Am I being a perfectionist? (when is good enough, good enough?)

[Ashes Foxes]

Hi! New active user here but I've been using the site for some time now trying to gather information, and it's been such a huge help I figured I'd go ahead. 

 

Long story short, I've been trying for a while now to make candles that I can give away to friends and family (ultimately, I'd like to make a business but, that will take a while and require a lot more confidence than I currently have.) but I keep running into what I consider failures in my candles. 

 

I started out, I think like most people, using 464 soy. I was unhappy however with the cure time requirement, the pastel color, the surface finish (especially after a burn) and the frosting. As such, I switched to IGI 6006 and haven't really looked back. The color and finish are great and, well it HAS been great, but there's a new issue and I'm frustrated. 

 

So, I'm wondering if I'm being a perfectionist here. I'm using candle supplies 10oz tumbler jars, Norden wick tools (I highly recommend these!) and mostly aztec and candlescience oils. 

 

I've been sticking with a 6% mix, mixing at 185F and pouring 180-170F, depending on how much it cools after stirring about 2 minutes. I let the candle cure in a dark pantry with a metal press on lid for 4 days and then do a coldthrow test (I stick my nose in it, heh.) 

 

I've been wick testing FOREVER and I've been trying just about everything aside from bits of string I find laying around on the floor. I've settled between an HTP 105 and an HTP 126. I am TRYING to get a melt pool that covers wall to wall, but not with a flame so hot that it burns my oil away. With 105s I get about 1/4 to 1/8" tunneling (but only on one side) with a 126 I get 1/8 to 1/16th tunneling on one side that may go away. I have only recently started with 126s because I got tired of what I considered failure with 105s. 

 

I use the "spectrum" dyes from nature's garden and I love them. 

 

So things were going pretty good for a time, some of my more challenging scents like moonflower nectar were actually producing a good throw (I love that scent but its proved challenging)  and my wax melts were filling a 14x12 room wonderfully. The candles however.. would only cover a few feet around the candle itself with a 105. So, I thought, ok maybe the melt pool is too small because of the tunneling. It's the exact same pour as the wax melt, so it's not a difference there. 

 

So I've messed around, poured a lot more candles, let them cure... I have to almost touch my nose to the wax to smell it suddenly. Same scents, same type of wax, same dyes, same jars same cure times.. no CT, and almost no HT in candles with 105 or 126. 

 

I've also found that I'm unhappy with flame size. They start about 1/4-1/2" but by about 10 minutes they're looking 1-1.25" tall. They flicker and move, and the closer it gets to the 3 hour initial burn its flaming up with a tiny strand of light 3" or so. This feels unacceptable to me but the HTPs have been the most stable wick I've found (that isn't zinc or wood I have not tested zinc yet.)

 

I guess.. am I being picky here? Or am I still having trouble? I cannot even give these away until I would want one as a gift. Stable burning, even melting, properly colored, properly scented (cold and hot.) Otherwise.. it's just not good enough. 

 

I bought a candle from black tie barn and the thing knocks me over just by taking the lid off, yet I have to bury my nose into my own candles to smell them at all when cold!? I mean that can't just be being picky or dealing with weak oils could it?? Something must be wrong.. or am I just trying too hard?

 

I've tried 8-10% FO mixes as well trying to boost the cold/hot throw but all this seems to do is excite the flame more and waste oil. 6% seems to be the best "al around" mix, but it's just not strong enough to me. 

 

Thank you for reading my diatribe!

[Milk Machine]

Have you tried Premier 700 series wicks? I know Black Tie Barn uses them and sells them. I'm pretty sure he has used them in the same wax you use. I use it in a coco wax aandi like them. I also think in a recent video from Wade he was testing candle science FOs at 9%. I guess my recommendation would be to try 9% FO and Premier wwicks.  Black Tie Barn has a great price on the wicks and he ships really quickly!   Good Luck! 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ashes Foxes]

I have played with the premier wicks. They work, but they mushroom real bad at every size I've tried. The HTP wicks seem relatively self trimming and I've had minimal mushrooming in comparison. I've basically went to every site I've found and ordered 1 pack of everything. The jars have been consistent, as has the wax and the oil. I can't imagine a jar like this needs a dual wick but I cannot avoid tunneling on these things. Nor can I get my cold throw to throw. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I expect that if I put a jar candle in my half bath and don't light it.. I should have a strong scent of said candle every time I enter that bathroom. If I light it, you should be able to smell it wafting out of the bathroom, and be nearly overwhelmed inside the bathroom. That's pretty much my goal. (The half bath I've experimented with is probably 4'x4'? I'm not sure.)

