Failing Chandler

[KMB]

Is there a group for would be candle makers?

I feel like I am doing everything right and have tested SO MANY different ways..why cant I get this? I really suck at this. 

 

Finding and reading this site is my last attempt after months of testing. None of my candles smell beautiful. The last batch had a hint of sent and by 2 hours smelled of petroleum or...something not pretty.

 

I started with a ton of waxs and FO then decided to concentrate on one wax and one FO with ALL THE WICKS

 

This adventure started with the love of candles and I am starting to absolutely dread making them. I dont know where to go.

 

I used 6006 I heat it to 190-200 then add FO at 180/185 stir for 2 minutes and pour. Looks beautiful.

[TallTayl]

2 hours ago, KMB said:

Is there a group for would be candle makers?

I feel like I am doing everything right and have tested SO MANY different ways..why cant I get this? I really suck at this. 

 

Finding and reading this site is my last attempt after months of testing. None of my candles smell beautiful. The last batch had a hint of sent and by 2 hours smelled of petroleum or...something not pretty.

 

I started with a ton of waxs and FO then decided to concentrate on one wax and one FO with ALL THE WICKS

 

This adventure started with the love of candles and I am starting to absolutely dread making them. I dont know where to go.

 

I used 6006 I heat it to 190-200 then add FO at 180/185 stir for 2 minutes and pour. Looks beautiful.

Welcome to the club. You are surrounded with thousands of people just like yourself. Just when we think we’ve got game,  the game changes. You learn a little with every iteration though. 
 

Can you tell us what FO, fo % jar size, jar material, jar shape and wicks you’ve tried?

[KMB]

This is the current test including failed (f).

All wax and FO are 6006 w/ 10%

Diameter my measurement(listed as)

 

Glass 3.75 (4)
CDN8 x2, CDN10 x2,
 LX 21in ww tube(f), LX12 x3, LX12 x2(f), LX18 x2
.03x.325 x3(f), 03x.5 x2(f), .03x.75(f), .02x.5
ECO2 x3(f), ECO4 x2, ECO2 x2 w/tube(f), ECO2 x2, ECO2 x3
HTP83 x2(f), HTP62 x3(f), HTP93 x2, 

 

Glass 345 (3.98)
ECO4 x2, CDN2 x2, 

 

Glass <3/>3 (3.94) varies skull
HTP105 

 

Glass 2.95(3)
.02x625, .03x325(f),.03x.5(f), ECO8

 

Glass 2.99 (3)
ww.03x.5(f), ww.02x625, LX18(f), LX21, 

 

Glass 3.54(4)
ww.02x.75, .03x.75(f), 02x625booster(f), 

 

Glass 3.39 (4)
HTP72 x2(f), .03x.75(f), .02x.75

 

Glass 2.56
ECO2

 

Tin 2.95
ECO8(f), ECO12, ww tube(f), .03x.625, CD8(f), CD10

 

Tin 3.24 
ww .03x.5(f), .03x.625, .02x.625, HTP93(f)

 

There have been so many before this round. But this is where I at now.

I feel like I start narrowing in and it doesnt work.

Why isnt there a recipe book?

A burn catalog? A place to start. I start by looking at the guide recommendations and go from there. None of them have worked.

 

Already some of the burns are at 3 hours and they are starting to tunnel or the mp is cloudy or the flame is fizzling down to nothing or the container is hot... is depression from self care crafting a thing? 🙄🤣🤣🙄🤯😶

🤦‍♀️ complete loss. 

 

[TallTayl]

My first read over on each of those is most combos seem over wicked for that wax.

the shape of the jars matters.  Any with a neck or shoulders will be hotter than jars with straight sides from top to bottom.

 

tapered jars are nearly impossible for most seasoned chandlers.

 

proportions of the jars matters.  Jars and tins that are shorter than they are wide are difficult. People are tempted to over wick to compensate for no early headspace to start the chimney effect. The end of the candle is a disaster.

 

iMO the easiest jar to wick is the Libbey status jar available at most dollar stores. It is about 3” wide and 4” tall. If I can’t get decent HT and a clean burn in it with most waxes then I  am doing something wrong. The proportions are about perfect.

resist the advice to aim for a full melt pool on the first burn. Full melt pools are a limit not a goal.
 

a little hang up on the first few burns is not tunneling.  Hang up catches up by the middle and is desirable -  Despite what many new chandlers have been misled to believe.

