no hot throw and flickering flame

[lilyfield]

Hi I have made about 30 candles and they are no good. (30 different ways) I've been using the cb advanced and although there is a cold throw there isnt much of a fragrance and the flame dances of flickers. Have tried changing wicks but no luck. Can someone please tell me detailed instructions of how to use this wax. I have been using 10% fragrance oil. So do you heat the wax to a certain temperature and wait for it to cool down to a certain temperature to add fragrance oil and then wait and pour at a lower temperature? or do you take the wax to say 185 and throw it in straight away and then pour? I keep reading that the fragrance evaporates if you dont pour straight away. But then I keep reading to pour at a low temperature so how does that work? Thats the complete opposite? Can someone please give me detailed instructions with temperatures I am very frustrated. I've been letting them cure for 3-4 days before burning. Oh and do you mix fragrance with metal or wooden stick or spoon? 

Thanks 

[Belinda]

I don't use soy but I'm sure someone will chime in with experience with this wax. Maybe they aren't curing long enough? I was thinking with soy you needed several days to cure but I could be wrong. 

I hope you find out what 's going on. Hopefully it's something easy to resolve. 

[TallTayl]

I don't ise that wax, but do know how finicky soy is to work with.

What scents, wicks, containers (size and material), etc. have you used?

How long are you curing them?

When testing a wick and container with my soy, i use one or two known great throwers in my system and go from there.

[Guest OldGlory]

Your best bet is to call the people who sold you the supplies and ask them. I buy most of my supplies from Aztec in Knoxville, and if I have a question I just call them. Some websites tell you exactly how to use the wax you are buying - heat to (this) temp, pour at (this) temp, etc.

I make a lot of soy wax candles, but I use 464 and Premier wicks and get a fabulous hot throw. I have never used the wax you are using. You can read a lot about 464 and c3 in the vegetable wax candles section.

Also, this craft takes a LOT of testing before you get a good product. Lots of people test for a year or more before they get what they want, and spend thousands in the process. 30 candles is just a start!

[lilyfield]

I have talked to the suppliers they just say heat to 85 deg, put fragrance at 75 deg and pour at 65 deg. But this doesnt work and Ive tried other temperatures.  But I was reading that the flashpoint of a fragrance is important of a fragrance. can someone please enlighten me about this.  And do you pour straight after the fragrance is mixed in?

[MLG]

I don't use this wax, but here is a link to Candle Science. They say to pour at 120 degrees. I also checked on Lonestar Candle Supply and they recommend pouring between 115 - 125 degrees. There also some excellent reviews on both these sites which offer some extra "tips" for using this wax.

https://www.candlescience.com/wax/ecosoya-advanced-soy-wax/

http://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/products/candlewax_ecosoya-cb-advanced-soy-container-wax.html

Edited October 14, 2015 by MLG

[lilyfield]

Hi can somebody please tell me if the fragrance is the problem or the wax if your flame is flickering and dancing around. I have tried a smaller wick but it doesn't solve the problem. And there is no need for a bigger wick as there is a perfect melt pool. So whats causing it? Thanks.

[GoldieMN]

I keep reading that the fragrance evaporates if you dont pour straight away. But then I keep reading to pour at a low temperature so how does that work? Thats the complete opposite? Can someone please give me detailed instructions with temperatures I am very frustrated. I've been letting them cure for 3-4 days before burning. Oh and do you mix fragrance with metal or wooden stick or spoon? 

Thanks

I use 464 soy so maybe your wax instructions are different. But I heat to 180-185, immediately ADD my fragrance oil, stir for 3 minutes, then wait to POUR into my jars at around 130. So when you say "fragrance evaporates if you don't POUR straight away", I wasn't sure if you meant if you don't ADD the fragrance right away or really mean POURING the hot, hot wax immediately after ADDING the FO. I'm just wondering if that is what is confusing you as to when to pour into your containers. Also, I wait 2 loooooonnnnngggg weeks before testing (burning) my candles. Not sure what others use to stir, but I use wood paint sticks. Would be interested to know if that is the wrong thing to use. Finally, if I get a good hot throw all the way to the bottom of the jar, no soot on the jar, not too hot of a jar after a power burn, I don't care if my flame dances. Good luck, we all know how frustrating it is to get something you are happy with.

