No Hot Throw

[YAMS]

I am a little  sad today.  New to candles and my first tests (like 4 different FOs) were great.  All of a sudden all downhill.  The latest FOs I've tested have resulted in no HT.  I've read about the FOs in question and people seem to have great results with them.  So that tells me it's not the FO but something I am doing wrong.  The thing is I haven't changed anything I did before. It's getting expensive to test the same fragrances so many times specially when I do t sell my candles so I don't recover the expense. I don want to get discouraged because I am enjoying making candles but it's getting a little frustrating.  Any suggestions??? 

[moonshine]

Are you using the same exact method as the ones you did have good throw with?

:same amount of FO and cure time?

Did these FOs all come from the same supplier?

what type of wax are you using....I can only speak for soy as I am newer in parasoy but the soy will test your limits with throw, there are some that just don't work and I have found in my experience that many come from the the same supplier 

 

[Chariste]

I would give them to a friend or family member to test and see what they think. I can't smell any of mine but they have thus far gotten rave reviews. And consider how different everyone's experience has been with varying wick sizes, brands, and types of wax. It may not be anything you are doing wrong at all! This can get very frustrating, I know, I had to make myself hang in there, too. I felt like I was spending a ton of money but making no progress. But things began to turn around and once I got a few successful recipes under my belt, it was much easier to be patient. 

[YAMS]

6 hours ago, moonshine said:

Are you using the same exact method as the ones you did have good throw with?

:same amount of FO and cure time?

Did these FOs all come from the same supplier?

what type of wax are you using....I can only speak for soy as I am newer in parasoy but the soy will test your limits with throw, there are some that just don't work and I have found in my experience that many come from the the same supplier 

 

Yes.  Same method same amount of FO.  Maybe 3 days less of curing than the ones that worked.  Same company.    Other than the small change of curing time everything else is the same.  I can almost tell by the faint scent during the curing phase that it is not going to have good results .  Can 3 days make such a difference? I use IGI 4627.   The FOs I am talking about are FOs that get very good reviews for instance Blue Spruce and Peppermint Eucalyptus from CS which I have seen nothing but good reviews in HT.  Ugh!!!  Frustrating.  Makes me feel better that you've also gone through this.  Encourages  me to hang in here.  Thanks 

[moonshine]

I'm not familiar with 4627 at all, I'm sorry 

from what I understand paraffin is easier to get good throw than soy so hopefully someone who uses that was can help 

I do know with soy the longer they sit the better they throw my rule Usually is after 5 days I won't keep it my line unless I am totally in love with it 

maybe it's the type of oil with the pine and mint- I know for me in soy CS blue spruce will make your eyes water in a melt- in a candle is super soft throw and the peppermint eucalyptus I tried years ago with 464 but I honestly don't remember how it performed - I don't carry it now in 415 so I didn't like something about it  

[Moonstar]

I would put the candles aside and allow them to continue to cure longer. I agree, it can get very expensive  

[Jcandleattic]

How saturated is your house with the scents? You could have what we call in the industry "candle nose" where you are so surrounded by scent that you just can't smell it anymore. 

I would do as others suggested, and give them to someone to test throw for you, or air out the house, get away from the scents for a day or two, something, and that will probably help. 

[GoldieMN]

6 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said:

How saturated is your house with the scents? You could have what we call in the industry "candle nose" where you are so surrounded by scent that you just can't smell it anymore. 

I would do as others suggested, and give them to someone to test throw for you, or air out the house, get away from the scents for a day or two, something, and that will probably help. 

I often wonder how the people who make the fragrance oils deal with "candle nose" when they are working with fragrances all day/year long, working on blends.

Goldie

[moonshine]

I now wear a respirator when I am pouring and use a closed off room with a industrial exhaust fan....finally got my glass blocks replaced with a crank window to let air in as well 

it helps tremendously with candle nose but I have to label pour pots when doing multiple batches because you cannot smell a thing with it on- no more headaches and Direct breathing of super strong scents 

[Jcandleattic]

The people working in the lab, actually creating the scents/blends I am sure wear respirators the whole time, and work in formulas and recipes to get the scents correct, and not rely on their noses to get the scents correct. 