 

I suspect your issues from the first post can largely be eliminated simply by wicking down. If you are smelling burning wax fines, chances are overwicking is the cause.
 

High fragrance loads for 6006 are not generally needed and really mess up an otherwise potentially good burn. 6-8% is usually more than enough.  
 

Different FO can require different wicks.  When learning your wax, it is a good idea to stick with the same FO or risk shooting at a moving target in The dark with a blindfold over your eyes. I choose the same bottle of fo for all new containers and new waxes just so I know where to start with wicks. This cuts my testing time and costs down considerably. If a proven winner fragrance does not burn well or throw well in a new combo I know where to go next.

 

[KMB]

46 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

My first read over on each of those is most combos seem over wicked for that wax.

the shape of the jars matters.  Any with a neck or shoulders will be hotter than jars with straight sides from top to bottom.

 

tapered jars are nearly impossible for most seasoned chandlers.

 

proportions of the jars matters.  Jars and tins that are shorter than they are wide are difficult. People are tempted to over wick to compensate for no early headspace to start the chimney effect. The end of the candle is a disaster.

 

iMO the easiest jar to wick is the Libbey status jar available at most dollar stores. It is about 3” wide and 4” tall. If I can’t get decent HT and a clean burn in it with most waxes then I  am doing something wrong. The proportions are about perfect.

resist the advice to aim for a full melt pool on the first burn. Full melt pools are a limit not a goal.
 

a little hang up on the first few burns is not tunneling.  Hang up catches up by the middle and is desirable -  Despite what many new chandlers have been misled to believe.

 

I suspect your issues from the first post can largely be eliminated simply by wicking down. If you are smelling burning wax fines, chances are overwicking is the cause.
 

High fragrance loads for 6006 are not generally needed and really mess up an otherwise potentially good burn. 6-8% is usually more than enough.  
 

Different FO can require different wicks.  When learning your wax, it is a good idea to stick with the same FO or risk shooting at a moving target in The dark with a blindfold over your eyes. I choose the same bottle of fo for all new containers and new waxes just so I know where to start with wicks. This cuts my testing time and costs down considerably. If a proven winner fragrance does not burn well or throw well in a new combo I know where to go next.

 

Thank you.

I do get caught up looking for the melt pool. But now I am ok if I dont get it on the first burn run. I usually can label tunneling by the end of the second. It doesnt get any wider just deeper.

 

Most of my jars ar st. Sides with the exception of the skull - it is a sample that I am debating but so far (4hr) the LX is working. And the fleur from dream vessels - this does taper down..so🤦‍♀️

 

When you say over wicking I would live to start small but when I do they tunnel.. or the flam is smothered out. So I am forced to go up.

Can you throw me an idea what you would try?

For example the libbey 2996 is driving me nuts because it should be so easy. 

The silver tin from CS the CD 8 isnt enough and the 10 just burns a deep pool to the bottom

 

I plan to go down to 8% on the next round.

[NightLight]

Fragrance oil matters. Where are you buying them from. Stick with two containers. Testing takes time especially when new.  Do not test a full container. Test half way down to find wick. Sometimes a different wick series for in between sizes is necessary. There is a CD 9 wick. Sometimes you adjust a fragrance to wick it by diluting with another to make it easier to wick, but this requires experience. Same thing with 6006. You can adjust the wax with another soy wax.

 

I never wick at 10 per cent. 5 - 7 per cent. You need to to pour three testers 6,7,10 and see how the wick burns. It should behave differently. 

[bfroberts]

Some of those wick sizes are spot on.  Are you allowing the candle plenty of time to cure?  Burning too soon can give false results, especially with 6006.  That wax continues to harden for while after the candle is poured, and a test burn after 2 days can look very different than a test burn after 2 weeks.

[Forrest]

What is your temp after you add the FO, and what is it after stirring? You may need to add the FO at a higher temp and/or add some heat while stirring. I had a batch of 6006 candles once where I added the FO at 180 and stirred for two minutes that gave no HT, It turned out that my wax was getting too cool and I wasn't getting proper blending. I would also echo what bfroberts said about cure time. 6006 contains soy and the longer you wait to test the better the HT will be.