[bfroberts]

I think you are way over wicked which can inhibit HT. In my experience with 6006, you’ll need to wick small enough NOT to get a full melt pool until about halfway down the container. A FMP early on is way to hot as the candle burns down, especially in a tumbler. The wicks you are using will work fine in 6006, but you should go several sizes smaller. 
 

With the larger % of paraffin in 6006, you often won’t get the super strong CT you were getting with 464. Of course results will vary depending on the FO, but across the board soy waxes do often give a stronger CT. 

[Ashes Foxes]

I've burned several full candles in these jars with 105s and they've left a huge chunk of wax on one wall of the tumbler, my melt pool even halfway down never reaches more than 3/4 of the jar. if I go down several sizes I'll have a melt pool the size of a half dollar. 

 

These do taper a little bit, but I worry that trying to give a friend or a family member a candle that acts like this is just not going to be ok. I went to the 105 up from smaller wicks because it was never burning through. 

 

The only way I was able to get a "complete burn" candle in the last few months with a 105 was to scoop soft wax off the sidewall with a plastic spoon. Otherwise I get this glob that just stays there. 

 

Honestly if I have to go through the wicking nightmare again and start from scratch.. I'm just gonna give up. I've been at this for so long trying to get just ONE single candle to burn to my liking and I just cannot make it happen. 

 

I'm confused as to what Wade might be using for a wax because it doesn't feel like a soy to me. Though to be fair, I've only used 464 and it seems to be very soft. His colors are rich and the wax is firm like 6006. The cold throw is knock-you-over strong and I feel like these things I'm making are worthless unless they can meet all these "requirements." 

 

I've played with 464, 6006, and 4627. I've considered 4625 which iirc is mostly for pillars and melts, but.. I mean.. I don't know anymore. Nothing I'm doing is good enough. 

[BenderSF]

Sorry I don't have much direct advice to give, but a couple things I'll just throw in here:

 

Don't rule out a bad (or just challenging) batch of wax.  I've read some posts in craftserver in the last 6 months or so saying that 6006 has not been very good lately.  I have VERY limited experience with 6006, but I'm surprised you describe it as "firm".  The one batch I bought (in 2018) is definitely one of the softer waxes I've used, and cold throw is very strong with almost any fragrance.

 

About the wick size (and again, I don't know 6006 well and I've never touched an HTP), sometimes candles can be counter-intuitive.  Sometimes it seems like a candle is UNDERwicked when actually it's OVERwicked.  Might be worth a test.

 

Hope you don't give up.  It can be frustrating for sure, but it can be very rewarding when things start falling into place.  

 

(edit: oh, and to answer the question in your post's title: no, you're not being a perfectionist.   )

Edited February 24, 2023 by BenderSF
added PS

[kandlekrazy]

HTP wicks will sometimes benefit by twisting them.  I do it before I set the wick and then again, if needed,  before I pour.  I tend to agree about wick size, you can start with 105 but if it burns too hot at the 1/2 way point you should wick down 1-2 sizes.  This will vary with fo used.

[Ashes Foxes]

I tried twisting the wick recently on my last 2 candles, it made a difference on one but the other one still tends to only burn in one direction. I'm not sure what happens with that. 

 

I guess. I don't mind testing, ya know? That's part of this hobby, but that's ALL I've done in like a year. Testing testing testing and nothing at all to show for it. I can't enjoy what I'm doing, it feels more like working in a factory than a labor of love. I want to be able to share this, but it has to be good enough TO share, and it's just not. So its more pouring, testing, and if it obviously looks off (most of them I will try to burn all the way through, but not all.) I'll use a wax melter to core it, pour the wax in a used salsa jar and toss it out. Wasting lots of wax, lots of oil, lots of time. When's the fun start? heh. 

