What am I getting wrong?

[jsull918]

GB 464

heated 1 lb wax to 180, took off heat, poured 6% FO, stirred, dropped a few brown dye drops, stirred. Cooled to 135, poured. 

I poured into a 9 oz glass jar with eco 14 wick. i also poured into a 16oz tin container with a eco 14 wick. cut wick and put on lids 24 hrs later. Waited a week, minimal frosting.

Lit 9oz and smelled great, in room size as big as a garage, and it burned evenly. 2 days later, lit the 16 oz tin. no HT, and tunneling. 

 

another issue-

Also read on website where I purchase supplies, that their  coconut oil, 1/2 tsp- 1/2 tbs would help scent throw with soy wax, and mixing in beeswax would help it have a smooth finish.

1.80 lb GB 464, and 0.20 lb beeswax, and put in 1 tsp of coconut oil. same  method used above except 12% FO. It made one 16 oz tin, two 9 oz jars, 2 wax tart containers, and one 4 oz tin. the 16 oz, and 4 oz tins are smooth as can be on top (cant see sides bc they're tins) the two 9 oz glass jars, however, are frosted all the way around, one has a crack in the wax across the top, and the other one also frosted all the way around, and a cracked in a circle shape around the wick and looks as if it sank some. It's a darker purple in the cracks of the circle. I just made those on Thursday (it's now Saturday night) and i still haven't cut the wicks and put lids on yet.

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Hometown Handmades

[TallTayl]

Hi and welcome.

 

Sounds like you have wicking issues on your original candles.

 

additives: Anything you add to a prepared wax like 464 is likely going to cause some anomalies. They use various additives that don’t always chemically work with additives.
 

adding coconut oil may lead to seepage. Soy wax can only reasonably hold so much oil. It can also lead to strange mushy melting during a burn where the candle goes from what appears solid to mushy and then liquid very quickly. 
 

The cracking is normal  when beeswax is  introduced to many prepared soy wax blends. Just too many conflicting hardeners in there. 
 

. The eco 14 in a 9 ounce jar seems a bit large. It would explain early strong hot throw. Watch as it continues to burn especially when it gets to the middle and beyond. That size wick is likely to make things pretty toasty. 
 

Tins are wider than they are tall so you don’t get the same air convection. it seems like there’s not as much throw at the top, and then it gets too hot at the last third.  Tunneling would indicate that the wick maybe too small but it’s impossible to see or understand without pictures. Many people use the term tunneling to mean there’s a bit of early hang up-which is desirable for safety. Tunneling is a phenomenon where measurable outer edges of wax NEVER melt and catch up and wicks drown. 
 

pictures will be helpful. If you have an infrared thermometer it is also helpful to measure the temp of your container as it burns to ensure no part of the container exceed 170*F at any time during a burn. Typically the hottest part will be the top on the side where the wick curls. There can be a 50-100 degree difference from the opposite side. 

[StanfordP]

Agree with @TallTayl on all points.

 

22 hours ago, Hometown Handmades said:

GB 464

heated 1 lb wax to 180, took off heat, poured 6% FO, stirred, dropped a few brown dye drops, stirred. Cooled to 135, poured. 

I poured into a 9 oz glass jar with eco 14 wick. i also poured into a 16oz tin container with a eco 14 wick. cut wick and put on lids 24 hrs later. Waited a week, minimal frosting.

Lit 9oz and smelled great, in room size as big as a garage, and it burned evenly. 2 days later, lit the 16 oz tin. no HT, and tunneling. 

 

another issue-

Also read on website where I purchase supplies, that their  coconut oil, 1/2 tsp- 1/2 tbs would help scent throw with soy wax, and mixing in beeswax would help it have a smooth finish.

 

1. ECO14 is way small for use in 16oz tin (I'd consider wicking down even more and double wicking it). And too big for 9oz. Most suppliers have wick sample packs--cannot under estimate the value of those.

 

2. 464 is a great introductory wax because you don't really need to mess with it to get good results... But, start messing with it, and you'll realize its harder to work with. I'd focus less on creating your own wax blend right now, and more on finding a blend that works for you. Much cheaper in the long run. And if you want stronger throws, consider adding in some vybar. 

