Not as happy as I thought I'd be with container palm.

[Forrest]

2 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

I had a batch that was super hard. Much more so than normal variations. I wasted 2 slabs trying to wick it and never could. That was some time last summer. Subsequent shipments have all been fine. Maybe it was just a fluke.  I don't know, but it was a total pain in the rear.

Is it possible they mislabeled  the wax? I just got a slab from Flaming yesterday and I'm going to make a few test candles this weekend, bad wax would really be a problem for someone that didn't know the difference. You wouldn't be wicking any 8oz tins, would you?

[bfroberts]

9 hours ago, Forrest said:

Is it possible they mislabeled  the wax? I just got a slab from Flaming yesterday and I'm going to make a few test candles this weekend, bad wax would really be a problem for someone that didn't know the difference. You wouldn't be wicking any 8oz tins, would you?

I don't really know. It looked like 4630 and the HT was comparable, but it was just super hard.  I'm guessing it was an isolated incident. I've used a lot since that happened and haven't had a single issue.

As for wicks, if you are using zinc, the wicking is very similar to 6006.

[Forrest]

12 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I don't really know. It looked like 4630 and the HT was comparable, but it was just super hard.  I'm guessing it was an isolated incident. I've used a lot since that happened and haven't had a single issue.

As for wicks, if you are using zinc, the wicking is very similar to 6006.

Zinc is still my go to wick, but with the government shutdown I had to stop spending money and I'm down to one 51 zinc. I'll have my order in to FC tomorrow. I guess I can make my first tin with 4630 tomorrow. I've been testing other wicks, they are all different and all have their own issues. It seems to me that there is a pretty big gap between the 44 and 51 zinc and also the 51 and 60, so I'm trying other wicks to fill those gaps, the results have been mixed.

[bfroberts]

24 minutes ago, Forrest said:

Zinc is still my go to wick, but with the government shutdown I had to stop spending money and I'm down to one 51 zinc. I'll have my order in to FC tomorrow. I guess I can make my first tin with 4630 tomorrow. I've been testing other wicks, they are all different and all have their own issues. It seems to me that there is a pretty big gap between the 44 and 51 zinc and also the 51 and 60, so I'm trying other wicks to fill those gaps, the results have been mixed.

If you have LX wicks, they work pretty well also. 

Which 44s are you using? Of the 44s, I only need to use 44-24-18 and 44-32-18. 

[Forrest]

7 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

If you have LX wicks, they work pretty well also. 

Which 44s are you using? Of the 44s, I only need to use 44-24-18 and 44-32-18. 

I do have LXs, I only have the 44-32-18. I have 3 tins with 6006 and Premier 700 series wicks to test starting tomorrow, after that I think I'm through wick testing for a while. TT recommended paper core with 4630 and I could get them for $4 with $16 shipping so I'm going to have to wait on those. 

[Paintguru]

Well I just got a few pounds of the Candlewic container palm, so I'll see if it goes the same way as @bfroberts.  It is interesting stuff; I need to figure out how the wicking works.  

[Paintguru]

On 3/1/2019 at 9:28 AM, Paintguru said:

Well I just got a few pounds of the Candlewic container palm, so I'll see if it goes the same way as @bfroberts.  It is interesting stuff; I need to figure out how the wicking works.  

 

Well I've tested two FOs thus far and neither has thrown much at all.  I'm making three more that I know work well in my 4630 wax, so that should tell me if it is the wax or just the FO.  I'm not going to use this stuff long term if finding good FOs is that difficult.

[Sarah S]

How long are you curing for? It needs a good two weeks, minimum. Also, the wick has got to be hot, hot, hot, if it's the least bit under wicked the throw will be dismal.

It's definitely fussier than paraffin, but once you really get a feel for how it burns it gets a lot easier to produce an excellent candle. 

I was testing for at least four months before I felt competent.

22 minutes ago, Paintguru said:

 

Well I've tested two FOs thus far and neither has thrown much at all.  I'm making three more that I know work well in my 4630 wax, so that should tell me if it is the wax or just the FO.  I'm not going to use this stuff long term if finding good FOs is that difficult.