 

I'm thinking I'll go back to soy. 6006 seems to have benefits but obviously I'm struggling with it and getting nowhere. 30 pounds of 6006 and nothing to show. I had a lot more progress with only 10 pounds of 464 earlier on. 

 

Suppose I'm just frustrated. None of this is good enough. My family keeps asking me for a candle and I keep telling them no, it's not ready. It feels like it'll never be ready. 

[Laura C]

Hi @Ashes Foxes, I would say at some point we were all in your shoes, I know I was. For me, eventually you come to a point, with enough experience under your belt and way too many test products on your shelf, that you decide what's good enough is good enough. If you don't then you will never get out of the testing phase. Selecting your best doesn't have to mean that it's Perfect. 🕯️ And certainly make sure that it is a safe product.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Laura C

[Milk Machine]

Did the mushrooming with the premier wicks continue past the 2nd or 3rd burn? Mushrooming can be common in the first couple of burns because being at the top of the candle and experiencing more drafts. I ignore Mushrooming that happens in burn 1 or 2, trim the wick and keep going. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

22 hours ago, Ashes Foxes said:

I tried twisting the wick recently on my last 2 candles, it made a difference on one but the other one still tends to only burn in one direction. I'm not sure what happens with that. 

 

I guess. I don't mind testing, ya know? That's part of this hobby, but that's ALL I've done in like a year. Testing testing testing and nothing at all to show for it. I can't enjoy what I'm doing, it feels more like working in a factory than a labor of love. I want to be able to share this, but it has to be good enough TO share, and it's just not. So its more pouring, testing, and if it obviously looks off (most of them I will try to burn all the way through, but not all.) I'll use a wax melter to core it, pour the wax in a used salsa jar and toss it out. Wasting lots of wax, lots of oil, lots of time. When's the fun start? heh. 

 

I'm thinking I'll go back to soy. 6006 seems to have benefits but obviously I'm struggling with it and getting nowhere. 30 pounds of 6006 and nothing to show. I had a lot more progress with only 10 pounds of 464 earlier on. 

 

Suppose I'm just frustrated. None of this is good enough. My family keeps asking me for a candle and I keep telling them no, it's not ready. It feels like it'll never be ready. 

Testing is the investment in your chandler education. Many people skip the testing and face consequences they could have easily prevented. 
 

your first mission as a maker of candles is to make a safe product. If you’ve not yet heard of ASTM, familiarize yourself with the candle safety tests to ensure you don’t get yourself into a pickle.  There are several threads about ASTM and candle safety on this forum. 
 

if your flame sputters and grows during a burn as described a few posts above in this thread, you will quickly learn that your choice of wick is not optimal.  Flaring during a short burn like that means it will most certainly fail during a later burn in the candle’s life, along with hotter/higher flares during a power burn. 
 

take measurements of the container temp as you test. An IR thermometer will become your best friend.  If the glass heats beyond acceptable temps at any point it’s back to the drawing board to choose another wick. 
 

many people speak of “tunneling”, but our definition differs.  Look at the shape of the melt pool.  It wasn’t that long ago when full melt pools (especially early in a candle’s life)  were something to be prevented.  Many waxes make a wide “U” shaped melt pool where the candle wax melts down the sides of the “U” to provide fresh scented wax so the candle burns 1) safely and 2) as fresh as day 1 through the entire candle’s life, if you look at wick charts, many melt pool measurements are small, like 1-2”. They were made intentionally to make these “U” shaped narrow, not-full melt pools. 
 

to me, a “tunnel” has straight sides that never catch up. If you burn the candle from start to finish, a tunnel will bore a hole directly down the center of the candle leaving even wax from the top to the bottom when the candle self extinguishes. These melt pools (obviously) have steep sides, not a wide  “U” shape that gradually catches up by the mid point of the candle.