 

Once you start understanding the pros and cons of each wax, and how they work together, then you can start experimenting with your own blend. Took me years to craft up my blend, and it's always a work in progress.

 

3. Coconut oil in candles--not a fan. It doesn't have the same results as coconut wax. It's cheaper, yes. But, I'm not sure it's having the effect you're looking for.

 

4. Experiment with your temperatures. Mixing fragrance AT 180 requires heating wax more, but helps bind the molecules together. For 464, as long as you keep the temp below 200, you should be fine. I've also been adding my wax to the fragrance oil (not the other way around)... does it help? Time will tell...

 

Moral of the story: test, test ,test... Then test some more!

 

[jsull918]

18 hours ago, StanfordP said:

Agree with @TallTayl on all points.

 

 

1. ECO14 is way small for use in 16oz tin (I'd consider wicking down even more and double wicking it). And too big for 9oz. Most suppliers have wick sample packs--cannot under estimate the value of those.

 

2. 464 is a great introductory wax because you don't really need to mess with it to get good results... But, start messing with it, and you'll realize its harder to work with. I'd focus less on creating your own wax blend right now, and more on finding a blend that works for you. Much cheaper in the long run. And if you want stronger throws, consider adding in some vybar. 

 

Once you start understanding the pros and cons of each wax, and how they work together, then you can start experimenting with your own blend. Took me years to craft up my blend, and it's always a work in progress.

 

3. Coconut oil in candles--not a fan. It doesn't have the same results as coconut wax. It's cheaper, yes. But, I'm not sure it's having the effect you're looking for.

 

4. Experiment with your temperatures. Mixing fragrance AT 180 requires heating wax more, but helps bind the molecules together. For 464, as long as you keep the temp below 200, you should be fine. I've also been adding my wax to the fragrance oil (not the other way around)... does it help? Time will tell...

 

Moral of the story: test, test ,test... Then test some more!

 

Wicking down, like, a smaller size or cutting it shorter? Still learning lingo lol. What do you suggest for 9 & 16 oz jars/tins? Do certain wicks work better in jars & tins? 

Is coconut wax better than soy wax or is it good to blend those together, if so what %'s ? I don't have a ton of money to blow and keep messing it up.

We're doing what is suggested on the sites where we get our supplies. Also if there are other sites to recommend I'd appreciate it!!

[jsull918]

20 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Hi and welcome.

 

Sounds like you have wicking issues on your original candles.

 

additives: Anything you add to a prepared wax like 464 is likely going to cause some anomalies. They use various additives that don’t always chemically work with additives.
 

adding coconut oil may lead to seepage. Soy wax can only reasonably hold so much oil. It can also lead to strange mushy melting during a burn where the candle goes from what appears solid to mushy and then liquid very quickly. 
 

The cracking is normal  when beeswax is  introduced to many prepared soy wax blends. Just too many conflicting hardeners in there. 
 

. The eco 14 in a 9 ounce jar seems a bit large. It would explain early strong hot throw. Watch as it continues to burn especially when it gets to the middle and beyond. That size wick is likely to make things pretty toasty. 
 

Tins are wider than they are tall so you don’t get the same air convection. it seems like there’s not as much throw at the top, and then it gets too hot at the last third.  Tunneling would indicate that the wick maybe too small but it’s impossible to see or understand without pictures. Many people use the term tunneling to mean there’s a bit of early hang up-which is desirable for safety. Tunneling is a phenomenon where measurable outer edges of wax NEVER melt and catch up and wicks drown. 
 

pictures will be helpful. If you have an infrared thermometer it is also helpful to measure the temp of your container as it burns to ensure no part of the container exceed 170*F at any time during a burn. Typically the hottest part will be the top on the side where the wick curls. There can be a 50-100 degree difference from the opposite side. 

Here’s my pics. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I’d prefer to keep everything natural as far as wax. 

[jsull918]

Also, the site I ordered from if using soy wax go up a wick size.

 

[BusyBee]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:09 PM, Hometown Handmades said:

GB 464

heated 1 lb wax to 180, took off heat, poured 6% FO, stirred, dropped a few brown dye drops, stirred. Cooled to 135, poured. 