 

[Paintguru]

45 minutes ago, Sarah S said:

How long are you curing for? It needs a good two weeks, minimum. Also, the wick has got to be hot, hot, hot, if it's the least bit under wicked the throw will be dismal.

It's definitely fussier than paraffin, but once you really get a feel for how it burns it gets a lot easier to produce an excellent candle. 

I was testing for at least four months before I felt competent.

 

 

That is good to know.  They did get about 1-2 weeks cure, but I'll make extra sure with the next batch.  I'm using a CD20 in the 9 oz. straight sided jar, which gets me a reasonable melt pool once it burns down half way.  I can see the potential with the wax, that is for sure, but I don't want to have crappy throwing candles!  I loaded the FO at ~6% as well.  

[Sarah S]

4 hours ago, Paintguru said:

 

That is good to know.  They did get about 1-2 weeks cure, but I'll make extra sure with the next batch.  I'm using a CD20 in the 9 oz. straight sided jar, which gets me a reasonable melt pool once it burns down half way.  I can see the potential with the wax, that is for sure, but I don't want to have crappy throwing candles!  I loaded the FO at ~6% as well.  

 

I totally understand, that's why I threw in the towel early on with soy, for me it just wasn't worth the struggle.

I have been trying a couple different wicks with this container palm, just to see what they do, but personally I think the CSN  performs the best and that is my #1 choice for wicking palm. I haven't done any testing with CDs though, so I couldn't give you a comparison.

I use 6% too, and not every oil will throw well. But to be fair, the ones I have that didn't throw also performed poorly in the CBL 125, and we all know I consider that to be the gold standard of wax.

Just typing some thoughts here, it may also be the 9oz jar to blame. I have a 8oz glass tumbler that I pour beverage-scented Palm candles in, scents like Caramel Latte, Pumpkin Chai, Mulled Cider... All super strong oils that throw great. But darned if those tumblers have a pitiful HT! They look fantastic, but I tell everyone that they are best as accent candles, and they shouldn't rely on them to scent a whole room. Now, I have a 16oz straight jar, it's not much taller, but it's wider, and the same FO will fill my living room. Put the same FO in a 16oz salsa jar, and it's filling my whole bottom floor. So anecdotally, I think the wider jars significantly improve the HT. More so (again, anecdotally) than you would find with a paraffin wax. That is purely speculation on my part though.

[jerry]

21 minutes ago, Sarah S said:

it may also be the 9oz jar to blame

So THAT'S my problem?! Lol - I'm sure I have several. Lately, the best HT I've gotten - thanks to your rec - has been with FC's Iced Lemon Biscotti. Beyond that, I've been hiding my frustration in soap making.

 

-end of the thread jack-

[TallTayl]

3 minutes ago, jerry said:

So THAT'S my problem?! Lol - I'm sure I have several. Lately, the best HT I've gotten - thanks to your rec - has been with FC's Iced Lemon Biscotti. Beyond that, I've been hiding my frustration in soap making.

 

-end of the thread jack-

I’m with you. Palm container wax was never “all that” in any I’ve made or burned. 🤷🏻‍♀️ No matter the container size, shape, whatever.  Now palm in other waxes is pretty great when you hit a balance. 

[Paintguru]

2 hours ago, Sarah S said:

 

I totally understand, that's why I threw in the towel early on with soy, for me it just wasn't worth the struggle.

I have been trying a couple different wicks with this container palm, just to see what they do, but personally I think the CSN  performs the best and that is my #1 choice for wicking palm. I haven't done any testing with CDs though, so I couldn't give you a comparison.

I use 6% too, and not every oil will throw well. But to be fair, the ones I have that didn't throw also performed poorly in the CBL 125, and we all know I consider that to be the gold standard of wax.

Just typing some thoughts here, it may also be the 9oz jar to blame. I have a 8oz glass tumbler that I pour beverage-scented Palm candles in, scents like Caramel Latte, Pumpkin Chai, Mulled Cider... All super strong oils that throw great. But darned if those tumblers have a pitiful HT! They look fantastic, but I tell everyone that they are best as accent candles, and they shouldn't rely on them to scent a whole room. Now, I have a 16oz straight jar, it's not much taller, but it's wider, and the same FO will fill my living room. Put the same FO in a 16oz salsa jar, and it's filling my whole bottom floor. So anecdotally, I think the wider jars significantly improve the HT. More so (again, anecdotally) than you would find with a paraffin wax. That is purely speculation on my part though.

