chevril Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Hi, I noticed that Rustic Escentuals lists all the FOs I looked at there as being cruelty free. This brings up a new thought for me. I never buy makeup unless it's cruelty free but somehow I presumed candle fos would not be tested on animals. Does anyone here know if they ever are? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL83 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I know Nature's Gardens, Elements Bath & Body, Lonestar, BrambleBerry, and SaveOnScents do not test on animals. They all state so on their respective websites. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevril Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 4 hours ago, AL83 said: I know Nature's Gardens, Elements Bath & Body, Lonestar, BrambleBerry, and SaveOnScents do not test on animals. They all state so on their respective websites. Thank you,that's wonderful to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siren12 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I asked candle science because I was curious, they responded right away. Here is their response: CandleScience Support (CandleScience Support) Feb 25, 9:25 AM Good morning, Brigit: Thank you for sending along your question! All of our soy waxes and fragrances are considered vegan-friendly, and none of our products have been tested on animals. If you're looking at some of the other products we carry, you may want to avoid paraffin, beeswax, and dyes (many of which have a paraffin base). I hope this information helps! Let us know if you have additional questions. All the best, Shelley CandleScience Support 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Why would you want to avoid paraffin, beeswax and dyes? Dyes have a paraffin base? Does Shelley mean avoid these products because they've been tested on animals? There was some kind of cruelty involved in the taking of wax? So they put a rat in a room with a lit paraffin candle and fed them beeswax and candle dye? I'm confused. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 What a weird answer. But maybe from the vegan perspective avoid beeswax.? given all the weird questions this supplier's get daily I think I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siren12 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) She was referring to if we want out final products to be vegan ( which didn't ask about jus the cruelty aspect) vegans wont eat or use any animal products/ anthing made by animals. paraffin is made out of/has animal fat in it I believe, and bees wax is taken from the bees and vegans don't want any animal by products. Edited: Looked up paraffin wax and Wikipedia says that paraffin is a oil based/ petroleum product which basically comes back to animals because oil is from fossils/ animal/ plant decay. And if the vegan really wants to take it that far they may as well not buy any candles or drive cars because transportation is run buy oil and gas... Edited February 25, 2016 by Siren12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I'm pretty sure that's what was meant by their answer too. Although they didn't mention those products as not being vegan its the only thing that would make sense in the way it was said. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL83 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I wouldn't consider paraffin wax or petroleum animal-based but I also still wouldn't consider it cruelty free. "Most of petroleum is plant material more than animal material. For animals to fall into peat etc which later became crude oil was pretty rare, however, most petroleum products are not vegan-friendly due to other ingredients and frivolous animal testing etc." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Does cruelty free walk hand in hand with all natural? Kind of looks like that "our products are all natural" so maybe that was thrown into the automatic thinking of people who only eat pine cones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandytea88 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 48 minutes ago, chuck_35550 said: Does cruelty free walk hand in hand with all natural? Kind of looks like that "our products are all natural" so maybe that was thrown into the automatic thinking of people who only eat pine cones. I hope I'm correct in my understanding, maybe someone could help! From what I've briefly read about Palm Oil (for example), it is an all natural, non-animal byproduct but it's production "seems" to be a big reason for the endangerment of orangutans in the rain forest because their homes are being destroyed so more Palm plantations can be created. In that way, I think that it can be thought that all natural isn't always cruelty free per se. I know the folks here are more experienced with this stuff so if I'm wrong they can chime in And yup, I also agree with CS that they probably meant ingredients that are products from animals, like lanolin I think is a big one because it comes from sheep wool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL83 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 In my experience... the two do not walk hand in hand. All-natural is an umbrella term and many things can be classified all-natural that some may not expect to be designated as such. For example, in food, I try to avoid anything that says "all natural flavoring" as the ingredient and not the specific flavoring agent they used. One of the grossest, in my opinion, being Castoreum, aka “natural raspberry flavor” comes from the anal glands of beavers, secreted to mark their territory. Cruelty free is a very specific term which designates wildlife and animal life were not harmed in any way during the sourcing and manufacturing of the item or product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevril Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 On February 25, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Siren12 said: I asked candle science because I was curious, they responded right away. Here is their response: CandleScience Support (CandleScience Support) Feb 25, 9:25 AM Good morning, Brigit: Thank you for sending along your question! All of our soy waxes and fragrances are considered vegan-friendly, and none of our products have been tested on animals. If you're looking at some of the other products we carry, you may want to avoid paraffin, beeswax, and dyes (many of which have a paraffin base). I hope this information