To trim or not to trim?

[anncal]

It's me again, Margaret.  Working my way through unending testing.  I've found a wax/wick combination that, when trimmed, performs as I'd like.  Untrimmed, too big a flame, lots of sooting/dancing.  Should I consider downsizing the wick assuming that most customers will not actually trim their wicks properly?  Or do they?  I'm worlds away from selling anything, but I want to get this right.

[ErronB]

Realistically, you should assume that nobody is going to trim the wick.

 

Does that mean your candle that has to be trimmed is a bad candle? Not at all, if it can survive burns for hours without turning the container into volcanic temps and black smoking then there's nothing wrong with it. A lot of people stop right there and that's good enough for them, but if you're really OCD and shooting for a straight clean burn untrimmed and nothing else will do then there suddenly becomes a lot more gremlins thrown into the mix. Wicking down is a good first step, but there are many other things that come along with going down the untrimmed rabbit hole, and because everyone's opinion differs as to what the best end result is, there is no straight answer to just give you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BusyBee]

13 hours ago, anncal said:

It's me again, Margaret.  Working my way through unending testing.  I've found a wax/wick combination that, when trimmed, performs as I'd like.  Untrimmed, too big a flame, lots of sooting/dancing.  Should I consider downsizing the wick assuming that most customers will not actually trim their wicks properly?  Or do they?  I'm worlds away from selling anything, but I want to get this right.

I call this "Fighting with 1mm!".  I will explain what this means later on at below.

 

My candles is not a good candle if it is not trimmed right either.  But then whose candle does not need to be trimmed?

 

There are many who would not trim the wick, but then there are also many who will trim their wick properly.  So, what can we do as a candle maker and who should we we target when we design our candles?  I find that the people who does trim the wick are more heavy candle users, and they are the ones who are willing to spend more money for top quality candles.  So, who would you target when designing your candle?

 

When I do power burn test, my candles' wicks are self-trimming all the time.  But then, why does my candle need to be trimmed when it is self-trimming? It's because of 1mm wax shrinkage!

When wax is melted, it will expand (Sometimes this can lead to wick drowning.).  When melted wax cools, then it will shrink.  So, when melt pool cools, it will shrink down and leave taller wick (about 1mm which will build up and gets longer each time candle was burned) than while it was burning.  I have tried to fix this problem by try to minimize depth of melt pool below 1/8" so the shrinkage of melt pool would be minimal.  But then, this was not possible.  And also, I have searched for wax that won't shrink at all, and I find that there is no such wax.  Or is there?  Or which wax will shrink less?

 

I guess the choice is yours!  Just make sure your candle would not become dangerously too hot when it is not trimmed.  Good Luck!

[SRez]

6 hours ago, ErronB said:

 

 but if you're really OCD and shooting for a straight clean burn untrimmed and nothing else will do then there suddenly becomes a lot more gremlins thrown into the mix. 

 

This is where I'm at now.  It's almost becoming (if not already) an unhealthy obsession.  Just when I think I got it and I'm there, another wrench gets thrown into the mix.  

[bfroberts]

I have struggled with this.  For a long time, I used wicks that burned well but didn't self trim, and I never viewed it as a problem since many commercial brands require trimming.  One day my daughter, a chronic candle abuser, gave me jars from her spent candles and it was an eye opener.  Lots of wick debris and soot, things I'd never seen in my candles when *I* burned them.  So I went hunting for better wicks, and after a lot of testing I finally found wicks that self-trim at an acceptable level in my wax.  I test every candle without trimming to make sure it is 100% safe and performs in a way I can live with under all conditions.

I guess the point is, if it's safe without trimming, that's the main thing.  As for aesthetics, that's a secondary concern.  If it isn't safe unless the conditions are optimal, I'd be concerned.  Some things that may help:  wicking down, lowering your FO %, curing longer, a different wick series, etc.