I poured into a 9 oz glass jar with eco 14 wick. i also poured into a 16oz tin container with a eco 14 wick. cut wick and put on lids 24 hrs later. Waited a week, minimal frosting.

Lit 9oz and smelled great, in room size as big as a garage, and it burned evenly. 2 days later, lit the 16 oz tin. no HT, and tunneling. 

 

another issue-

Also read on website where I purchase supplies, that their  coconut oil, 1/2 tsp- 1/2 tbs would help scent throw with soy wax, and mixing in beeswax would help it have a smooth finish.

1.80 lb GB 464, and 0.20 lb beeswax, and put in 1 tsp of coconut oil. same  method used above except 12% FO. It made one 16 oz tin, two 9 oz jars, 2 wax tart containers, and one 4 oz tin. the 16 oz, and 4 oz tins are smooth as can be on top (cant see sides bc they're tins) the two 9 oz glass jars, however, are frosted all the way around, one has a crack in the wax across the top, and the other one also frosted all the way around, and a cracked in a circle shape around the wick and looks as if it sank some. It's a darker purple in the cracks of the circle. I just made those on Thursday (it's now Saturday night) and i still haven't cut the wicks and put lids on yet.

 

 

 

I use GB 464.

I heat the wax up to 180F, add 12% FO, stir really well, pour at around 135(130 - 140F).

 

Is your 9 oz container about 3 inch in diameter?  If it is, then ECO 10 or 12 should be about the right size.  For 16 oz tin, that's TOTALLY different  territory.  No standard wick will perform well in 16 oz tin, but there is a way(see pictures).  *Even though most supplier claims 16 oz tin, it's actually 14 oz tin.

 

GB 464 will frost really bad, and there is no way to prevent it.  That's why a lot of chandlers gave up dying it including myself.

 

GB 464 is really good wax by itself.  I am suspecting it's the beeswax you have added that is the cause of bad cracking.  Try without coconut oil & beeswax.  *If you are still going to dye your candle, then add dye while wax is heating up.

 

Yes.  Soy wax needs a lot bigger wick than other waxes.

 

 

 

[StanfordP]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:30 PM, Hometown Handmades said:

Wicking down, like, a smaller size or cutting it shorter? Still learning lingo lol. What do you suggest for 9 & 16 oz jars/tins? Do certain wicks work better in jars & tins? 

Is coconut wax better than soy wax or is it good to blend those together, if so what %'s ? I don't have a ton of money to blow and keep messing it up.

We're doing what is suggested on the sites where we get our supplies. Also if there are other sites to recommend I'd appreciate it!!

lol, all good. Wick down means smaller diameter wick. I could tell you what I use, but it too may not work for you. Get the wick sample pack. Test with wax only (no dye, no fragrance). When you find a wick that works retest with dye only, then again with fragrance. Test all variables. Once you understand how your variables affect your candles, you develop a sense for how to manipulate them to your benefit. 
 

based on your pics, looks like you have too much beeswax (which isn’t needed for learning purposes).

 

for your wax, start out with 464 only. Once you’ve mastered it, then get crafty. 
 

As to your other questions, literally all variables (including outside humidity and temp) affect your candles. Despite popular opinion, candling is NOT cheap. It’s takes hundreds of hours testing and maybe thousands of dollars to get to the perfect candle. 
 

keep at it. It’s frustrating, but fun too when you get results!

[jsull918]

8 hours ago, BusyBee said:

I use GB 464.

I heat the wax up to 180F, add 12% FO, stir really well, pour at around 135(130 - 140F).

 

Is your 9 oz container about 3 inch in diameter?  If it is, then ECO 10 or 12 should be about the right size.  For 16 oz tin, that's TOTALLY different  territory.  No standard wick will perform well in 16 oz tin, but there is a way(see pictures).  *Even though most supplier claims 16 oz tin, it's actually 14 oz tin.

 

GB 464 will frost really bad, and there is no way to prevent it.  That's why a lot of chandlers gave up dying it including myself.

 

GB 464 is really good wax by itself.  I am suspecting it's the beeswax you have added that is the cause of bad cracking.  Try without coconut oil & beeswax.  *If you are still going to dye your candle, then add dye while wax is heating up.