[KMB]

4 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Some of those wick sizes are spot on.  Are you allowing the candle plenty of time to cure?  Burning too soon can give false results, especially with 6006.  That wax continues to harden for while after the candle is poured, and a test burn after 2 days can look very different than a test burn after 2 weeks.

Yes. 1 to 2 weeks

[KMB]

5 hours ago, NightLight said:

Fragrance oil matters. Where are you buying them from. Stick with two containers. Testing takes time especially when new.  Do not test a full container. Test half way down to find wick. Sometimes a different wick series for in between sizes is necessary. There is a CD 9 wick. Sometimes you adjust a fragrance to wick it by diluting with another to make it easier to wick, but this requires experience. Same thing with 6006. You can adjust the wax with another soy wax.

 

I never wick at 10 per cent. 5 - 7 per cent. You need to to pour three testers 6,7,10 and see how the wick burns. It should behave differently. 

I wish I could find a chart that compared alternative wicks. Like, if the 8 isnt enough and the 10 is too much switch to this brand and tey number.... I have read that wicks burn hotter than others.

 

The i just read that CDN is similiar to CD and doesnt burn as hot. So I am going to try a CDN 10 and see if it is less aggressive then the CD10 🤷‍♀️

[SRez]

35 minutes ago, KMB said:

I wish I could find a chart that compared alternative wicks. Like, if the 8 isnt enough and the 10 is too much switch to this brand and tey number.... I have read that wicks burn hotter than others.

 

The i just read that CDN is similiar to CD and doesnt burn as hot. So I am going to try a CDN 10 and see if it is less aggressive then the CD10 🤷‍♀️

Not sure if this is what you're looking for... but I posted a pic of a spreadsheet a little while back sorted by the yield. 

 

It shows CD / CDN, HTP, ECO and Premier. 

 

I find that the HTP's and CD / CDN's are somewhat comparable with the batch of 6006 that I have along with the couple of FO's that I've been testing. 

 

  

[bfroberts]

48 minutes ago, KMB said:

Yes. 1 to 2 weeks

I find that 2 weeks is optimal....not too long to wait, but long enough for much of the magic to happen.

The Eco 8 is generally appropriate for tins and misc. 3" (ish) containers using 6-7% FO.  I'd lower the FO load.  

[KMB]

6 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Some of those wick sizes are spot on.  Are you allowing the candle plenty of time to cure?  Burning too soon can give false results, especially with 6006.  That wax continues to harden for while after the candle is poured, and a test burn after 2 days can look very different than a test burn after 2 weeks.

They didnt look spot on 🥺

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, KMB said:

They didnt look spot on 🥺

I have been having some nice luck with CDN in softer natural waxes. CDN is not appropriate for all wax types, but they have been lovely in coconut paraffin blends like coco83/easybeads blends and  6046/6570 (primarily soft paraffin plus coconut) even when blended with a bit of soy.

 

I never had any luck with LX. I wanted to, but they fizzle after a short time burning. All of the photos I've seen in blogs that promote LX as the end all be all for candles show them just lit, not after an hour.

 

HTP never lived up to the expectations either.  Supposedly they are nearly twin sisters to CD. I'd call them close cousins.

 

ECO always tend to get too hot through the candle's life. I have maybe one or two severely hard to burn fragrances that need an ECO otherwise they snuff out.

 

CSN fills some of the gaps, but are hard to get and can run a bit hot. The wick can tilt from the tab connection in soft waxes if not careful. I used these quite a bit over the years and am sadangry they are not readily available any more.

 

RRD burn pretty hot, and make the "U" shaped melt pool which works well for some waxes. The "U" melt pool fools many into over wicking thinking it is a tunnel when it is actually just the way these wicks burn most typical waxes.

 

I relied on CD mostly for the last decade or so. The curl is maddening since it offsets the melt pool, but can be compensated for. They are flat and can lean in soft waxes under their own weight right from the tab where the crimp in the tab is made during tabbing.