[TallTayl]

My family has been at my side for a decade helping at our in person events.  They have said thousands of times... “trim your wick before lighting.” Do they? My daughter, yes. Dearest hubs, never. Light and go. I won’t put candles made by others  anywhere they may be lit “improperly” and become troublesome.
 

if you HAVE to trim at the top or middle of the candle for a safe burn, the second half of the candle will likely be not a candle I would want out in the wild.

 

If the second half of the candle is within temp tolerance, and just throws a little soot if left untrimmed on a powerburn I could live with that. 

 

Keep your IR thermometer handy as you test burn, powerburn, etc. you will know by the 175*F or less on the hottest part of the glass if you are safely within the ASTM industry standards.  If there is no margin for error at any point in the burn it is a good time to seek out another wick size and/or series.

 

Also, test burn your candles with different room temps in different seasons. I learned the hard way that soft waxes like IGI 4627, IGI 4630 and IGI 6570 (coco wax blend) burn several wick sizes different in a chicago winter home heated to 68*F versus a Los Angeles winter home at 75*F.  

[Laura C]

8 hours ago, SRez said:

This is where I'm at now.  It's almost becoming (if not already) an unhealthy obsession.  Just when I think I got it and I'm there, another wrench gets thrown into the mix.  

 

In my opinion, if you're not OCD before you become a candlemaker then you will quickly become OCD. LOL

[TallTayl]

My motto is there is no “perfect”, only a range of acceptable. 

[SRez]

2 hours ago, Laura C said:

 

In my opinion, if you're not OCD before you become a candlemaker then you will quickly become OCD. LOL

Ha! I can see that happening. 😀

[SRez]

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

My motto is there is no “perfect”, only a range of acceptable. 

And I guess that's not a bad place to be at the end of the day. 😁

[ErronB]

14 hours ago, SRez said:

This is where I'm at now.  It's almost becoming (if not already) an unhealthy obsession.  Just when I think I got it and I'm there, another wrench gets thrown into the mix.  

 

It can get really depressing because there is never going to be an end to it. The consistency of both wicks and wax these days is so terrible that if you did find the unicorn combination for that specific candle then the chances are slim it would work with the next lot of wax you get. Then back to square one! I just do the best I can with whatever I've got at the time and don't obsess over it too much otherwise I'd never get anything done.

[ErronB]

This was me for over a year, every night, until I finally realized there was nothing that could be done consistently without trimming.

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by ErronB

[Laura C]

That's funny @ErronB. When I started making candles my husband got tired of hearing me talk about it and he didn't fully understand the issues I faced. He was like, just make the candles and be done with it, you've already tested a few candles so you should be good. And my response was, LOL, yea right.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Laura C

[Crafty1_AJ]

You can't foresee every possible way people will burn candles, so do your best to produce a good candle that burns well under normal circumstances, and appreciate the fact that people who burn candles make their own choices, good or bad!  You can't control that.  So don't stress out over that.    Hang in there!

[ErronB]

3 hours ago, Laura C said:

That's funny @ErronB. When I started making candles my husband got tired of hearing me talk about it and he didn't fully understand the issues I faced. He was like, just make the candles and be done with it, you've already tested a few candles so you should be good. And my response was, LOL, yea right.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like that in the past, or how I'm overthinking everything and wasting time and money on supplies. My wife think I'm a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but in reality I'm retaining valuable information lol.

[TallTayl]

39 minutes ago, ErronB said:

 

I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like that in the past, or how I'm overthinking everything and wasting time and money on supplies. My wife think I'm a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but in reality I'm retaining valuable information lol.

It is the difference between a chandler and someone who makes candles. 

[Laura C]

21 hours ago, TallTayl said:

It is the difference between a chandler and someone who makes candles. 

 

Exactly, well said. 😉 I tell people anybody can make a candle but it takes patience and experience to make a safe, high quality candle. 🕯️

[SRez]

This message popped up on one of my apps today. Seems somewhat apropos to this discussion. 

"The secret of success is the consistency of purpose."