logcabinmomma Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Last year I was using C-3 (but changed to GW 464 around the beginning of the year this year). I go to get my extra Christmas stock out from last year (just a few odds and ends that I kept stored. Now mind you, this was stored in room temperatures with NO extremes at all, 74-78 degrees year round. My Cranberry Balsam 20 oz Tureen had MAJOR cauliflower head!!! Like, I went to press down on this enormous puff of candle wax and it fell in to itself! YIKES! I'm gonna heat gun it, but I have a feeling no amount of work will make the top pretty!!! I was glad I looked though! I'd hate to set that out and have someone open it to see what I saw!!! I thought my old C-3 stuff would be awesome because of the looongg cure time, but um... that wasn't what I was expecting to blow me away when I opened the lid! The outside is still perfect with no frosting though! So just a PSA, check last year's product THOROUGHLY before setting out!!!-Kristi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Sorry Kristi-- but Ewwww!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 They usually come out fine after the heat gun treatment and they burn fine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hopefully the customers have heat guns too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breanna Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hopefully the customers have heat guns too. :laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logcabinmomma Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 That's why I switched to 464... C-3 was a pain (for me)... 464 is so much better behaved...-Kristi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoyVey53 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 You know, as a newbie to this forum (not to candle making) and user of C3 I really appreciate those who post their experiences about the product and candlemaking in general. For those that continuously find it necessary to make fun of people and posts, you should find something better to do with your time. Remember what goes around, comes around and it will come back to slap you in the face some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Hopefully the customers have heat guns too.Was that what was meant by the "mean" comment? I think it's a really good point. I forget that soy isn't always very stable. I want to work with soy but the temps vary so dramatically in my house (too cheap to heat or AC just for candles) I think I'll forgo them for now. And my sisters are even cheaper so I KNOW they would run into problems storing the candles cause they wouldn't burn them immediately, but rather tuck them away for a "special occasion". Who knows what they would look like after a year in their houses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logcabinmomma Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 I actually didn't take it as a mean comment! C-3 can be a pain! It has weird tops and bubbles like a bowl of hot soup while it's burning... I personally didn't like the quirks of that wax (even though it threw great with the right cure time). That's why I switched. I needed something a bit more.... stable lol. I know some have no issues with it, but I did.And out of about 30 stored containers, I only had this one that mutated like that. I hadn't seen it like that before and was just floored that bloom could be that big!I haven't heat gunned it yet, but if I get any funky regrowth at all afterwards, I won't put it out. I will however figure out what I can dip with the 20 oz of wax.No, those of us who've used soy a while are pushed over the edge to borderline insanity... that's why you'll see some crazy remarks! We've been driven to the edge! -Kristi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 This comment could be taken either way, but you have to admit...she has a good point...sometimes people are just plain cruel. Karma can be a good thing, if you're good...but if you're bad, it'll bite you in the a**! But everybody can't be good or we wouldn't have things like war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Making container blends involves a lot of art and science (oleochemistry, petrochemistry). There are a lot of different materials that can come together to make a good blend. Many of the people who make products like C-3 are industry experts who could make a top quality product but they don't. Instead they make crappy blends that are sellable because of a trend and effective hype. That's why if you're dedicated enough to figure out how to make a candle that looks good and throws scent, it will turn to crap while sitting in your inventory, or during shipping, or sitting on a shelf somewhere, or in your customer's hands. Doesn't matter whether it's Cargill, EcoSoya or Golden Brands. It's all the same type of junk.I hope that's clear enough this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 That's why I switched to 464... C-3 was a pain (for me)... 464 is so much better behaved...