jfear Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hello everyone! Peak was once again out of 4786, it sells so fast, arghh! Anyway, I was desperate and ordered some from Lonestar; although marked as IGI 4786, it most definitely is not. It's yellowed in color and it's soft, like soft enough to put a deep thumbprint in it. Not at all like from Peak. Why does this happen?!! I ordered from Lonestar once last year and was disappointed but I really needed my 4786! Peak said they'll have it back in stock by September. Does anyone know who carries 4786 comparable to Peak's? Peak's is bright white and much firmer than at Lonestar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 I wanted to mention as well that Peak's 4786 is firm enough to make tarts with whereas Lonestar's is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) I decided to use some of the Lonestar wax for containers, because I need it. The package was filled with condensation and I wiped the wax down, however after melting it had some water beading going on. I can't get all the water out of the slab until I melt it. The color and rigidity is the least of my worries now! So bummed, could anything else go wrong today? ? Edited August 27, 2016 by jfear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFyre Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I am so bummed for all the trouble you are going through and wish I could help, but I'm also thankful for your post. I decided to try out 4786 because of the many positive comments about it on this board and my closest option was Lonestar. I've never experienced what you did with the yellow discoloration or the condensation, but you are dead on when you say Lonestar's 4786 can't be used for tarts. I thought I was losing my mind and that this wax just didn't like me because for the life of me I could not get it to perform by itself or in a blend like I thought it would perform. I was about to give up on it and move on to something else. I never stopped to think that I should try a different vendor's 4786. Last I checked, Bulk Apothecary, Aztec, and Bitter Creek South all carry 4786, so maybe when Peak gets some back in stock I'll try Peak's and compare it to the other vendors as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 This is interesting. When I worked for Bitter Creek, we had a location in TX that would have bought from the Baytown IGI plant and the wax was identical to that which came from OshKosh, WI. There is no reason there should be this much variant between lots of this wax. It should be hard and slabbed. Sometimes water does get in wax when the cooling lines break...and since water and wax don't mix, just melting it will solve the problem. I'd call Lonestar and complain. This does not sound like any 4786 I've ever used and I have personally used this wax for almost twenty years! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 This is interesting. When I worked for Bitter Creek, we had a location in TX that would have bought from the Baytown IGI plant and the wax was identical to that which came from OshKosh, WI. There is no reason there should be this much variant between lots of this wax. It should be hard and slabbed. Sometimes water does get in wax when the cooling lines break...and since water and wax don't mix, just melting it will solve the problem. I'd call Lonestar and complain. This does not sound like any 4786 I've ever used and I have personally used this wax for almost twenty years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I use 6006 which is also an IGI wax. All year I have gotten different wax consistencies - some are actually brittle, the case I emptied today had to be scooped out with a spoon, and the new case I opened is what I think it's supposed to be. You can look up a thread I start - I think it was 'Caution:6006', or something like that. I started paying attention to the lot numbers, and I complained to Aztec. They contacted IGI and their response was 'no problems here'. In my opinion, something is going on with quality control at IGI. I don't think it's the supplier, but rather the manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 This whole thing is weird to me, because I remember when Old Glory was having problems with 6006, and I was buying it from the same supplier at the same time with the same lot #. I ended up ordering a case from another supplier which also had the same lot # as OG's bad wax. Both my cases were fine, as well as a separate slab I also ordered because I was scared to death I was going to get a bad batch. Same lot #, three different shipments among two different suppliers, mine was good, hers was not. So I'm wondering if the suppliers are mixing up the waxes when they are distributing them, or if improper storage or varying environmental conditions can possbily compromise the waxes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I get my 4786 from Aztec. It is white & hard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 1 hour ago, grama said: I get my 4786 from Aztec. It is white & hard. Great to know! I was going to call them on Monday and ask them if they have normal 4786, so thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 12 hours ago, bfroberts said: This whole thing is weird to me, because I remember when Old Glory was having problems with 6006, and I was buying it from the same supplier at the same time with the same lot #. I ended up ordering a case from another supplier which also had the same lot # as OG's bad wax. Both my cases were fine, as well as a separate slab I also ordered because I was scared to death I was going to get a bad batch. Same lot #, three different shipments among two different suppliers, mine was good, hers was not. So I'm wondering if the suppliers are mixing up the waxes when they are distributing them, or if improper storage or varying environmental conditions can possbily compromise the waxes. And Aztec shipped back the other cases of that batch even tho IGI said it was within their 'normal range'. I've been using 6006 for maybe 5 years and never had a hint of trouble before this year. Although I am not positive, I think IGI changed hands recently. This inconsistency makes it hard as a wholesaler to deliver a product that is the same with each order. Frustrating, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAMS Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I have seen many posts on 4786. Being completely new to candle making can some of you weigh in as to what makes this wax so good? What kind of wax it is? Any information would be helpful. Thanks for helping out the newbies. I don't sell candles nor do I plan to but I would love to perfect