Who makes a true All Natural Candle?

[jackbenimble]

I have read a lot of threads about soy candles not being natural because of the process that it takes to get it to wax form. I am just wondering if anyone on the board actually makes a true All Natural candle? Soy or what have you. Thanks for responding!

[Candybee]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the only true all natural candle would be one made of all beeswax with no additives. Only wax I know of that is actually 100% 'all natural.' But then there is the processing/cleaning. It can be either factory cleaned or if you want to be a purist it can be painstakingly hand cleaned. I know some beekeepers that clean their own wax and make candles out of it. They are very nice but a lot of hard work.

Soy may be made from soybeans but there is nothing natural in the process of making it, or the machines needed to produce it, or the trucks needed to deliver from the farms to the factorys, manufacturers, to the suppliers, then to the candlemaker.

I tend to use the phrase 'inspired by nature' for nature type products that are really factory made like soy.

[rjdaines]

I've pondered this exact question, seems that if you can collect the wax in nature without having to chemically hydrogenate it, then you have a natural wax. Bee's wax and Bayberry com to mind. Too expensive for most folks and you are stuck with whatever burn characteristics are inherent in that wax, not to mention seasonal variability. If paraffin comes from oil, wasn't it at one time a "natural" product? We used to think dead dinosaurs made the oil reserves but probably something less exciting like plankton and algae. People turn of their nose's to paraffin because it is a by-product (read waste in people's minds) whereas soy is a pretty green plant. We won't go into the fact that rainforest's are cut and burned to produce acreage for soy in South America and, yes, I know that some soy waxes are all US beans. However, the global demand for soy is what drives this so buying US produced soy does not specifically alleviate this trend because we can't export soy that we domestically grow if we use it all up.

Sorry for the tangent.

If soy oil can be used in it's natural form, then you'd have a natural soy product.

[Candybee]

You're right. Paraffin is a petroleum based product. Petroleum comes from fossilized plants so you could say in that respect that its an original natural product. It is a byproduct but that means that instead of wasting materials parrafin is recycling them for use such as candles for the home among other things. For example, do you wear a bra?

[rjdaines]

For example, do you wear a bra?

Only when my wife is not looking...

[Candybee]

:laugh2:

[Stella1952]

I tend to use the phrase 'inspired by nature' for nature type products that are really factory made like soy.

I like that - it's not inaccurate nor dishonest.

I label my candles "premium vegetable wax" 'cause that's what it says on the NatureWax C3 box.

Unbleached, filtered beeswax is pretty natural, IMHO. A wick made from organically grown cotton or hemp (no wick treatment) rounds out the idea. An expeller pressed essential oil from an organically grown plant would be permissible. One could argue that an organic material used to color the beeswax would still allow one to slide in under the definition. I recently came upon this site which endeavors to define "natural" ingredients:

http://www.naturalingredient.org/naturalingredients.htm

I think they have the best definition going that I have read so far... I'd love to take their pledge to show my support for truth in advertising, but one has to make stuff with natural ingredients to qualify, and I don't make anything from natural ingredients...:undecided

[EricofAZ]

GW 402 is certified Kosher. I'm going to order some and see how it works. I don't think things have to be natural to be kosher, but they do need to be reasonably pure and it makes me wonder why no other wax was certified this way.

[Pristina]

I would have also thought that beeswax would be the most natural, however, not trying to be the devil's advocate here but someone just pointed out to me the other day that there is no such thing as "organic" beeswax or honey because you can't control where a bee has been. The plants that they pollinate could be full of pesticides and you just never know which ones they have come in contact with.

Interesting...yet frustrating.

I guess "all natural" is very hard to achieve with a candle.

I get a little irritated at the candle companies that advertise "all natural".

As a matter of fact, I saw a candle company in a corporate store not too long ago that had "all natural" written all over their candles. What a shame . The scents were clearly synthetic and the coloring was not all natural either.

I label my candles as "natural wax" candles since I use vegetable waxes. I am honest when people ask if they are ALL natural.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Pristina

[Stella1952]

I label my candles as "natural wax" candles since I use vegetable waxes

I use vegetable waxes exclusively and I would no more market them as "natural" than I would "edible."

I'm sure you want to be accurate in yur representations to your customers, but that requires doing a little homework about the realities of the waxes you use. The way the oils that comprise those waxes are extracted, then refined and the way the oils are turned into super-hydrogenated wax-like material is NOT natural. The original veggies from which the oils are chemically extracted (by use of hexane) ARE natural, but that's where the natural part ends. There is no such thing as natural vegetable wax, with the possible exception of bayberry wax. To call soy or palm wax that is made from chemically extracted oils "natural" is misleading and greenwashed marketing hype. Soy and palm OILS have to be chemically altered to become waxes. That is NOT natural. If the oils were expeller pressed or even steam-distilled, that would be one thing, but they are not. After separating the oils from the meat of the nuts, the oil is then further deororized and super-hydrogenated. Does any of that sound "natural"?