 

CDN is a CD with a second chemical treatment for more acidic waxes. CDN tend  burn cooler in primarily soy blends in my experience, and hotter in newer natural waxes that contain soft paraffins and coconut. The curl is the same as the base CD wick, and these too can lean from the base where the tab crimp is made.

 

Some of your burn differences between BFRoberts and others might be your actual FO. Some essences make candles burn MUCH hotter, and others choke the wicks severely. 

 

Wooden wicks are just too much of a crap shoot.  Wics from the same pack burned entirely differently in many of my candles made at the same time. I make one on occasion for myself since  I can swap out as needed if something goes horribly wrong.

[bfroberts]

2 hours ago, KMB said:

They didnt look spot on 🥺

What was wrong with them?  

[KMB]

I have 4 candles without wicks that will be at 2 weeks in a couple days. But I am going to make a new batch with a new FO from a different company...just to see. And I think my nose is broke..I cannot tell if there is HT. The only thing I note is when there is a fuel scent.

 

What would be your top choice to test in these? 6006 w/8%

1>

*Libbey 6044 glass 3.7" (4" x 4"H))

 

2>

*Libbey 2996 glass 3.82" (4"D x 2.5"H)

 

3>

* WW Black tin 3.25 (3.5"Dx2"H)

 

 

 

[KMB]

Does anyone use zinc?

I have been looking for them but the suppliers I have checked are out or only have a few sizes.

 

I feel like zinc might work great because it burns cooler.

 

I want 2 and 3 wicks without torching the wax. Or drowning the flame so maybe larger but cooler burning? Does that make sense?

[KMB]

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

What was wrong with them?  

They either tunneled- 2 burns

Or the container was too hot or the flame was too small and or smothered out.  Or the flame was to much even when trimmed- fast and deep pool 

[bfroberts]

1 hour ago, KMB said:

They either tunneled- 2 burns

Or the container was too hot or the flame was too small and or smothered out.  Or the flame was to much even when trimmed- fast and deep pool 

6006 burns with a deeper, more narrow melt pool.  You won't get a FMP in the early burns unless you are way over-wicked.  You want some hangup in the first couple of burns.  If you have a FMP early on, you are usually over-wicked.  With a tin, it's really best to have a bit of hangup until near the bottom of the container.    

[KMB]

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

6006 burns with a deeper, more narrow melt pool.  You won't get a FMP in the early burns unless you are way over-wicked.  You want some hangup in the first couple of burns.  If you have a FMP early on, you are usually over-wicked.  With a tin, it's really best to have a bit of hangup until near the bottom of container.    

That is why many failed

 

I want to try to go as small as possible with this next burn.

 

Double and triple.

[pughaus]

19 hours ago, KMB said:

That is why many failed

 

I want to try to go as small as possible with this next burn.

 

Double and triple.

Hi KMB! It looks like you've really been bouncing around trying to wick a variety of vessels. No wonder you're frustrated! May I suggest you pick one, ideally a 3 x 3" or 3 x 4" straight sided tumbler - and nail that vessel down before you try wicking others? Find the right wick for it with NO fragrance oil. Then you'll have your baseline wick for that wax in that vessel.  Everything will be so much easier from that point on. (and you'll waste a whole lot less FO flailing around)  Stick with that vessel. Forget about scent throw for now- just strive to make a candle that burns well first, then you can work on adding FOs into the mix and making a good throwing candle.. in that vessel.  It will all come together much more easily at that point.

Also, I'm wondering if what you are calling "tunneling" .. isn't tunneling at all, but rather the appropriate amount of hang up early in a candle's burn cycle.  My candles don't form an edge to edge melt pool until late in their burn life.  There is typically hang-up and wax clinging to the sides of the vessel until the last 1/2" in a  3" tall tumbler.  I consider this ideal. When it's all done, all the wax has been consumed and the sides are clean. 
 

Pics for reference: One of my tester candles with a new-for-me FO after a burn 1 (6 hours). Would you consider that  tunneling?  
Pic 2 is the same candle after burn 2 (5.5 hrs)  This candle actually has less hang up at this point than usual for me - that cling will all melt down early in the next burn and I may very well step down 1 wick size for the next tester to see how that fares.