GoldieMN

[ChrisR]

I don't use that wax, but have used many different waxes over the years and never heated to anything less than 180 (unless it's beeswax or bayberry wax) and immediately added my FO and stirred.  I know soy you should pour at a cooler temp, but I never poured at less than 140 when I used it.  Personally, I hated soy because there were a lot of FO's that would never throw in soy and I wasted tons of money & time trying to find FO's that would work.  Also, 10% FO is way too much in my opinion and if it's a lousy throwing FO, no amount is gonna make it throw.  Soy also needs a good cure to get a better scent throw.   You don't mention your supplier, so I have no idea the quality of their oils. 

 

Flashpoint of a FO is the temperature it will combust when it comes in direct contact with a flame and since you put it in wax, it has no bearing on the FO.  It could, however,  cause your candle to burst into flames if you use too much FO once the wick flame hits the wax.  I experimented with this using cinnamon FO over 10% and a votive just to see what would happen and the whole votive caught fire. 

 

Hopefully there is someone who uses that wax now that will jump in and  help.  Unfortunately, what works for someone else may not give you the same results and that's why testing is a never ending battle.  A new FO can and often times will cause totally different results than the next FO.  Good luck!

[moonshine]

I used that wax in the past and sorry to say I had zero luck with throw- it makes a beautiful candle but if your looking for strong throw advanced is probably not going to be the one - I didn't work with long because of this

I have had good luck with 135 but moved on to 464 and then settled on 415

10% is too much FO you can try 1.25 to 1.5 ounces of FO per pound of wax- heating to 180 or 185 adding FO right away and pour between 140 and 150 with that wax....some like 415 have to be much cooler to look pretty

I think I used LX- HTP and ECO wicks with this wax....and never got throw

[lilyfield]

So what I meant was " does the fragrance evaporate after you have added it to the wax, stirred it for a few minutes and then whilst you are waiting for it to cool down to say 130 before you POUR? So the waiting time until it drops to be poured does the fragrance evaporate? As some say POUR straight after fragrance is added to the wax. Either way I am not getting a good hot throw. I've changed to the 464 now but i still need to know the answer to that question. And also why do you pour at lower temperatures to when you add the FO in? What effect is that suppose to have on the wax? Im trying to understand the science behind it so I can actually have some success with these candles. Also do you heat the wax in a double boiler and then transfer it to a plastic container , throw the FO in, stir, and pour OR do you throw the FO in the same pot as you heated the wax in? Do you throw all FO in at the same temperature? Apparently citrus FO need to be added at lower temperatures.??? A lot of questions. Please read carefully and try to answer each one. Thanks heaps very frustrated at the moment. 

[lilyfield]

And what effect does adding too much fragrance have on the candle? Does it have any effect on hot throw, cold throw , the way it burns? OR are you just wasting fragrance and money by doing so?

[TallTayl]

Good quality fragrance will not evaporate out as you stir. Think about big manufacturers. They mix up hundreds of lbs of wax with the FO in vats and dispense from there as the wax is stirred inside the giant vat.

Generally i heat wax in a presto or water jacket melter, then dispense what i need into an aluminum pour pot with the FO, color and stir. Pouring at lower temps can help with smoothness and such. Every wax is different, so go by what the manufacturer (not reseller) recommends first.

Too much FO can: seep out of wax (fire hazard), clog wicks, cause incomplete combustion (soot), etc.

More FO does NOT automatically mean more throw.

[lilyfield]

what wax do you use?  and what temperature do you heat it to? add FO? and pour at?

[TallTayl]

C3

180 approx

180

180 (or whatever temp it is when done stirring)

I cool fast, and don't wait to pour. My process is different from most people.