Check out this explanation of the process from Soya.be:

http://www.soya.be/soybean-oil-production.php

... or from the Soy Information Center:

http://www.soyinfocenter.com/HSS/soybean_crushing1.php

There is no need to "hype" one's products to appeal to an environmentally concerned market. Tell the simple truth and the quality of your products will stand on its own without manipulating customers into thinking they are getting something they are not.

[Pristina]

Very useful information Stella!! Thank you very much. Thankfully, I don't use the term "natural" on my actual candles, only on my website. And ah shoot! I just realized it says it on my business card too.

At least it's on items that are easily fixable and won't cause a lot of wondering why it changed like it would if it were on the candles.

Looks like I should change some wording.

It seems that all vegetable wax candle makers use the term "natural". Even one of the companies that I purchase my warning labels from have "Natural Clean Burning WAx" typed on the label and it is labeled "soy warning labels"

[Wessex]

I use "Natural" on my labels with Palm Wax. Put it there a long time ago and never really revisited the issue. I am just going to go with the looser interpretation of it being a vegetable wax, therefore from nature, therefore "natural". I did use "all natural" quite some time ago, but quickly removed it. BTW, I say the wax is "natural", not the candle. Fine line and maybe a little iffy...

At least I don't use "organic", like I see some chandlers doing on candles that are DEFINATELY not organic. Are they intentionally lying, or just ignorant? But it really pisses me off (one of the sellers on Etsy with lots of sales uses "organic" even though their candles are NOT). Of course I probably should not be throwing stones, as I use the word "Natural"...

Cheers,

Steve

BTW, can you all tell that Etsy has turned me into a very Grumpy Guss, LOL.

[Stella1952]

I hear ya, Pristina. When I first started making candles, I was misled by all the green and natural hype about soy wax, but I didn't just become environmentally concerned last year - I've been into all this for decades! I quickly learned what a load of marketing manure it was and it made me mad. Some companies of people who care about organic, natural, green, environmentally friendly, carbon neutral, etc. work darned hard to earn those descriptions. Customers who choose to buy products like that care about the products they use and how their money is spent. I respect their point of view and do not want to mislead anyone nor impinge on the earned respect that belongs to companies who go the extra mile to earn such designations and description of their products.

It seems that all vegetable wax candle makers use the term "natural".

What is this year's outrageous marketing scam becomes next year's accepted business practice. How many times do we hear (and make) the excuses... "everybody" does it; "everybody" says it. We're told "you're leaving money on the table if you don't get on the bandwagon." We regard people who cheat at a card game as thieves, but we regard businesspeople who deceive and manipulate as "savvy." Every business owner wants to encourage people to buy their offerings, but there's a line that we walk over when we allow desperation, deception and greed to dictate our ethics. The words matter because they form impressions and attitudes. When we "fudge" the truth, down the road somewhere, we find ourselves in a tangled web of lies, wondering, "how'd we get here?" One teensy white lie, deception and half-truth at a time - that's how!

I think most people are honest and do not want to mislead anyone. I'd love to see more plain-spoken truth in the vegetable wax candle making industry and less hype, but hype sells. As candle makers, the choice is ours whether we market our products to our customers deceptively and whether we buy from suppliers and manufacturers who market their ingredients and products to us in deceptive ways.

[rjdaines]

Let me think here, wax (paraffin or vegetable) is a long chained hydrocarbon molecule and therefore organic in the biochemical sense. How can one distinguish between organic (carbon-based) versus Organically grown? (Tongue in cheek). :tiptoe:

Edited May 26, 2011 by rjdaines

[Stella1952]

"Organic," in this discussion refers to organically grown.

I use "Natural" on my labels with Palm Wax. Put it there a long time ago and never really revisited the issue.

Perhaps you should.

BTW, I say the wax is "natural", not the candle. Fine line and maybe a little iffy...

Palm wax is not natural. Palm oil that is expeller pressed and not treated further IS natural. Not at all "iffy" - it crosses the line.

[jackbenimble]

No she didn't!!

Ok guys I don't want to get into a debate about natural/ paraffin waxes. I want to know if anyone here actually make a true "all natural" candle. So far it looks like the answer is no. I have though enjoyed the previous comments so thanks for responding. :-)

[beekeeper_sd]

I would have also thought that beeswax would be the most natural, however, not trying to be the devil's advocate here but someone just pointed out to me the other day that there is no such thing as "organic" beeswax or honey because you can't control where a bee has been. The plants that they pollinate could be full of pesticides and you just never know which ones they have come in contact with.

