sarahmarah Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Last night I made a small (14oz mold) batch of 100% coconut oil soap with a 30% SF. All of my liquid was coconut milk. I split the milk and used half of it in frozen cubes for my lye and the other half in liquid at trace. I strained my 1:1 lye solution in my melted oil and fragrance. It took longer than I thought to strain the lye solution but it seemed to emulsify without issue. I added indigo for color and attempted a gradient. I let it gel at room temp just to see what results it would have. One thing I definitely forgot to account for was the added fat from the coconut milk. I let it sit in the mold for about 16 hours and parts around the corners were a bit soft and easily cracked off. I would have let it sit longer but everything you read about coconut oil soap tells you it will be a brick if you wait too long to cut. When I cut some soap stuck to corners and side of the mold. The cuts themselves looked a bit wet but soon dried. I had to perform minor surgery to get the bars to look halfway passable 😂 So my questions are—do these calculations look ok? Was SF too high with the added milk unaccounted for? Should I have added sodium lactate or simply tried to fridge it? Should I have just left it the heck alone in the mold a while longer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 I’ve only made 100% olive oil soap without success and no lather. It looks like 30% super fat is very high. I usually use soap calc maybe recheck. These soaps do take very long to set up though. I’d sometimes leave them in the molds 3-4 days if it’s a softer soap and put in the freezer to firm up and it pops right out. Generally, coconut oil can be pretty drying so maybe add in another more oil or butter. The color is nice! I love using coconut milk or any milk for that matter in my soaps. Heavy cream is my favorite! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara AL Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Not much help here I make my 100% coconut soap at 20% superfat i buy powdered coconut milk and add it directly to the oils. i always add a Sodium Lactate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 I always make mine 20 percent super fat. That seems to be the popular percentage. You could make a batch with 20 and test against 30. I add sodium lactate in all my soaps as well. If you want to try a nice soap, do 20 percent super fat and then add half weight salt for a salt bar! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Soft corners usually mean (in my shop) that it May have just been too darn cold to fully sap. i make coconut oil only for cleaning at 0% sf. Defo too hard to cut so I made dividers. 30% seems very high, esp since it is a fatty milk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, TallTayl said: Soft corners usually mean (in my shop) that it May have just been too darn cold to fully sap. i make coconut oil only for cleaning at 0% sf. Defo too hard to cut so I made dividers. 30% seems very high, esp since it is a fatty milk. Think it will sort out with a long cure? or should I think about scrapping it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Don’t scrap it. Try another at 20 percent and see how you like it! And def try a batch with salt. Salt coconut bars are great. Warning ready to cut in an hour and best poured in molds not loaf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 Should I be worried that its lye heavy even with all that added fat? When should I test it? I've heard the ph strips can be inaccurate and I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea of putting anything in my mouth to zap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara AL Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 No do not throw it away it will be a nice soap may melt faster but will be nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shari Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 I wouldn't toss it. I too only SF at 20% for 100% CO. When using milks I mix my lye with an equal amount of water and then add my liquid milks enhanced with powdered milk to my oils before adding the lye. Eliminated having to freeze it and taking time to add the lye to it. Also, never burns the milk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 18 hours ago, sarahmarah said: Think it will sort out with a long cure? or should I think about scrapping it? I usually stick soft undersapped soap in the oven for a few hours. If that doesn’t solve it, then I rebatch into a new soap either HP or CP. You can use up to 1/3 existing soap in a new CP and achieve a smooth soap. It’s kind of amazing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted April 27, 2020 Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: I usually stick soft undersapped soap in the oven for a few hours. If that doesn’t solve it, then I rebatch into a new soap either HP or CP. You can use up to 1/3 existing soap in a new CP and achieve a smooth soap. It’s kind of amazing! Is there a way to tell if it didn't sap correctly? I don't want to zap it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 59 minutes ago, sarahmarah said: Is there a way to tell if it didn't sap correctly? I don't want to zap it.... If it stays soft, or even gets crumbly starting at the ends and corners it usually means it was too cold to sap in my shop. I just stick it in the mold then in the oven. If unsure, I would stick it in the oven. You will be forcing gel and getting rid of residual water at the same time. It might be sapped correctly, just over superfatted. If you get little to no lather from a 100% coconut soap it will be a good candidate to rebatch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted April 27, 2020 Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 Thank you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) Did you use full water (liquid) in your recipe? I ran it through a soap calculator and get 5.32oz of water. So I would use that amount as my coconut milk. I always do salt bars using a full water calculation. Also, how much salt did you use? When I make a 40oz batch I use slightly less salt at 36-38oz or 90-95% salt to oil. A little bit less salt may keep the soap from crumbling. Also, I use individual molds or a mold with dividers so I don't have to worry about cutting the soap, just unmolding. If you don't have this kind of mold you may want to consider one for the future if you plan to make more salt bars, especially if you plan to sell. Personally, I never use 100% coconut oil for my salt bars. I use 80% coconut oil and the other 20% any oil or combo of oils I like. I typically use shea butter and almond oil. I like my bars to be a bit more moisturizing. 