[Jcandleattic]

Just now, moonshine said:

I now wear a respirator when I am pouring and use a closed off room with a industrial exhaust fan....finally got my glass blocks replaced with a crank window to let air in as well 

it helps tremendously with candle nose but I have to label pour pots when doing multiple batches because you cannot smell a thing with it on- no more headaches and Direct breathing of super strong scents 

We were posting at the same time, and yes, this is probably how labs do it as well. 

[moonshine]

Lol - I think we were

 

I would think labs would have to for safety reasons as well- I never thought about it for many years and when I read about it on here a light bulb went off ....that's slot of particles to breathe when making pounds at a time 

even though data safety sheets say it's not necessary just to ventilate the room I had never did that either....started in my kitchen with no windows open and poured all day long.....now I won't pour unless everyone is gone and I lock myself in the storage room - it doesn't travel out much but I open the door wall if I smell it leak into the rest of the basement plus I have a UV light on the furnace that's supposed to zap dust and gases so hopefully that helps as well  

 

[YAMS]

6 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

How saturated is your house with the scents? You could have what we call in the industry "candle nose" where you are so surrounded by scent that you just can't smell it anymore. 

I would do as others suggested, and give them to someone to test throw for you, or air out the house, get away from the scents for a day or two, something, and that will probably help. 

Not too saturated since I don't mass produce.  But I know what you mean. Sometimes I don't know what I am smelling anymore.  Lol.  I have given it to my sister in law and my friend and they also don't smell much.  I've also moved them from the general open space in my house to my craft room and nothing.  

 

6 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

The people working in the lab, actually creating the scents/blends I am sure wear respirators the whole time, and work in formulas and recipes to get the scents correct, and not rely on their noses to get the scents correct. 

 

6 hours ago, moonshine said:

Lol - I think we were

 

I would think labs would have to for safety reasons as well- I never thought about it for many years and when I read about it on here a light bulb went off ....that's slot of particles to breathe when making pounds at a time 

even though data safety sheets say it's not necessary just to ventilate the room I had never did that either....started in my kitchen with no windows open and poured all day long.....now I won't pour unless everyone is gone and I lock myself in the storage room - it doesn't travel out much but I open the door wall if I smell it leak into the rest of the basement plus I have a UV light on the furnace that's supposed to zap dust and gases so hopefully that helps as well  

 

The other day I thought of sniffing coffee beans to see it would help with the candle nose.  Lol.  I know they do that when you're testing Perfumes.  When you want to smell a different fragrance it's supposed to eliminate the previous scent. I wonder if that would work?   Ibhave a respirator mask that I HAVE to use while pouring resin ( I create resin jewelry) but I hate to use it and I want to avoid it unless I have to.  What do you guys think of the coffee beans???  

[Moonstar]

6 hours ago, moonshine said:

I now wear a respirator when I am pouring and use a closed off room with a industrial exhaust fan....finally got my glass blocks replaced with a crank window to let air in as well 

it helps tremendously with candle nose but I have to label pour pots when doing multiple batches because you cannot smell a thing with it on- no more headaches and Direct breathing of super strong scents 

where did you get a respirator ? I need to get one, plus I never use FO when my sons  home.

[YAMS]

2 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

where did you get a respirator ? I need to get one, plus I never use FO when my sons  home.

I bought it online.  Recommended by other Resin artists.  They don't have to be super expensive just need to have the right system.  I got it from Amazon.  I can take a picture when I get home tonight and send it. 

[moonshine]

1 hour ago, Moonstar said:

where did you get a respirator ? I need to get one, plus I never use FO when my sons  home.

I got mine on amazon- Candybee directed me to the correct type for fragrance fumes

 

Here is the description and you can buy the cartridges as well- it comes with a couple

 

3M Paint Project Respirator, Small

 

 

 

 

[YAMS]

20 hours ago, moonshine said:

Are you using the same exact method as the ones you did have good throw with?

:same amount of FO and cure time?

Did these FOs all come from the same supplier?

what type of wax are you using....I can only speak for soy as I am newer in parasoy but the soy will test your limits with throw, there are some that just don't work and I have found in my experience that many come from the the same supplier 

 

Moonshine, I am doing everything the same except that before I added the Dye and FO while in the heating device.  The last batch I transfered the wax to a mixing cup (Pyrex) and added the FO there. I am thinking that may be the problem.  The temperature probably goes too low by the time I add the FO.  

