea of how a business should be run is NOT yours to push on me.

Grrr.

[Jane42]

I find it a bit "presumptuous" for them to try to "organize" me and help me save money.

I send packages through UPS every day through the college I work for, and rarely am charged over $10.00 per package! Most packages, ranging from large padded envelopes with books in them, to small and medium boxes, usually cost between $5.00-$6.00.

Am I understanding correctly that if the charge IS under $10.00, you will only be charged the lower fee?

[candlebean]

This is the first time I haven't gotten an invoice from them with my order...sheesh, if they're not going to tell you your FINAL total up front, it's the least they can do. I've ordered from them many times without a problem - the shipping always made me sick, but I chalked it up to ordering tons of cases of heavy jars...hopefully I will hear back from them soon...