 

Yes.  Soy wax needs a lot bigger wick than other waxes.

 

 

 

So you do 12% per lb of soy? Those pictures are interesting! I recently viewed candlescience's wick chart, i put i use 464, and diameter of the 9 oz jar and it suggested CD 10 wicks, with ECO 10 being the runner up. So I'm just curious what the difference would be for CD and ECO. on the 16 oz, it recommended CD 22.  I Just ordered those, and will try them next. The candles I made yesterday, I used RRD 37 for 9 oz diameter 2 3/4 "

[jsull918]

6 hours ago, StanfordP said:

lol, all good. Wick down means smaller diameter wick. I could tell you what I use, but it too may not work for you. Get the wick sample pack. Test with wax only (no dye, no fragrance). When you find a wick that works retest with dye only, then again with fragrance. Test all variables. Once you understand how your variables affect your candles, you develop a sense for how to manipulate them to your benefit. 
 

based on your pics, looks like you have too much beeswax (which isn’t needed for learning purposes).

 

for your wax, start out with 464 only. Once you’ve mastered it, then get crafty. 
 

As to your other questions, literally all variables (including outside humidity and temp) affect your candles. Despite popular opinion, candling is NOT cheap. It’s takes hundreds of hours testing and maybe thousands of dollars to get to the perfect candle. 
 

keep at it. It’s frustrating, but fun too when you get results!

I will test without fragrance or dye next go around, but before this reply these are my candles I made yesterday. Just wax, fo, and a few dye drops. No beeswax, or coconut oil. They turned out pretty well on looks, will wait a couple weeks to light to see about the scent/ wick. However just one of the green ones ended up with a hole in it...not sure why? Can you advise me on that? 

[BusyBee]

8 hours ago, Hometown Handmades said:

So you do 12% per lb of soy? Those pictures are interesting! I recently viewed candlescience's wick chart, i put i use 464, and diameter of the 9 oz jar and it suggested CD 10 wicks, with ECO 10 being the runner up. So I'm just curious what the difference would be for CD and ECO. on the 16 oz, it recommended CD 22.  I Just ordered those, and will try them next. The candles I made yesterday, I used RRD 37 for 9 oz diameter 2 3/4 "

Yes.  I do use 12% FO.  They used say that 12% max FO & heat it to 185F some years ago.  Now days, a lot of suppliers recommending 10% max & heat it to 150-160F.

 

For your 9 oz diameter 2 3/4 container size, ECO 8 or 10 should be about right.  I haven't tried CD in other than 16 oz tin.  CD 22 for 16 oz tin would be kind of small.

[BusyBee]

8 hours ago, Hometown Handmades said:

I will test without fragrance or dye next go around, but before this reply these are my candles I made yesterday. Just wax, fo, and a few dye drops. No beeswax, or coconut oil. They turned out pretty well on looks, will wait a couple weeks to light to see about the scent/ wick. However just one of the green ones ended up with a hole in it...not sure why? Can you advise me on that? 

Is the candle in the last picture GB 464?  It doesn't look like GB 464 to me.  

[jsull918]

47 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

Is the candle in the last picture GB 464?  It doesn't look like GB 464 to me.  

Yep plain 464 , fo, and dye. Nothing else. 

[BusyBee]

This is what had happened when I heat the wax to 200F.  Similar(but less) would happen if I heat GB 464 to around 190F, too.

 

This happened when I didn't stir well.

 

My suspicion is that you might have over heat the wax little bit on that one???

I never get any sink holes now days.  I think the key is to keep the heating temperature below 185F.  I try to heat it up to 180F so I have some margin of error room to work with.  You are trying to heat the wax to 180F.  So, I think you are on the right path.  

 

[CandleRush]

Hi! Are those two wicks together a new thing! Never have seen this before.

[jsull918]

7 hours ago, BusyBee said:

This is what had happened when I heat the wax to 200F.  Similar(but less) would happen if I heat GB 464 to around 190F, too.

 

This happened when I didn't stir well.

 

My suspicion is that you might have over heat the wax little bit on that one???

I never get any sink holes now days.  I think the key is to keep the heating temperature below 185F.  I try to heat it up to 180F so I have some margin of error room to work with.  You are trying to heat the wax to 180F.  So, I think you are on the right path.  