[moonshine]

It could be, the only way to know is do them again not transferring your wax 

 

There are so many threads about when to add FO and pouring temp and heating temp - I was a fanatic about all this when I started but honestly the only thing I am consistent about now is my pour temp...I use soy and if I don't pour at my exact temp I end up with these horrible swamp creature looking candles, it doesn't effect the throw but it does the appearance big time!

there are many people that add FO at higher temps and many add it at lower temps, so long as it incorporates IMO I don't feel it affects the hot throw just from what I have done and my experience over the years but I could be very wrong and your wax could be very different, I have always used soy

I am more consistent now adding my FO now that I have a turkey fryer with a pour spout and it goes right into my pour pot with the FO waiting but in the past I used to try higher temps and lower ones thinking it would make a difference and it really didn't when all was said and done with the final product regarding hot throw 

you have to keep playing with your wax- it could be those 2 fragrances don't like your wick or wick size or your using to much or not enough FO....so many variables 

try it again and see if it doesn't work try backing off your FO amount some and see what happens - if other people are using this wax and wick and fragrance and say they get great throw it could be you need to do one of the above or it could be you don't smell the same as they do, I have had many I chalked off and gave to my family and they thought I was crazy claiming the throw was strong 

 

I use 2 different types of wicks CD and CDN - when I make a test batch I pour 1 cd 10- 1 cd 12 and 1 cdn12... I have it narrowed down to these 3 sizes to which one will work but if I don't get the throw I want I don't keep the scent some just don't plain work in my wax and I am one that won't bother trying other wicks because I don't want that time and headache, sometimes if I really like it I just make melts and have no candle to offer the scent in- so maybe try this method when you pour again- make 3 Testers with different sized wicks and 3 testers with a different FO percentage (lower, I think I read you use 9-10%? - which in paraffin I think most use less than that like 6%) 

let us know how it goes and search the threads on temps - many many reads with many different theories 

 

 

 

[Moonstar]

34 minutes ago, moonshine said:

It could be, the only way to know is do them again not transferring your wax 

 

There are so many threads about when to add FO and pouring temp and heating temp - I was a fanatic about all this when I started but honestly the only thing I am consistent about now is my pour temp...I use soy and if I don't pour at my exact temp I end up with these horrible swamp creature looking candles, it doesn't effect the throw but it does the appearance big time!

there are many people that add FO at higher temps and many add it at lower temps, so long as it incorporates IMO I don't feel it affects the hot throw just from what I have done and my experience over the years but I could be very wrong and your wax could be very different, I have always used soy

I am more consistent now adding my FO now that I have a turkey fryer with a pour spout and it goes right into my pour pot with the FO waiting but in the past I used to try higher temps and lower ones thinking it would make a difference and it really didn't when all was said and done with the final product regarding hot throw 

you have to keep playing with your wax- it could be those 2 fragrances don't like your wick or wick size or your using to much or not enough FO....so many variables 

try it again and see if it doesn't work try backing off your FO amount some and see what happens - if other people are using this wax and wick and fragrance and say they get great throw it could be you need to do one of the above or it could be you don't smell the same as they do, I have had many I chalked off and gave to my family and they thought I was crazy claiming the throw was strong 

 

I use 2 different types of wicks CD and CDN - when I make a test batch I pour 1 cd 10- 1 cd 12 and 1 cdn12... I have it narrowed down to these 3 sizes to which one will work but if I don't get the throw I want I don't keep the scent some just don't plain work in my wax and I am one that won't bother trying other wicks because I don't want that time and headache, sometimes if I really like it I just make melts and have no candle to offer the scent in- so maybe try this method when you pour again- make 3 Testers with different sized wicks and 3 testers with a different FO percentage (lower, I think I read you use 9-10%? - which in paraffin I think most use less than that like 6%) 

let us know how it goes and search the threads on temps - many many reads with many different theories 

 

 

 

You use 415 don't you ? What temp have you found works for pouring ? I have a sample box of 415 Im going to try over the weekend. So heat to 180-183

add FO about 180 ish + i'll try whatever temp you recommend to pour at. Cant remember what you told me before 105-110 ??? So its pretty slushy ???? 

