Double Wicks

[YAMS]

I would like to learn more about double wicking your candles.  What are the guidelines ? Recommendations ?  When should you double wick a candle? How do you place them? Basically, centered, how far apart, etc? I am currently using 4627 with Zinc wicks.  Normally 10 to 11% FO.  Thanks guys.   FYI , new at this as a hobby and for gifting so I don't make a large amount of candles.  

[Chariste]

I have not double wicked 4627 but have been testing doubles in a Libbey 22oz. jar with Advanced. At the moment I concentrate on making sure the wicks are centered yet have about 1" between them. I am on my third set of testers as it seems I either wick too hot or too small! Lol But I'll get there soon enough. By the by, settled on the 60-44-18z for those 12 oz Victorian jars and 44-24-18z for the little 10oz hex and classic jars. I scent at 9%-10%.

 

Have you had any issue with the 4627 accepting cinnamon or blueberry scents, assuming you've tried them? I just got in a new batch from Lonestar because I became suspicious of the batch I have been using from The Candle Makers Store. Any insight you may have on that would be appreciated! 

[Pamaroma]

On 9/29/2016 at 9:24 PM, Chariste said:

I have not double wicked 4627 but have been testing doubles in a Libbey 22oz. jar with Advanced. At the moment I concentrate on making sure the wicks are centered yet have about 1" between them. I am on my third set of testers as it seems I either wick too hot or too small! Lol But I'll get there soon enough. By the by, settled on the 60-44-18z for those 12 oz Victorian jars and 44-24-18z for the little 10oz hex and classic jars. I scent at 9%-10%.

 

Have you had any issue with the 4627 accepting cinnamon or blueberry scents, assuming you've tried them? I just got in a new batch from Lonestar because I became suspicious of the batch I have been using from The Candle Makers Store. Any insight you may have on that would be appreciated! 

I don't use the wax you use but recently tried Natures Gardens blueberry muffin fo in their joy wax they carry which is a soy/par blend and it was an awesome blueberry scent.

[TallTayl]

What I have seen commercially for double wicks, and what has worked for my waxes is "thirds". The wicks divide the diameter into thirds. Works for my 4" cast iron really well. In my case, 4" divided by 3= About 1.33 inches between wicks, the same distance from the container edges. 

[YAMS]

7 hours ago, TallTayl said:

What I have seen commercially for double wicks, and what has worked for my waxes is "thirds". The wicks divide the diameter into thirds. Works for my 4" cast iron really well. In my case, 4" divided by 3= About 1.33 inches between wicks, the same distance from the container edges. 

TallTayl that makes a lot of sense but what size wicks?  

[YAMS]

16 hours ago, Pamaroma said:

I don't use the wax you use but recently tried Natures Gardens blueberry muffin fo in their joy wax they carry which is a soy/par blend and it was an awesome blueberry scent.

Panorama I ended up double wicking a Dollar Tree Square with the 60-44-18.  I am on my third burn and its performing perfectly.  I am using Mcintosh Apple from CS at 10%.  Needless to say I had never tried that FO before because I am not crazy about scents that imitate foods or fruits but I have to say it is amazing and  the wicking is awesome.   I also wicked a 6 oz jelly jar with one of the same wicks and it is too much, burning way too fast.   Thanks for the information.  Oh and to answer your question, I have never tried Cinnamon or Blueberry.  I am not a fan of food or fruit scents but I know that some of my friends and family really like them, so I am giving them a try soon.  I actually have a Cranberry Mermelade from CS to try.   Is there anything I should know about those types before I wick them?   Now that I think about it I also tried Very Vanilla and I love it   So many I do like SOME edible type scents and didn't even know it.  Lol.  Again, thanks 

[bfroberts]

Wow...that is crazy!  I single wick the cube jar with 60 or 62z.  But I don't use your wax.  I use 6006.  I've never used 4627, but I was always under the impression it would wick smaller than 6006.  You learn something new every day!  I love Cranberry Marmalade, by the way.  Fruits are my favorites.  Not so much bakery, but straight fruits...I love 'em.  Good luck!

[TallTayl]

18 hours ago, YAMS said:

TallTayl that makes a lot of sense but what size wicks?  

Depends on the container, wax and wicks. For my 4" cast iron cauldrons with soy wax and heavy fragrance two cd6 work very well. I don't double wick anything less than 4".

[Chariste]

It's not the wicking that is giving me fits with those scents, it is that the wax will not accept much of those types of scents. Blueberry cobbler, for example, will only work up to a 5% concentration, some of the scents with cinnamon only up to 6%. I mixed several summer scents in 4627, including Very Vanilla, up to 10% with no issues but that wax was from Lonestar. So I am just wondering if 4627 simply does not like those scents or if maybe I just lucked out with a bad batch from Candlemakers. Let me say that Candlemakers has excellent customer service and all other products ordered from there have been great. I don't want to seem like I'm bad mouthing them, I'm just trying to diagnose the issue.  