 

Interesting theory.  Again, I feel like I've had good luck with my 9 oz jars with other waxes (4630 again).  I have a few more pounds to play with so I'll see if I can make it work.  I do have some CSNs I can try as well.  

[bfroberts]

I still feel pretty blah about container palm.  After my initial disappointment, I learned to cure a little longer and that helped somewhat.  I upped the fragrance load to 6%, and that helped a bit.  Still, I'm not overly impressed.  I poured about 2 dozen different scents last fall and tucked them away.  Testing them now, and I just don't think they are that great.  Some are good enough to sell, but overall this wax just seems more finicky about FO's than the other two waxes I use.  I am just about to be over container palm.  
On a positive note....pillar palm has been an absolute joy to work with.

[Sarah S]

9 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I still feel pretty blah about container palm.  After my initial disappointment, I learned to cure a little longer and that helped somewhat.  I upped the fragrance load to 6%, and that helped a bit.  Still, I'm not overly impressed.  I poured about 2 dozen different scents last fall and tucked them away.  Testing them now, and I just don't think they are that great.  Some are good enough to sell, but overall this wax just seems more finicky about FO's than the other two waxes I use.  I am just about to be over container palm.  
On a positive note....pillar palm has been an absolute joy to work with.

 

Are you working with crystal pillar or feather pillar?

I have just started playing with crystal pillar, and it's like I have never made a candle before, lol. So far I've used HTP wicks, and cotton core wicks. Sizing is not at all what I expected. And throw is terrible (no doubt wicking being off is to blame). But they sure are fun to make, and they look absolutely stunning!

[bfroberts]

43 minutes ago, Sarah S said:

 

Are you working with crystal pillar or feather pillar?

I have just started playing with crystal pillar, and it's like I have never made a candle before, lol. So far I've used HTP wicks, and cotton core wicks. Sizing is not at all what I expected. And throw is terrible (no doubt wicking being off is to blame). But they sure are fun to make, and they look absolutely stunning!

I use both but prefer the feather. I'm using CSN wicks, but I have tried HTP and they worked OK.  Have you read the post topofmurrayhill did on wicking palm? I devoured that info, and from there it was easy to dial it in.   

[Sarah S]

22 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I use both but prefer the feather. I'm using CSN wicks, but I have tried HTP and they worked OK.  Have you read the post topofmurrayhill did on wicking palm? I devoured that info, and from there it was easy to dial it in.   

 

I have, but obviously I need to read it a few more times, lol.

I haven't been able to find CSN by the spool, nor wick pins for anything larger than a votive cup. Have you rigged something? Or am I just not looking hard enough? 😄

[bfroberts]

1 hour ago, Sarah S said:

 

I have, but obviously I need to read it a few more times, lol.

I haven't been able to find CSN by the spool, nor wick pins for anything larger than a votive cup. Have you rigged something? Or am I just not looking hard enough? 😄

I don't use wick pins, and I use the tabbed CSN wicks from CS.  

[Candybee]

I have not been using CW's container palm for at least 2-3 years now. That's when I permanently switched to glass glow from C&S and that's all I use now. So I can't speak about CWs crystal container palm from that point on. It was excellent when I used it back then and I never had any problems with it at all. I just preferred the crystal pattern of glass glow much better so finally switched for good.

 

It is possible CW's container palm could have changed but it would have been recently. Its also possible its simply a bad batch. Palm has a distinctive sour or off odor when its no good. 

 

I get excellent scent throw and burn using glass glow with CSN wicks. I did however recently change to a smaller wick, one size down, and have been very pleased with that change. I went from a CSN12 to a CSN9 in my 12 oz straight sided jars and changed my FO load from 6% down to 5%. Incredible as it may sound it actually throws better and burns better than before. Even the cold throw has improved and I'm not sure how that happened but it did.