[moonshine]

Right before it turns slush...around 110-100 depending 

I heat to 185 and have my FO waiting in a pour pot and then I stir a few minutes and walk away- come back a few times stiring and checking the temp......it takes FOREVER especially with a huge batch 

[Jcandleattic]

Just now, moonshine said:

Right before it turns slush...around 110-100 depending 

I heat to 185 and have my FO waiting in a pour pot and then I stir a few minutes and walk away- come back a few times stiring and checking the temp......it takes FOREVER especially with a huge batch 

UGH this is why I dont' mess with soy. I melt, add, pour and walk away and I'm done!! LOL 

 

Actually, I'm starting to test soy out. I like it, but it is a bit more of a challenge than my paraffin. 

[moonshine]

? it is very challenging - it took me years to perfect it but it's what I started with so I don't know any different really 

I could pour hotter with 135 and 464 but the throw wasn't there for me 

after testing 415 I was blown away by the throw but could not get it to look decent for a vey very long long time 

playing with parasoy I'm not going to lie - I LOVE heating and pouring and I'm done! 

Beautiful candles everytime but my challenge is still finding the perfect wick that doesn't leave black soot all over the jar, that's a whole new world for me even though soy can do that also you don't see it so much unless you use the lid to extinguish (guilty) or burn in a drafty area (again guilty) lol

what type of soy are you experimenting with?

[Jcandleattic]

Just now, moonshine said:

playing with parasoy I'm not going to lie - I LOVE heating and pouring and I'm done! 

Beautiful candles everytime but my challenge is still finding the perfect wick that doesn't leave black soot all over the jar, that's a whole new world for me even though soy can do that also you don't see it so much unless you use the lid to extinguish (guilty) or burn in a drafty area (again guilty) lol

what type of soy are you experimenting with?

I've started experimenting with 415 in my paraffin wax. I wouldn't have thought it, but I have to wick down a lot when I mix the 2. Even as low as 15% soy, The wicking is what makes me go crazy. Of course, it's the bane of every candlemaker! 

When I started the experiment I thought it was 464 (that's what I ordered) but they sent me 415, so I just stuck with it. 

[birdcharm]

In some ways, other possibly or not possibly at all about when to add the scent (except, I wouldn't add it while wax is still on a heat source thinking that it may burn off, but I could be wrong), I think the stirring is really a main component, as mentioned by moonshine. 

 

I've seen "how to" (not) videos on youtube showing adding scent -- first, they always pour it like they're pouring a drink and swishing a stick through the wax for a minute -- that's not how to add scent when making candles (it makes me so mad to see them teaching people that!!)  My old books say to add scent a drop at at time!!!  Now, I don't seem to have the patience for that entirely, but I do add it slowly, while stirring -- with a SPOON, not a stick -- in circles, in figure eights, back & forth -- and again before I pour.  I really think that incorporating the scent into the wax has a lot to do with all of this -- also, with paraffin or blends, the use (not overuse, which can have an opposite effect), of the correct vybar (there are two types, based on meltpoint of the wax), can help too. 

 

That's my two-cents anyway!

 

[Jcandleattic]

Just now, birdcharm said:

In some ways, other possibly or not possibly at all about when to add the scent (except, I wouldn't add it while wax is still on a heat source thinking that it may burn off, but I could be wrong), I think the stirring is really a main component, as mentioned by moonshine. 

 

I've seen "how to" (not) videos on youtube showing adding scent -- first, they always pour it like they're pouring a drink and swishing a stick through the wax for a minute -- that's not how to add scent when making candles (it makes me so mad to see them teaching people that!!)  My old books say to add scent a drop at at time!!!  Now, I don't seem to have the patience for that entirely, but I do add it slowly, while stirring -- with a SPOON, not a stick -- in circles, in figure eights, back & forth -- and again before I pour.  I really think that incorporating the scent into the wax has a lot to do with all of this -- also, with paraffin or blends, the use (not overuse, which can have an opposite effect), of the correct vybar (there are two types, based on meltpoint of the wax), can help too. 

 

That's my two-cents anyway!

 

Scent won't burn off unless you sustain it at a high heat for a very long time (20-25 minutes or more, at 200°+) 

I always pour my scent in rather fast. Nothing wrong with doing it that way, as long as it doesn't splash up or get everywhere making a mess.

I don't use any vybar in my paraffin because it's a blend (which most container paraffins are) and don't need it, as all additives are already blended into the wax. 

Hope this helps clarify a few things.