-KristiYes, I wish we could convince Gen Wax to carry all the GB waxes...but right now with shipping, even from Peaks it's expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Many of the people who make products like C-3 are industry experts who could make a top quality product but they don't. Instead they make crappy blends that are sellable because of a trend and effective hype. That's why if you're dedicated enough to figure out how to make a candle that looks good and throws scent, it will turn to crap while sitting in your inventory, or during shipping, or sitting on a shelf somewhere, or in your customer's hands. Doesn't matter whether it's Cargill, EcoSoya or Golden Brands. It's all the same type of junk.Jeeze, Top, don't hold back... :rolleyes2Does this mean that your adventures with soy wax are not going well? Palm wax should REALLY put ya in orbit!While I share the frustrations of soy candlemakers everywhere, I kinda LIKE the challenge of working with a more primative material and discovering how to tame it a little... I hope that's clear enough this time....I think I may have retinal burns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logcabinmomma Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 It's all the same type of junk.I hope that's clear enough this time.But tell me how you REALLY feel!!! :smiley2: -Kristi - who loves to read the chemistry posts and hopes to eventually test her own blends, but for now will stick with the preblended waxes of the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I'm not saying anything extreme. I'm just saying the emperor has no clothes. It's pretty obvious once you free your mind, yet you're oohing and aahing over his new suit as he parades naked in front of you.I'm doing fine with soy wax and I have nothing against triglycerides in candles. It's not a new thing. It's just that these blends you're using are formulated according to a certain philosophy that produces an inferior wax. That philosophy is very sellable because it lends itself to eco-babble, and it's very desirable for the benefit of certain industries that have been willing to put money and PR behind it.So no, I don't use those kinds of blends because they don't make a product at the level of quality and stability I'm interested in. The all-veggie soy waxes aren't primitive; they're just crappy. What you call taming, I would characterize as investing more resources to make a worse product. You won't change the nature of the beast. Since you think you want it, you're stuck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyCat Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 so what you're basically saying is that anyone who makes soy container candles using soy container blends, whether its from ecosoya, cargill or whoever - that their candles are inferior or, without mincing words, just shit compared to yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Nattycat, ya made me spew my coffee!!Top, I do not disagree with you at all. While the first researchers into vegetable waxes may have been starry eyed idealists concerned about sustainability, etc., they are NOT who is running the veggie wax show.The all-veggie soy waxes aren't primitive; they're just crappy. What you call taming, I would characterize as investing more resources to make a worse product. You won't change the nature of the beast. Since you think you want it, you're stuck with it.If I thought tweaking the formulas with other products was going to produce a WORSE product than the imperfect one with which I began, I wouldn't do it. While the additives, etc. do not make a perfect product nor do they correct the origins of the difficulties, they can IMPROVE the end product somewhat. While I may agree on some points with you and feel very sure that the wax companies are selling customers a truckload of manure along with their half-asped products, I LIKE the idea of veggie waxes and hope that the research and development of veggie oils for candle wax will continue. Sooner or later, someone who STICKS with the basic concept WILL make a better mousetrap and HOPEFULLY will not have to sell out to a big corporation to manufacture and distribute a crappy version of their product just because they can. The good guys will prevail eventually, especially if they can manage to stay far, far away from mega-corps and their marketing BS.I don't THINK I want veggie waxes, I KNOW that I do. And as long as I use them, I WILL continue to take the big companies to task for their marketing hype, secrecy, evasions and manipulations. I don't have to buy into the hype and crap along with the product. As I recall, the history of chandlery is one of secret formulas and utilization of additives and materials that improve upon the basic stuff in some way. I see absolutely nothing wrong with being a part of that continuing tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgirl Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 OMG- Natty... Your a trip!!Top- If you haven't come up with a company name.. I thought of this...Tops Superior Non-Soy Candles?? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyCat Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Nattycat, ya made me spew my coffee!!Top, I do not disagree with you at all. While the first researchers into vegetable waxes may have been starry eyed idealists concerned about sustainability, etc., they are NOT who is running the veggie wax show.If I thought tweaking the formulas with other products was going to produce a WORSE product than the imperfect one with which I began, I wouldn't do it. While the additives, etc. do not make a perfect product nor do they correct the origins of the difficulties, they can IMPROVE the end product somewhat. While I may agree on some points with you and feel very sure that the wax companies are selling customers a truckload of manure along with their half-asped products, I LIKE the idea of veggie waxes and hope that the research and development of veggie oils for candle wax will continue. Sooner or later, someone who STICKS with the basic concept WILL make a better mousetrap and HOPEFULLY will not have to sell out to a big corporation to manufacture and distribute a crappy version of their product just because they can. The good guys will prevail eventually, especially if they can manage to stay far, far away from mega-corps and their marketing BS.I don't THINK I want veggie waxes, I KNOW that I do. And as long as I use them, I