 

Thanks for the examples, but out of all those candles it made, just that one had that visible sink hole. Also, your 2 wick, are you using the the original wick that is supposed to go with that diameter of container or 2 smaller ones to put together? 

[BusyBee]

First I tried to double wick GB 464 because none of the single wick was big enough for 16 oz tin.  None of these double wick worked either.

 

But, then I found 2 wicks put together did the magic.  I use 2 ECO 10 put together for 16 oz tin.  Should this considered as ECO 20?  I don't know.  

 

This picture is ECO 10 & ECO 8 put together for smaller diameter than tin.  It does not get hot.

 

Only thing I can say is that you will have to be creative with GB 464 for container bigger than 3 1/4 diameter.  Have fun your venture!

[BusyBee]

7 hours ago, CandleRush said:

Hi! Are those two wicks together a new thing! Never have seen this before.

I guess this is double wicking.  I just didn't give any space between 2 wicks.😊

[StanfordP]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:18 PM, Hometown Handmades said:

 

Sink holes are caused by the wax on top cooling faster than the wax below. When wax cools, it contracts, so the wax underneath the surface is contracting (cooling) after the wax on the surface. I'd consider preheating your wick setter. When you place a cold metal wick setter on a hot candle, the first thing it does is draws the heat off the surface (which then makes the surface cool faster). Even better solution: Don't use metal.

 

[birdcharm]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:22 PM, BusyBee said:

But, then I found 2 wicks put together did the magic.  I use 2 ECO 10 put together for 16 oz tin.  Should this considered as ECO 20?  I don't know.  

 

This picture is ECO 10 & ECO 8 put together for smaller diameter than tin.  It does not get hot.

 

 

I'd just like to ask how your close-together double wick is tabbed ... I can't quite make it out from the photo ... are both wicks sleeved somehow?

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by birdcharm

[birdcharm]

On 5/10/2020 at 9:47 PM, StanfordP said:

.... 464 is a great introductory wax because you don't really need to mess with it to get good results... But, start messing with it, and you'll realize its harder to work with. I'd focus less on creating your own wax blend right now, and more on finding a blend that works for you. Much cheaper in the long run. And if you want stronger throws, consider adding in some vybar ...

 

 

 

This would be the vybar for containers (I think it's called 260), I've never tried it, mostly because I've never been able to fully determine if vybar works with soy wax.  Does it really?  I know it takes away from the "natural" aspect, but if it really does help, that's interesting.

[BusyBee]

1 hour ago, birdcharm said:

 

I'd just like to ask how your close-together double wick is tabbed ... I can't quite make it out from the photo ... are both wicks sleeved somehow?

 

 

 

One of them is not sleeved.  I use thin metal wire to tie them together.  Little metal ring found at the jewelry hobby shop will do the job also.

I asked few wick assembling companies to do this for me, but they won't able to do this.

[BusyBee]

1 hour ago, birdcharm said:

 

This would be the vybar for containers (I think it's called 260), I've never tried it, mostly because I've never been able to fully determine if vybar works with soy wax.  Does it really?  I know it takes away from the "natural" aspect, but if it really does help, that's interesting.

I tried adding vybar 260 to GW 464, but I did not find any benefit of adding it to GW 464.  

*But, there is a slight chance that I did not know exactly what I was doing or looking for when I did this when I was a beginner.

[birdcharm]

1 hour ago, BusyBee said:

I tried adding vybar 260 to GW 464, but I did not find any benefit of adding it to GW 464.  

*But, there is a slight chance that I did not know exactly what I was doing or looking for when I did this when I was a beginner.

 

Thanks for your feedback on that, I've wondered about it, but never tried it.

[birdcharm]

1 hour ago, BusyBee said:

One of them is not sleeved.  I use thin metal wire to tie them together.  Little metal ring found at the jewelry hobby shop will do the job also.

I asked few wick assembling companies to do this for me, but they won't able to do this.

 

Here's my thought on this ... I think it would be better to use individual tabs so each wick has its own sleeve ... having to do with the crimping of the metal sleeve onto the wick.  It's a safety feature really.

Edited May 27, 2020 by birdcharm