helps! Let us know if you have additional questions. All the best, Shelley CandleScience Support Wow, Massive relief! Thank you for contacting them! CS is where I get a lot of my stuff because the jelly jars, FOs & postage to California are very low cost and I was having a hard time getting up my nerve to contact them (if they did test on animals weeks of testing with CS products would be wasted). You and CS have made my day brighter! Thanks! On February 25, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Siren12 said: I asked candle science because I was curious, they responded right away. Here is their response: CandleScience Support (CandleScience Support) Feb 25, 9:25 AM Good morning, Brigit: Thank you for sending along your question! All of our soy waxes and fragrances are considered vegan-friendly, and none of our products have been tested on animals. If you're looking at some of the other products we carry, you may want to avoid paraffin, beeswax, and dyes (many of which have a paraffin base). I hope this information helps! Let us know if you have additional questions. All the best, Shelley CandleScience Support and 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevril Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 On February 25, 2016 at 7:32 AM, chuck_35550 said: Why would you want to avoid paraffin, beeswax and dyes? Dyes have a paraffin base? Does Shelley mean avoid these products because they've been tested on animals? There was some kind of cruelty involved in the taking of wax? So they put a rat in a room with a lit paraffin candle and fed them beeswax and candle dye? I'm confused. I think they were anticipating other questions that might be asked by people who are concerned about animal testing, since many of us are vegan ( no beeswax) and may be health conscious ( some folks think paraffin is toxic). At this point I really don't know if paraffin is still considered toxic. It isn't, it it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevril Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 On February 25, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Siren12 said: She was referring to if we want out final products to be vegan ( which didn't ask about jus the cruelty aspect) vegans wont eat or use any animal products/ anthing made by animals. paraffin is made out of/has animal fat in it I believe, and bees wax is taken from the bees and vegans don't want any animal by products. Edited: Looked up paraffin wax and Wikipedia says that paraffin is a oil based/ petroleum product which basically comes back to animals because oil is from fossils/ animal/ plant decay. And if the vegan really wants to take it that far they may as well not buy any candles or drive cars because transportation is run buy oil and gas... I'm vegan and I wouldn't go that far back! Yikes, couldn't live on Earth! I really think it's a health question. You know... vegans being thought of as health conscious. But then there are junk food vegans like me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 The palm issue is a nasty can of worms. Its not a simple issue for most people. I understand that the natives make money by mowing down jungle and planting palm trees, which destroys not only the homes of wildlife but creates a problem with the ecosystem. You have to look at this from the perspective of how large a footprint does procuring raw materials make on the planet. Certainly drilling for oil makes a huge print but does breathing paraffin fumes pose a greater health risk than breathing soy fumes? Human activity in general, creates problems for the environment and its an honorable thing to respect nature, but gee whizz. Some animal was harmed in the making of any of this stuff, either accidentally or on purpose; so ease up. Whether it comes out of a beaver anus or a downed banana tree, you just can't avoid leaving that human footprint. KWIM? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandytea88 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 54 minutes ago, chuck_35550 said: The palm issue is a nasty can of worms. Its not a simple issue for most people. I understand that the natives make money by mowing down jungle and planting palm trees, which destroys not only the homes of wildlife but creates a problem with the ecosystem. You have to look at this from the perspective of how large a footprint does procuring raw materials make on the planet. Certainly drilling for oil makes a huge print but does breathing paraffin fumes pose a greater health risk than breathing soy fumes? Human activity in general, creates problems for the environment and its an honorable thing to respect nature, but gee whizz. Some animal was harmed in the making of any of this stuff, either accidentally or on purpose; so ease up. Whether it comes out of a beaver anus or a downed banana tree, you just can't avoid leaving that human footprint. KWIM? Yep! I understand where you're coming from. I had never known about this kind of stuff until recently when I really got deeper into the hobby. A couple of kindle books on candle making brought up the decision to use/not use palm and had no clue why until I looked it up. It's interesting to read the different viewpoints on the whole ballpark of animal cruelty as it relates to candle/lotion making 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL83 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 1 hour ago, chuck_35550 said: The palm issue is a nasty can of worms. Its not a simple issue for most people. I understand that the natives make money by mowing down jungle and planting palm trees, which destroys not only the homes of wildlife but creates a problem with the ecosystem. You have to look at this from the perspective of how large a footprint does procuring raw materials make on the planet. Certainly drilling for oil makes a huge print but does breathing paraffin fumes pose a greater health risk than breathing soy fumes? Human activity in general, creates problems for the environment and its an honorable thing to respect nature, but gee whizz. Some animal was harmed in the making of any of this stuff, either accidentally or on purpose; so ease up. Whether it comes out of a beaver anus or a downed banana tree, you just can't avoid leaving that human footprint. KWIM? Cruelty free specifically refers to animal life. Not "drowned banana trees". However, the rest of your passive aggressive post makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.