 

I try to initially choose wicks for doubles based on their performance properly single wicked. If a single will only work well in a 1" tea light, let's say, that would not be my first choice to double in a 4" for example. Seems like all testing really starts with a best first guess then work from there based on result. I don't sweat it any more, it's just a reality that testing each configuration is the only way to refine the product. Sounds like you are doing great, thanks for your response!

[wthomas57]

On 10/1/2016 at 5:19 PM, YAMS said:

Panorama I ended up double wicking a Dollar Tree Square with the 60-44-18.  I am on my third burn and its performing perfectly.  I am using Mcintosh Apple from CS at 10%.  Needless to say I had never tried that FO before because I am not crazy about scents that imitate foods or fruits but I have to say it is amazing and  the wicking is awesome.   I also wicked a 6 oz jelly jar with one of the same wicks and it is too much, burning way too fast.   Thanks for the information.  Oh and to answer your question, I have never tried Cinnamon or Blueberry.  I am not a fan of food or fruit scents but I know that some of my friends and family really like them, so I am giving them a try soon.  I actually have a Cranberry Mermelade from CS to try.   Is there anything I should know about those types before I wick them?   Now that I think about it I also tried Very Vanilla and I love it   So many I do like SOME edible type scents and didn't even know it.  Lol.  Again, thanks 

Hey there YAMS..

 

I would strongly consider you do some more testing. I know you said you just do this for friends and family, but either way... you dont want to make dangerous candles. Double wicking with 60-44-18 is insane! Unless your using... like a bucket... for your container.    I double wick my big metal pale citronella candles with 62s simply because you want bigger hotter smokier wicks for outdoor citronella candles.  But using 2 60-44s in a regular jar is way too much! That jar is going to get super hot, your gonna have tons of soot and smoke. Perhaps not on all of them... but overall that is way too much wick. I use 6006 which requires more wicking than 4627 and still would never come close to double wicking with z60s. Those are my thoughts on it... Id definitely wick down to be honest. Maybe try like 32s or 44s?

 

also...

 

cranberry marmalade is awesome.

I very much dislike very vanilla (way to rich). actually makes me nauseous. Most people I have asked didn't care for it either. 

And FWIW... Macintosh Apple is a stape among fragrances. One of the easier fragrances to wick, performs great in almost anything.. strong though.

[YAMS]

16 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

Hey there YAMS..

 

I would strongly consider you do some more testing. I know you said you just do this for friends and family, but either way... you dont want to make dangerous candles. Double wicking with 60-44-18 is insane! Unless your using... like a bucket... for your container.    I double wick my big metal pale citronella candles with 62s simply because you want bigger hotter smokier wicks for outdoor citronella candles.  But using 2 60-44s in a regular jar is way too much! That jar is going to get super hot, your gonna have tons of soot and smoke. Perhaps not on all of them... but overall that is way too much wick. I use 6006 which requires more wicking than 4627 and still would never come close to double wicking with z60s. Those are my thoughts on it... Id definitely wick down to be honest. Maybe try like 32s or 44s?

 

also...

 

cranberry marmalade is awesome.

I very much dislike very vanilla (way to rich). actually makes me nauseous. Most people I have asked didn't care for it either. 

And FWIW... Macintosh Apple is a stape among fragrances. One of the easier fragrances to wick, performs great in almost anything.. strong though.

Hey WThomas, 

Thanks for the suggestions.  Thinking about it you are right.  They perform well so far but it makes sense that it is way too much wicking.   I will go down to 32s or 44s.  I ready to order some.   I recently made some Cintronellas for my backyard and ironically I used one z60.  Geez, that's when it called for two.  Lol.   

 

I agree with Very Vanilla, my friends either LOVE it or HATE it.   Macintosh Apple is the bomb!!!!  I am hooked on it.  

 

Again, thanks for passing the knowledge to newbies like me.   

[Chariste]

Update on 4627 wax, don't mean to kinda hijack this thread but wanted to post an update on the performance of the new 4627. As I posted earlier, the 4627 I purchased from The Candlemakers Store could not handle more than a 4-6% FO load from cinnamon, blueberry, or even caramel apple scents. I just poured a fresh tester using 4627 purchased from Lonestar. Differences in the wax in the bag include a firmer texture plus a white "frothy" or whipped appearance in the top/sides of the wax from TCM store vs Lonestar's wax which is "froth" free and has a somewhat softer, creamier texture. The Lonestar wax exhibited a somewhat opaque appearance as it melted and, once fully melted, reminded me of soft soap in that i could see swirls in the wax as I stirred even up to 180 degrees. I added .94 oz. Pumpkin Pie Spice FO (9%) and it mixed in ok, there were suspended particles visible in the wax but nothing settled to the bottom as it did in TCM store wax. I am cautiously optimistic and will update once I start the burn. It seems silly that wax made from the same manufacturer is not the same from different retailers. As I stated before, don't want to sound like The Candle Makers Store is subpar, have had great service from them, just wanting to relay my experience in the hope it helps someone else.   Also, YAMS, I am testing this pour in a 12 oz square Victorian with a 51-32-18z. I had initially settled on the 60-44-18z but by the end of the test burn, I thought a test of the 51 would not be out of line. Hope you are doing well and making progress.