the art for myself and my friends and family. Happy Monday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 On August 29, 2016 at 2:44 PM, YAMS said: I have seen many posts on 4786. Being completely new to candle making can some of you weigh in as to what makes this wax so good? What kind of wax it is? Any information would be helpful. Thanks for helping out the newbies. I don't sell candles nor do I plan to but I would love to perfect the art for myself and my friends and family. Happy Monday Hello! I basically could not perform my craft without 4786; it's superb! It can be used straight for containers or tarts and it blends beautifully with pillar blends for freestanders. The reasons I use it is because of its creaminess, its opacity, its rigidity for a container blend, and it throws beautifully. I've been using it since I started and have not looked back. My supplier is Peak, theirs never disappoints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) Just wanted to give an update; after contacting Lonestar about this bad batch of wax, the woman I spoke with was unapologetic about it. There was no compensation basically; she also responded in a way that made me feel like I didn't know what I was talking about. I know my 4786 and this is just a bad batch, period. Discolored, soft, water beaded and a strange smell once melted. Anyway, that was twice that I ordered from Lonestar out of desperation and the last. I feel as though any other company would have tried to rectify the situation. Now Peak, please get my 4786 back in stock! Edited September 8, 2016 by jfear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I hate crappy customer service. NOTHING will turn me away from a retailer faster than the impression that they don't really care. I am pretty convinced that IGI is messing with the wax formulas. We're in for a rough ride until they figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 bad time of year to start messing with wax formulas. I haven't had a bad batch yet..... that I know of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightkeeper Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 thought this was a good time to chime in on problems with the IGI. I have used 4630 for years, never had any issues, Ordered quite a few cases late last fall, and had nothing but issues with it. Instead of being a one pour, I had cracks & craters in almost every candle. Also, was burning hot with way more soot! Complained to supplier, they went back to IGI, who came back with a bunch of instructions & questions on how I was using it. Well I haven't changed a thing, in over 10 years & it was working just fine up until this batch, so HELLO- I don't think it has anything to do with what I am doing. After some back & forth, I found out that IGI had other complaints on this batch, from other suppliers, & they ended up replacing it - THANK GOD! The new batch is working just as it always has in the past. So yes, I would say they are definitely having some Quality control issues there. - very frustrating, when you count on it to be consistent. Who has time, to retest, and fix batches when you are coming up to the busiest time of year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) It's the absolute worst time for this to happen. I've used all of my good batch of wax for testers and I have nothing to pour for my shoppe but crappy Lonestar wax. ? Peak said their 4786 shipment was delayed and it could be another 4 weeks! So, I ordered some from Aztec this morning, my fingers are crossed. Edited September 8, 2016 by jfear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Ya know.... Peak is killing me lately. good support and all. But they are constantly out of stock of items. And the timeframe from order to shipping to arriving to me is way longer than anyone else. grrr 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 wthomas, this has been going on all year. jfear, I am buying my wax from Aztec, so getting a good batch of anything is a roll of the dice. When I complained to Aztec, they contacted IGI. IGI sent them a data sheet and said the wax in question (that lot number) 'was within the normal range'. Aztec sent all of that batch back. Then they got in a few good batches. The last 2 batches of 6006 have been COMPLETELY different. One of them had to be scooped out because it was too soft. The next one seemed normal. The 4625 I buy has been consistent. Maybe the trouble is only with the blended waxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 yah, when I said "lately" I kinda meant "since I can remember". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfear Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 Ughh. This is all really disheartening. ? Old Glory, did Aztec at least reimburse you or give you store credit for the 6006 issue? I think you're right about the blended wax being the problem, I've ordered 4625 from 3 different suppliers and it's all basically the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OldGlory Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 No, they didn't, but I didn't ask for it. I had already used the wax and it had been delivered to my cleint. I work on a deadline and it was a done deal. But I didn't want to buy another case of the poor quality wax, so at least they shipped it all back. They took some action at the time. After that there were other lots that were 'off', but I figured IGI was going to tell us there was nothing wrong with that wax either. I really feel stuck with this inconsistent wax. Aztec has always taken care of the problems attributable to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle guy Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Peak is starting to irritate me as well. Perhaps this is the busiest time of the year for them? They have great customer service and response times but they cannot seem to keep anything in stock. I needed a few items from them yesterday half of which they had in inventory. Consequently I was left having to pay shipping 3 times because I needed to pick up what they didn't have on hand at other suppliers. They were out of 6006 and tumbler lids which I need asap for a party that I am prepping for. I also have been waiting on their clamshells to reappear so I had to go a 3rd distributor for those and pay their shipping. UGH! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Has anyone tried bulk apothecary? I recently bought a couple cases on two occasions when I found decent coupon codes (one 10% and one 16%). That really offset the shipping costs and each time the wax was as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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