 

the off center melt pools can sometimes be remedied by: twisting of the wick as you tried, offsetting the wick slightly to take advantage of the directional curl, or switching wick series.  Many coreless wick series (CD,CDN, HTP, Ply) curl intentionally to attempt to prevent carbon heading.  The curl makes an off center melt pool by design right in the wick manufacturer’s literature. 
 

if I were you, I would try different series, like Premier 700 series, rigid curl or even ultra core.  Your wax will need to be wicked down to achieve the best, safest performance. 
 

hot throw issues may be due to: wick selection (series/too big/too small), “bad” wax batch, incompatible fragrance, too much/too little fragrance.  Every fragrance is made of different aromachemicals and diluents which may require different wicking. I’m very picky about my fragrance sources after so many “failures”. I can’t count the $ burned on testing, but am thankful for every single lesson as it made me a much better chandler in the long run. 

[NightLight]

Sounds like overwicking. I have been using premiers in a parasoy wax blend similar. They won’t mushroom if you have the right wick.

I would go to smaller size. From your description it sounds like overwicking. Also make sure you don test burns for 2.5 -3 hours. That will tell you a lot. If the meltpool at top is very deep, by middle it could be super deep. You can always add some soy to 6006.

[Ashes Foxes]

I've actually started playing with an 80/20 464/4627 bend. I dont mind soy and its easier to work with than paraffin. (Plus I have a lot of both waxes) I'm side by side burning a pure 464 and a 464/4627 right now and they can burn well past the 3 hour mark without the slighest hint of a flame problem. HOWEVER. Neither are scented. And I  know your oil changes this A lot. The pure 464 has an HTP 126 and the mix has a 105. the 105 is tunneling slightly, I'm thinking with oil it may be enough or even too much of a wick. The 126 gets a very small wall to wall pool which is pleasing visually. I have not checked temp tho. At this point with these 2 I'm kinda just enjoying watching them burn. 

 

4627 is a high scent wax as I understand, and adding tht 20% smoothed out the rough sandpapery texture that 464 has when new or when freshly burned. Not being 6006 means no risk of tunneling (4627 is like vaseline its.. SUPER goopy..) 

 

Poured a scented and dyed sample saturday, will test it in 2 weeks. It's already frosting, so.. might have to go dyeless on candles. (Which I'm ok with to a degree. Would just need to "Rebrand" a bit so to speak..) 

 

Will keep you in the loop!

 

I also basically went to flaming candle and got 1 of everything wick wise. So.. guess there's more testing.. god I hate testing. 

[Noob82]

On 2/27/2023 at 10:33 PM, Ashes Foxes said:

I've actually started playing with an 80/20 464/4627 bend. I dont mind soy and its easier to work with than paraffin. (Plus I have a lot of both waxes) I'm side by side burning a pure 464 and a 464/4627 right now and they can burn well past the 3 hour mark without the slighest hint of a flame problem. HOWEVER. Neither are scented. And I  know your oil changes this A lot. The pure 464 has an HTP 126 and the mix has a 105. the 105 is tunneling slightly, I'm thinking with oil it may be enough or even too much of a wick. The 126 gets a very small wall to wall pool which is pleasing visually. I have not checked temp tho. At this point with these 2 I'm kinda just enjoying watching them burn. 

 

4627 is a high scent wax as I understand, and adding tht 20% smoothed out the rough sandpapery texture that 464 has when new or when freshly burned. Not being 6006 means no risk of tunneling (4627 is like vaseline its.. SUPER goopy..) 

 

Poured a scented and dyed sample saturday, will test it in 2 weeks. It's already frosting, so.. might have to go dyeless on candles. (Which I'm ok with to a degree. Would just need to "Rebrand" a bit so to speak..) 

 

Will keep you in the loop!

 

I also basically went to flaming candle and got 1 of everything wick wise. So.. guess there's more testing.. god I hate testing. 

Any updates?  I use 6006 and use premier wicks. They are the only ones I could get to work properly. I do mushroom at times but little to zero sooting. 

 

Testing can be very tiresome. I'm testing right now with 2 new scents. One is throwing great the other is very faint.