I keep hearing people say that beeswax and honey cannot be considered "organic" but, as a beekeeper I can guarantee you that, if your bees are foraging on plants full of pesticides, they're DEAD!!!

[coconut]

The Catholic Church, has for hundreds of years, only uses beeswax candles. Bayberry and beeswax would be my answer. Unscented too, as most FO's are not natural either. I don't make either one yet although a friend has promised to give me some beeswax. We haven't hooked up yet.

[Wessex]

Stella, we are just going to have to disagree on this one. I think you are being very nit-picky on the semantics. Palm, soy and paraffin waxes are all natural waxes in that they are not formulated and made in a lab. True, the method of making the final product involves alot of not so natural processes, but the wax itself is still a natural product. (e.g. - Peyote versus LSD)

As far as organic beeswax, I talked to a beekeeper last year that was in the process of being certified as organic. Can't remember all he said, but what stuck with me is that they had to have an area of 3 miles (I think that was what he said) around the apiaries that was certified as being organic (no pesticides, etc). So if you don't own a whole bunch of land and control what goes on around the apiaries, it is hard to get certified. I'm sure there is much more to it, but just going on my discussion with him.

Cheers,

Steve

[rjdaines]

Natural, to me, means it is found in nature. Palm wax and soy wax are not found in nature, the respective oils are. They are indeed made in a lab or manufacturer plant where they are refined and hydrogenated (a nickel catalyst is involved). That really doesn't smack of "natural" to me. One can claim that the starting materials are natural but the final product is a man-made material; because they are not found in nature.

[Wessex]

Natural, to me, means it is found in nature. Palm wax and soy wax are not found in nature, the respective oils are. They are indeed made in a lab or manufacturer plant where they are refined and hydrogenated (a nickel catalyst is involved). That really doesn't smack of "natural" to me. One can claim that the starting materials are natural but the final product is a man-made material; because they are not found in nature.

That is a good point, never even thought about it that way.

Steve

[LuminousBoutique]

beeswax, imo, is the only 'ALL natural' wax, organic or not :0)

[Stella1952]

I think you are being very nit-picky on the semantics. Palm, soy and paraffin waxes are all natural waxes in that they are not formulated and made in a lab.

The devil's in the details, Steve. Palm and soy waxes are MADE from OILS ("made" means they don't start out that way), which are chemically extracted, treated then refined, then have stuff added to them to make them more manageable as waxes. I don't make this stuff up - read the links supplied for yourself. Those oils have to be super-hydrogenated to be hard enough to stick a wick in, for goodness sake!! Soybean oil is liquid at room temp. Palm oil is liquid at temps a little higher than room temp. There is nothing natural about them as waxes except the soybean and palm fruit where those products originate. It's a long journey from there to the stuff that arrives at your house in the bags.

This issue isn't gray at all - it's pretty black and white. Beeswax is wax right from the hive! Bayberry wax is wax straight off the leaves of the plant. Only straining has to be done to clean up the plant residue and debris from those waxes to use them. They are natural waxes. They occur in nature in wax form. The rest are not.

[Wessex]

The devil's in the details, Steve. Palm and soy waxes are MADE from OILS ("made" means they don't start out that way), which are chemically extracted, treated then refined, then have stuff added to them to make them more manageable as waxes. I don't make this stuff up - read the links supplied for yourself. Those oils have to be super-hydrogenated to be hard enough to stick a wick in, for goodness sake!! Soybean oil is liquid at room temp. Palm oil is liquid at temps a little higher than room temp. There is nothing natural about them as waxes except the soybean and palm fruit where those products originate. It's a long journey from there to the stuff that arrives at your house in the bags.

This issue isn't gray at all - it's pretty black and white. Beeswax is wax right from the hive! Bayberry wax is wax straight off the leaves of the plant. Only straining has to be done to clean up the plant residue and debris from those waxes to use them. They are natural waxes. They occur in nature in wax form. The rest are not.

I am seeing y'alls reasoning now. I was just not thinking it through to the logical conclusion. I really hate it when logic and reality team up and kick my ass, LOL.

Thanks,

Steve

Edited May 26, 2011 by Wessex

[HorseScentS]

Stella, we are just going to have to disagree on this one. I think you are being very nit-picky on the semantics. Palm, soy and paraffin waxes are all natural waxes in that they are not formulated and made in a lab. True, the method of making the final product involves alot of not so natural processes, but the wax itself is still a natural product. (e.g. - Peyote versus LSD)

Cheers,

Steve

So, can I put "Natural Paraffin Wax" on my candles?