[lilyfield]

how do you cool fast? and cool to what temperature?

[lilyfield]

And how long do you let them cure for before testing them?

[TallTayl]

Climate control in shop, fans, etc.

(like i wrote above i pour when i am done stirring.)

ETA since i saw you asked another question as i was replying.

I test after a couple days. If it does not throw after a couple of days, or burns oddly i don't use it in the retail line up. There are way too many fragrances to be bothered with those that are finicky.

I generally test 25 or so new scents at a time in both candles and soap. Only a couple usually make it beyond the initial test burns. It has to be something i really want to fiddle with it any more.

Edited October 15, 2015 by TallTayl

[Candybee]

Like Moonshine I have used that wax before and after a few months gave up on it. Could not get a good hot throw on any FOs except for maybe one. The wax was designed more for its physical appearance and not its throw. It makes a beautiful soy candle but you will have to work hard to find FOs that throw well in it. 99% of the oils I tried didn't throw.

 

My personal recommmendation is to switch to another wax. Ecosoya's basic container wax was the original and has good scent throw as soy goes. There are some good soy wax brands like Golden Brands.

[Guest OldGlory]

lilyfield, I don't know of a single wax that should be

'heated to 85 degrees, add FO at 75 degrees, and pour at 65 degrees'. Seems as though something is wrong with the instructions you were given. Please tell me which supplier gave you those instructions.

There are answers to nearly every question ever asked about making candles in the first 2 categories of this message board - General Candle Making and Vegetable Wax. I think if you read through both of those categories you will gain a lot of insight into making candles. This craft/hobby requires you personally to do a lot of independent testing.

Edited October 16, 2015 by OldGlory

[TallTayl]

I bet the temps are in C not F.

[lilyfield]

They are in celsius not farenheit

[Guest OldGlory]

Probably would have been a good idea to share that pertinent detail, LMBO!

So these supplies are being purchased in another country. This is where I'll bow out. Good luck!

[lmc]

I agree with Moonshine and Candybee....I started with that wax and after a case of it, I was done. I use C3 for my soy and a parasoy and I'm much happier with the results. Any wax but especially soy, has its own quirk...best to pick one and really learn how to work with it. Imo, CBA makes a pretty candle but ht is non existent.

[Trappeur]

Hello Lilyfield,

 

I agree with what everyone is telling you.  As for the cb advanced I did at one time try that wax and it does create a beautiful candle that is for sure, but I found it real finicky in trying to find good throwing fragrances to put into it.  Over the years I have read more negative comments on that wax than positive, though there are others out there that just love it.....so I don't really want to knock it....although it wasn't for me....

 

I now have settled on 464, but I have worked extensively with c3 which I also love and did master that wax...but today I use 464.

 

In reading all your posts especially the first one where you tried 30 different ways....can you explain in detail what you have done and are doing?

1.  Heat to?....in farenheit?  After you heated, what temperature did you put in your oil?

 

2.  Poured at what temp (in farenheit)....

 

3.  What percentage of oil are you using?  You still doing the 10%?....I think that could be a problem.

 

4.  Are you doing 1 pound of wax in your testings?  Also how are you weighing out the wax?  On a scale where you can tare it or a measuring cup?

 

3.  Cure time (are you still doing 3 to 4 days?)....I think that is one of your problems there....

 

4.  How are you burning?  You light the candle, then what?  How long do you burn it before extinquising it?  Then when do you relight it again?...do you do in a couple of hours or the next day?

In your testings are you burning each candle from the beginning all the way to the end meaning till you have burned the entire candle to the bottom?

 

5.  What jar are you using and what wick do you have in it?  Or are you using different type jars and different wicks?

 

6.  When you say you are doing lots of testings...just explain....

 

7.  What fragrances are you using?  From what company and what is the name of the fragrance?

 

8. Where are you doing your testings?  For example...are you doing a small candle jar maybe in the living room?   That also plays into a good throw not performing as the area could be too big an area for the fragrance to disperse in rather than a smaller like bathroom.

 

Trappeur