[Clear Black]

7 hours ago, Chariste said:

Update on 4627 wax, don't mean to kinda hijack this thread but wanted to post an update on the performance of the new 4627. As I posted earlier, the 4627 I purchased from The Candlemakers Store could not handle more than a 4-6% FO load from cinnamon, blueberry, or even caramel apple scents. I just poured a fresh tester using 4627 purchased from Lonestar. Differences in the wax in the bag include a firmer texture plus a white "frothy" or whipped appearance in the top/sides of the wax from TCM store vs Lonestar's wax which is "froth" free and has a somewhat softer, creamier texture. The Lonestar wax exhibited a somewhat opaque appearance as it melted and, once fully melted, reminded me of soft soap in that i could see swirls in the wax as I stirred even up to 180 degrees. I added .94 oz. Pumpkin Pie Spice FO (9%) and it mixed in ok, there were suspended particles visible in the wax but nothing settled to the bottom as it did in TCM store wax. I am cautiously optimistic and will update once I start the burn. It seems silly that wax made from the same manufacturer is not the same from different retailers. As I stated before, don't want to sound like The Candle Makers Store is subpar, have had great service from them, just wanting to relay my experience in the hope it helps someone else.   Also, YAMS, I am testing this pour in a 12 oz square Victorian with a 51-32-18z. I had initially settled on the 60-44-18z but by the end of the test burn, I thought a test of the 51 would not be out of line. Hope you are doing well and making progress.

 

Im going to chime in here as I only use 4627 and mostly food themed FO's. I purchase my wax from Candle Science, here: https://www.candlescience.com/wax/igi-4627 the price comes out to $1.68/lb BEFORE shipping. If you find it anywhere cheaper please let me know. I looked long and hard and CS had the cheapest prices and I trust them. 

 

On to the FO's. I use Red Hot Cinnamon and Blueberry Cheesecake (smells moslty of just Blueberries) both from Candle Science. i use them both at 11% and my basic method is to heat the 4627 wax to 170*, add FO and stir while heating wax to 180* and pouring. Keep in mind I use metal tins so I am not pouring at temps to minimize wet spots, I just use this method after researching 4627 and reviews on this method seemed to yield great results. So far, my Red Hot Cinnamon and Blueberry Cheesecake are amongst the top 5 heaviest throwers I have out of 30+ FO's. Macintosh Apple from CS is in that top 5 as well. 

 

I would suggest buying a few 1oz bottles of your food FO's from another vendor and trying again. Ive purchased the same FO from 5 different vendors and only have one that yielded positive results. Just last night I made a Kentucky Bourbon tester. OOB the fragrance smelled divine. Made me want to run out and buy a bottle of Jim Beam whiskey lol. After making a tester with 11% and the above method of melt/pour, I took a whiff this morning and almost couldnt smell a thing. It was definetly there, but not as strong as it was OOB. Its either going to be a dud, or take a few days/week to cure. I dont typically need a cure time longer than 24hrs with 4627 to determine if its a keeper, so sadly this one just may be a loss. Too bad, because I was going to pair this with the Cabernet Grape I have to make a his/her gift box.

 

Hope this helps in any way. Any questions feel free to PM or if OP doesnt mind leave here

Edited October 9, 2016 by Clear Black

[birdcharm]

On 10/4/2016 at 2:44 PM, wthomas57 said:

Double wicking with 60-44-18 is insane! Unless your using... like a bucket... for your container.  

 

I must say, I thought that was funny (in a serious kind of way, of course!)   

If I find that I have to use multiple wicks, such as in an oval, square, or larger diameter (if a single larger wick won't do, such as in a tart pan), I try to envision the meltpool size of the wicks.  If I have a 4-inch+ diameter, then two wicks that each create approx. a 2-2.25" meltpool would be the ones for me to start testing with, for instance.  That's the guideline I start with anyway!  So, yes, a 60/44/18, is typically for a 3-3.5" candle, so in order to double wick with that size wick, the container should be about 5-6"+ across, imo.

Edited October 9, 2016 by birdcharm

[wthomas57]

20 hours ago, birdcharm said:

 

I must say, I thought that was funny (in a serious kind of way, of course!)   