WILL continue to take the big companies to task for their marketing hype, secrecy, evasions and manipulations. I don't have to buy into the hype and crap along with the product. As I recall, the history of chandlery is one of secret formulas and utilization of additives and materials that improve upon the basic stuff in some way. I see absolutely nothing wrong with being a part of that continuing tradition. well done for your pro-active approach. So which of the manufacturers have you taken to task so far and what was their response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 so what you're basically saying is that anyone who makes soy container candles using soy container blends, whether its from ecosoya, cargill or whoever - that their candles are inferior or, without mincing words, just shit compared to yours?I'm not comparing anyone's candles. A blend that produces a candle that's prone to deteriorate or even be rendered useless in a matter of weeks or months is an inferior wax. You can make as great a candle as you like with it, but it won't stay that way. That's the key problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 well done for your pro-active approach. So which of the manufacturers have you taken to task so far and what was their response? The one whose products I use! Perhaps you missed the discussion...http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59783&highlight=C3+100%25... and their replies...I also frequently mention the entire soy wax industry for all the "all-natural" hype they lay on naive people who have been told they are using "100% soy" products and helping poor US soybean farmers... and believe it! :rolleyes2 Since WHEN has SOY become such a hallowed substance? Time for people to do more reading - CURRENT reading - about soy and health and economics... I don't find raising concerns to manufacturers or suppliers to be very effective. My approach is to discuss issues with their CUSTOMERS - candle makers - to encourage ALL of us to think more critically and understand the difference between truth and marketing and how to recognize evasions, half-truths and country-fried bullsh*t when we encounter them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Yes Stella, there are always future inventions to look forward to, but we don't really know that the market trends towards all-vegetable and all-soy will continue (or what part of the market is really obessed with that -- maybe mostly hobbyists and small producers?). The industry may not feel such a need for new inventions along those lines just as the patents for transparent candles are no longer proliferating. There are plenty of present inventions that are predominantly triglycerides. Those seem to work better and come more easily.To the extent the obsession continues, it will probably continue to be driven by big companies and they will probably own anything of value. Soy has a cost advantage, but it's basically a crummy semi-edible legume that's not good for much without extensive processing. It's the big companies and their factories that are ideally suited to extracting profit from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyCat Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 could your statement sweep any wider? You're saying every candle ever made with container blended soy wax will, sooner or later, look like regugitated marshmallow?of course, a soy candle COULD deform over time (which is what this post is about) Not ALL of them do. I'm pretty certain not every candle ever made with a container soy blend is "rendered useless" in a matter of weeks or months. Personally I've had ecoysoya candles sitting here since February 2006 and they look the same as they did when I poured them. Perhaps I've just been lucky? I accept fully YOUR choice not to use any soy blend, as they obviously don't work for you. But I really don't feel you need to come here telling people their candles are inferior because of the wax they choose to use. If you can't be arsed to take the time and effort to create a good soy candle because you don't think the results are worth it - then that's OK and entirely your perogative. But if someone else thinks the extra effort IS worth it, and are proud of their candles, then who are you to say their candles are "a worse product"?And yes, you ARE comparing candles. To state that something is inferior means you must have seen or used something that you believe is superior - and that is a comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Natty, extrapolating or interpreting what I say is beside the point. The facts of the matter are still the same. These manufacturers don't have a single all-vegetable blend that can be used out of the box to produce a stable product.If an investor gave you a million dollars to set up manufacturing, operations, marketing and distribution for a luxury candle brand, one of the more foolish things you could do with his or her money would be to base the product on one of these waxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgirl Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 If an investor gave you a million dollars to set up manufacturing, operations, marketing and distribution for a luxury candle brand, one of the more foolish things you could do with his or her money would be to base the product on one of these waxes.Now Top, aka (Soy Nazi) LOL.. I must disagree - SOY would be my choice for a luxury Candle Line and my choice would not be foolish!! Soy can be a PITA to work with, as with any wax , but it does make a heck of a candle once you get your formulas down. I have candles that are over a year old that look and perform as well as candles I made 3 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.