30% superfat is pretty high even for a 100% coconut soap. Like others have posted, I would have started out at 20% and adjusted from there if needed. For my 80% coconut oil recipe I use 12% superfat and the bars are super moisturizing. I also use coconut milk in my salt bars. But I split my liquid, half aloe juice, half coconut milk. I make the lye solution with the aloe juice and add the coconut milk directly into the batter even before I add the lye solution. There is no need to add any liquid to your batter at trace unless you are using a known accelerator. Eg., pine tar accelerates fast so I add it in just before pouring my batter into the mold. Edited April 27, 2020 by Candybee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted April 28, 2020 Author Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Candybee said: Did you use full water (liquid) in your recipe? I ran it through a soap calculator and get 5.32oz of water. So I would use that amount as my coconut milk. I always do salt bars using a full water calculation. Also, how much salt did you use? When I make a 40oz batch I use slightly less salt at 36-38oz or 90-95% salt to oil. A little bit less salt may keep the soap from crumbling. Also, I use individual molds or a mold with dividers so I don't have to worry about cutting the soap, just unmolding. If you don't have this kind of mold you may want to consider one for the future if you plan to make more salt bars, especially if you plan to sell. Personally, I never use 100% coconut oil for my salt bars. I use 80% coconut oil and the other 20% any oil or combo of oils I like. I typically use shea butter and almond oil. I like my bars to be a bit more moisturizing. 30% superfat is pretty high even for a 100% coconut soap. Like others have posted, I would have started out at 20% and adjusted from there if needed. For my 80% coconut oil recipe I use 12% superfat and the bars are super moisturizing. I also use coconut milk in my salt bars. But I split my liquid, half aloe juice, half coconut milk. I make the lye solution with the aloe juice and add the coconut milk directly into the batter even before I add the lye solution. There is no need to add any liquid to your batter at trace unless you are using a known accelerator. Eg., pine tar accelerates fast so I add it in just before pouring my batter into the mold. I did a 33.33% lye solution (soapmaking friend calc said 3.59oz) I halved the amount of coconut milk for my lye mix and then added the other half of the coconut milk to my oils at trace. I wonder if I should have used more water? I didn't use salt in this batch but I do love a good salt bar. 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 11 hours ago, sarahmarah said: I did a 33.33% lye solution (soapmaking friend calc said 3.59oz) I halved the amount of coconut milk for my lye mix and then added the other half of the coconut milk to my oils at trace. I wonder if I should have used more water? I didn't use salt in this batch but I do love a good salt bar. 😊 My mistake. I should not have assumed they were salt bars. Other than that, the other tips I posted may help you some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Well I had to chuck this first ever batch as a FAIL. No zap on the outside of the bar fine and smelled fine on the outside. I used small pieces to wash my hands for a couple weeks and it was so nice and lathery with a great scent. No indication that it was off. No irritation just nice moisturizing. So I attempted to use a full size bar in the shower and I immediately smelled faint lye! Luckily I didn’t burn myself before I noticed. I took a knife and cut into a dry bar (it was not brittle or oozing) and immediately noticed unmistakable lye smell. In retrospect maybe that seepage in the above picture when I cut it was a good indicator of an issue. My calculations must have been off...I mixed the lye and milk meticulously for 10 min a little at a time and I strained it into my oils. Could measuring in ounces as opposed to grams have caused this? or perhaps a false trace? I’ve made more small batches of soap since and haven’t seemed to have had an issue but now paranoia is going to have me cutting up my bars. Do you have any advice on how to avoid this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 “Could measuring in ounces as opposed to grams have caused this? or perhaps a false trace? ” Definitely. In my 11” mold, for instance, the difference between 5% superfat and 7% is about a gram. One gram is about .034 oz which may or may not even register on the scale. chalk that batch up to a great learning experience. you can use some in a cold process rebatch. A cold process batch can take about 1/3 of the oils as old soap. What I mean is decrease your recipe by 1/3 of the oils, replacing those oils with finished soap. Melt the old soap into the new oils, stick blending well, and then treat that concoction the same as any other batch from there on. I have saved loads of “fails” that way. The resulting soap can be as smooth as any other cold process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahmarah Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 Thanks TallTayl, I'm going to chalk it up to a learning experience like you said. I've been having so much fun as I learn and its been such a good outlet for me. Right now I'm keeping my batches small in test molds and just trying and tweaking. My biggest hurdle has been when to know if a soap needs more time before extracting it from a silicone mold. I just made a really pretty beach bar but ruined the sides because it needed more time to firm up. Im going to need more patience for sure. 🙁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 If they are zappy , use them as cleaning soap. Nothing cuts through grease like coconut oil soap, especially if low on the superfat. My cleaning cubes are 100% coconut oil with zero superfat. Bacon grease doesn’t stand a chance against it. Works on laundry stains too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmzaha Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 I know I am very late to the party with this answer and if you are still around to see this answer Saramarah I have to ask how long you cured your bars before using? Many times a long cure of up to 6 months will fix even a lye heavy soap which I would be very doubtful yours was. You strained your lye solution so you would not have any undissolved lye in your soap and you had a huge superfat. Soap dries from the outside in, so many times, especially with any type of milks the middle can still have an odd smell to it, it does not mean it is a lye smell, and it can take 6 months or more for a chunky cut soap to dry all the way through the bar. Also, many new soapmakers do not always distinguish a true zap which is the feel of touching a 9 volt battery to your tongue. It will not really hurt you but give a jolt. For zap testing soap, wet your finger rub it across the soap then touch your finger to your tongue, followed by rinsing your mouth. If you do have a live lye crystal you really do not want to get it on your tongue. The same if you have liquid pooling on your soap Do Not directly zap test it, even if it is some oil pooling it very well could have some very alkaline liquid mixed with it, so wait at least 3 days before zap testing any soap or any pooling liquid if you think you have to test pooling liquid. I personally never test pooling liquid if it does not reabsorb I wipe it off. Sorry that is another topic... Remember you did not allow for the fat in your coconut milk and depending on the type of coconut milk it can be an pretty high addition of superfat, but you also added in extra coconut fat, so really when using coconut milk you would allow for the extra fat, coconut oil and water. There is a very good article here on how to calculate this https://classicbells.com/soap/nutritionLabel.asp. I would not have scrapped the soap, but grated it up and added to a low superfatted soap batter as confetti. By low superfat I am talking a 2% superfatted soap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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