If I find that I have to use multiple wicks, such as in an oval, square, or larger diameter (if a single larger wick won't do, such as in a tart pan), I try to envision the meltpool size of the wicks.  If I have a 4-inch+ diameter, then two wicks that each create approx. a 2-2.25" meltpool would be the ones for me to start testing with, for instance.  That's the guideline I start with anyway!  So, yes, a 60/44/18, is typically for a 3-3.5" candle, so in order to double wick with that size wick, the container should be about 5-6"+ across, imo.

Agreed. As I said... a bucket, or a small pale at the very least. 

[YAMS]

3 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

Agreed. As I said... a bucket, or a small pale at the very least. 

That makes sense.  I will follow that going forward.   

 

[Chariste]

On 10/9/2016 at 9:54 AM, Clear Black said:

 

Im going to chime in here as I only use 4627 and mostly food themed FO's. I purchase my wax from Candle Science, here: https://www.candlescience.com/wax/igi-4627 the price comes out to $1.68/lb BEFORE shipping. If you find it anywhere cheaper please let me know. I looked long and hard and CS had the cheapest prices and I trust them. 

 

On to the FO's. I use Red Hot Cinnamon and Blueberry Cheesecake (smells moslty of just Blueberries) both from Candle Science. i use them both at 11% and my basic method is to heat the 4627 wax to 170*, add FO and stir while heating wax to 180* and pouring. Keep in mind I use metal tins so I am not pouring at temps to minimize wet spots, I just use this method after researching 4627 and reviews on this method seemed to yield great results. So far, my Red Hot Cinnamon and Blueberry Cheesecake are amongst the top 5 heaviest throwers I have out of 30+ FO's. Macintosh Apple from CS is in that top 5 as well. 

 

I would suggest buying a few 1oz bottles of your food FO's from another vendor and trying again. Ive purchased the same FO from 5 different vendors and only have one that yielded positive results. Just last night I made a Kentucky Bourbon tester. OOB the fragrance smelled divine. Made me want to run out and buy a bottle of Jim Beam whiskey lol. After making a tester with 11% and the above method of melt/pour, I took a whiff this morning and almost couldnt smell a thing. It was definetly there, but not as strong as it was OOB. Its either going to be a dud, or take a few days/week to cure. I dont typically need a cure time longer than 24hrs with 4627 to determine if its a keeper, so sadly this one just may be a loss. Too bad, because I was going to pair this with the Cabernet Grape I have to make a his/her gift box.

 

Hope this helps in any way. Any questions feel free to PM or if OP doesnt mind leave here

Hey, Clear Black, thanks for the response! I hear you and understand what you mean. I ordered Black Raspberry Vanilla, for example, from 4 different places just to find the one I liked the best.  I use FO's from The Candlemaker's Store, Candlescience, and Lonestar predominantly. I also cost checked #50 4627 and, with shipping, listed out at $110.05 from Aztec, $113.91 from The Candlemaker's Store, $114.04 from Lonestar, and $118.12 from Candlescience. Shipping cost of course is the biggest variable, I always run a few "carts" from different  places in order to find the best deal. But that, as we've seen, informs my issue since the wax from two different retailers acts in such very different ways. At any rate, posting these findings in the hopes it helps someone else.  I just ordered #50 of GW444 and Eco Soya Advanced from Aztec as the shipping and thus overall cost was cheapest. But I am also only 4 hours away from both Aztec and The Candlemaker's Store.  As demand (hopefully!) for my product rises, I have considered even making a large order for pickup just to save in shipping costs. I guess I have been spoiled by Amazon Prime shipping, I was shocked to discover what shipping can run. Thanks for your help, though, so much depends on supplier!

[YAMS]

On 10/1/2016 at 8:13 PM, bfroberts said:

Wow...that is crazy!  I single wick the cube jar with 60 or 62z.  But I don't use your wax.  I use 6006.  I've never used 4627, but I was always under the impression it would wick smaller than 6006.  You learn something new every day!  I love Cranberry Marmalade, by the way.  Fruits are my favorites.  Not so much bakery, but straight fruits...I love 'em.  Good luck!

You are right about it being crazy.  It must have been that one FO that worked okay.  I double wicked it this way recently with Mac Apple and epic fail!!!!!    The flames were out of control and the soot don't even mention.  I will not be using two 60z again for double wicking.  

[bfroberts]

58 minutes ago, YAMS said:

You are right about it being crazy.  It must have been that one FO that worked okay.  I double wicked it this way recently with Mac Apple and epic fail!!!!!    The flames were out of control and the soot don't even mention.  I will not be using two 60z again for double wicking.  

I don't use many heavy FO's.  I'm not a big fan of bakery or spicy scents.  I use mostly fruit, ozone, that kind of thing.  Once in a while I'll test something outside my norm and it will blow my mind how one scent can require a huge leap in wick size, so I know exactly what you mean.