 

[KMB]

22 minutes ago, pughaus said:

Hi KMB! It looks like you've really been bouncing around trying to wick a variety of vessels. No wonder you're frustrated! May I suggest you pick one, ideally a 3 x 3" or 3 x 4" straight sided tumbler - and nail that vessel down before you try wicking others? Find the right wick for it with NO fragrance oil. Then you'll have your baseline wick for that wax in that vessel.  Everything will be so much easier from that point on. (and you'll waste a whole lot less FO flailing around)  Stick with that vessel. Forget about scent throw for now- just strive to make a candle that burns well first, then you can work on adding FOs into the mix and making a good throwing candle.. in that vessel.  It will all come together much more easily at that point.

Also, I'm wondering if what you are calling "tunneling" .. isn't tunneling at all, but rather the appropriate amount of hang up early in a candle's burn cycle.  My candles don't form an edge to edge melt pool until late in their burn life.  There is typically hang-up and wax clinging to the sides of the vessel until the last 1/2" in a  3" tall tumbler.  I consider this ideal. When it's all done, all the wax has been consumed and the sides are clean. 
 

Pics for reference: One of my tester candles with a new-for-me FO after a burn 1 (6 hours). Would you consider that  tunneling?  
Pic 2 is the same candle after burn 2 (5.5 hrs)  This candle actually has less hang up at this point than usual for me - that cling will all melt down early in the next burn and I may very well step down 1 wick size for the next tester to see how that fares.

 

Thank you.

I would call that moderate hang up in the first and small to scant in the second. 

 

Tunneling seems to be a sharp drop that never widens with consecutive burns I usually let it roll until the end of the second burn and decide to stop the test.

 

I am much more forgiving of hangup now that I know what it looks like and how it resolves most of the time.

 

I have  a couple jars that are almost ready to wick test and I want to pour a few tonight with a new FO.

 

I have tried so many wicks it feels like a blur and I am at a loss as to which wick to try again.

 

I trust nothing I have done with wicks so far. And honestly I am going down on the % anyway so I feel like starting at the guide recomendation again - Candle science and flaming candle and now I will use the one posted above as a resource as well.

 

I wish I had zinc & premiere but I dont so I will have to choose among - CDN, CD, HTP, ECO, LX and wooden. I dont have all of the sizes though so that can be a problem.

 

 

 

[pughaus]

I'm Team Premier myself.  Works in my wax, but I'm not sure how they do in 6006.

[Brotato]

8 hours ago, pughaus said:

Hi KMB! It looks like you've really been bouncing around trying to wick a variety of vessels. No wonder you're frustrated! May I suggest you pick one, ideally a 3 x 3" or 3 x 4" straight sided tumbler - and nail that vessel down before you try wicking others? Find the right wick for it with NO fragrance oil. Then you'll have your baseline wick for that wax in that vessel.  Everything will be so much easier from that point on. (and you'll waste a whole lot less FO flailing around)  Stick with that vessel. Forget about scent throw for now- just strive to make a candle that burns well first, then you can work on adding FOs into the mix and making a good throwing candle.. in that vessel.  It will all come together much more easily at that point.

Also, I'm wondering if what you are calling "tunneling" .. isn't tunneling at all, but rather the appropriate amount of hang up early in a candle's burn cycle.  My candles don't form an edge to edge melt pool until late in their burn life.  There is typically hang-up and wax clinging to the sides of the vessel until the last 1/2" in a  3" tall tumbler.  I consider this ideal. When it's all done, all the wax has been consumed and the sides are clean. 
 

Pics for reference: One of my tester candles with a new-for-me FO after a burn 1 (6 hours). Would you consider that  tunneling?  
Pic 2 is the same candle after burn 2 (5.5 hrs)  This candle actually has less hang up at this point than usual for me - that cling will all melt down early in the next burn and I may very well step down 1 wick size for the next tester to see how that fares.

 

I appreciate this visual! I am struggling as well for the past year trying to figure out wicking and this is very helpful. Thank you! 

[ErronB]

I don't think 6006 is a good wax for new candle makers to learn with, it's a tough burner and has a high melt point so it's only going to confuse people trying to learn all the other moving parts involved. I hate soy with a passion and won't use it, but I learned years ago with 464 in tins and it was easy to figure out the wicking and other stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by ErronB