Forrest

I believe I got an email saying this sale would be followed by a price increase

What’s that Christmas Tree like Trap? I may have to try the Chestnuts & Brown Sugar and Orange Peel and Cinnamon, since they’re recommended by a trusted source. I love the smell of their Bergamot Orange & Grapefruit, although I’m not sold on the HT. But if you want HT their Lemongrass is powerful.

In my 28 years at NASA I've been involved in a lot of testing in one capacity or another. Candle testing just gives me the opportunity to put that knowledge to use.

When I tested at two weeks I tried a CD6, CD8 and the 51Z at 80 degrees and there was almost no difference in the two CDs, but both worked well and the 51Z was too hot. Given the results of yesterday’s test I think the CDs would be too small after a couple of months. I’ve got some 464 that I could test for the price of a wick, so I think I’ll test both waxes. I just made 2 tins with CDs for my sister in law; I guess I better tell her to burn them soon.

Two months ago I poured two 8oz tins with 6006 wax and 51 zinc wicks. I tested the first one after two weeks and the second one yesterday, at two months. Unfortunately I only got data for the second candle for 3 hours. There was an emergency and the candle burned for an unknown number of hours before I got back to it so comparative test results are not possible beyond three hours. But the results I did get are a bit shocking. The test were done in the same room and temperature, humidity, and airflow should have been very close to the same, so to the best of my ability I had isolated the difference to a single variable, which was cure time. The two main measurements I took were MP width and weight, from which I calculated burn rate. Over three hours the two week candle burned 10 grams of wax while the two month candle burned 13 grams. The difference in MP was the most surprising. The first candle reached a FMP by the two hour mark while the second candle had not quite reached that at three hours. So while the first candle was clearly over-wicked, it appears that an extra six weeks of cure time solved that problem. Now before TT brings this up I have to say that the one variable I didn’t take into account was wick length. I won’t make that mistake again. From my job I have some knowledge of testing procedures and what it takes to validate a test so I can say with some confidence that you shouldn’t draw any conclusions based on this one test, but it should give you something to think about. Any good peer reviewed journal article that reports test results gives some sort of conclusion or recommendation, so I’ll do the same. Given these results it would be best if you estimated the length of time it will normally be between when you make a candle and when you sell it and give your test candles that much cure time. The other thing a good peer reviewed journal article does is recommend what needs to happen next. I need to do some side by side testing on wick length and repeat the previous test using identical wick lengths.

Is that during the making of the candle or the burning of the candle? We usually have a week or two of lower humidity during the summer. I guess I'll need to start a new list; I have the nice list, the naughty list and the try again in October list.

I think some of the reason for my low success rate is that I always seem to order about 30% "what was I thinking" FOs. Those are the ones that look good on the website, but I should have known better. For example WSP's Pistachio & Magnolia was a what was I have done preliminary testing on six from my most recent WSP order; three were hits, two need further testing and one seemed to have no fragrance at all. That is at least a 50% rate, perhaps I am ordering smarter.

I often wonder about all those FOs I blamed for what turned out to be my mistaken assumption that candle making is easy

I agree Shari. We would have to say what we used the FO in for this to have value. I would hope the people on this board know that everyone has different taste, and that they wouldn’t base their buying decision solely on one person rejecting an FO. But it would be nice to have something other than the suppliers website’s five star rating and glowing reviews to help us decide which FOs to try.

I find this thread very disturbing. First there are links to seven suppliers I didn’t even know about, this has caused me to develop a twitch in my right eye from the strain of not clicking on the links. Then there was the one link I did click on, candlemakingsupplies, they have fragrances designed just for Ultra Wax, which is a soy coconut blend; what is that all about? Do I need to try that? I think my hair may start falling out and how will I ever be able to sleep again. I think I need to make some candles this weekend, that will calm me down.

Maybe we need a Hit or Miss thread as a follow on to the Sale thread. If we documented the misses in a thread people could refer back to it before ordering next time.

Yes, but you would need to like the fragrance enough to want to continue using it.

I’m curious; I know ordering FOs is a hit and miss proposition, but I get the feeling that I’m missing more than I should. If I define a “hit” as a FO you either order more of, or are still using a year after you first get it, what would you say your hit rate is. I don’t think I’m doing much better than 15%, maybe 20% at best. Of course if you loved them all you'd have to stop ordering new ones and where is the fun in that.

Apparently BA carries some Lebermuth FOs, but I don't think they tell which are which. WSP carries Crafter's Choice. The Chemistry Store carries Lebermuth FOs. I can't be sure but it seems like most suppliers are making their own FOs. I went into a shop in a little town in North Georgia where the owner made her own FOs.

I tested 8oz tins with CD6 and CD8 and the CD6 gave me a slightly bigger melt pool. I would try a 51 zinc if you haven't already tried it. If that didn't work I would try the CD10 before moving on to a different wick.

The discussion on color got me thinking. If you had the resources you would hire someone who was an expert in colors as they relate to point of sale marketing. So a company like Yankee Candles would have hired such a highly trained, professional expert to help select the colors for their candles; and the good people at Yankee Candles are nice enough to have a web site to display the results of their professional candle color selecting process. I would be fascinated to hear the results if someone changed the color on a candle that wasn't selling to a color similar to what Yankee Candle using for a similar fragrance.

I don't know, I just cut and pasted, I was shocked they weren't all black.

I googled color and marketing. This is just a sample of the information I found, there is lots more. Red – Creates a sense of urgency, which is good for clearance sales. Encourages appetite, thus is frequently used by fast-food chains. Physically stimulates the body, raising blood pressure and heart rate, associated with movement, excitement, and passion. Blue – The preferred color of men. It’s associated with peace, water, tranquility, and reliability. Blue provides a sense of security, curbs appetite, and stimulates productivity. The most common color used by conservative brands looking to promote trust in their products. Green – Associated with health, tranquility, power, and nature. Used in stores to relax customers and for promoting environmental issues. Green stimulates harmony in your brain and encourages a balance leading to decisiveness. Purple – Commonly associated with royalty, wisdom, and respect. Stimulates problem-solving as well as creativity. Frequently used to promote beauty and anti-aging products. Orange & Yellow – Cheerful colors that promote optimism. Yellow can make babies cry, while orange can trigger a sense of caution. Used to create a sense of anxiety that can draw in impulsive buyers and window shoppers. Black – Associated with authority, power, stability, and strength. Often a symbol of intelligence, but can become overwhelming if used to frequently. Grey – Symbolizes feelings of practicality, old age, and solidarity. But too much grey can lead to feelings of nothingness and depression. White – Associated with feelings of purity, cleanliness and safety. Can be used to project an absence of color or neutrality. White space helps spark creativity since it can be perceived as an unaltered, clean state.

I have noticed that before, but I don't recall it with the Fresh Orange I got from The Chemistry Store, which is a Lebermuth FO. I'll have to test that one again look for it.

First let me say I am not an expert in marketing; but I have read a few books because the subject interest me. I’ve also been thinking about marketing candles, so I will share my thoughts, please take them with a grain of salt. My first thought is association is a great tool for selling candles. By that I mean if the name you give a fragrance has some association to a pleasant memory, or experience for your customer they are much more likely to buy it. For example Fresh Linen might sell better as clean sheets because everybody knows and loves clean sheets. If you can pick names that may connect to a good memory your customers have they will buy more candles. So, if you are in an area where people pick their own apples then Fresh Picked Apples will sell better than Green Apples. For a Christmas scent Christmas Morning would be a good name. Another way is to use names that create curiosity and a mood of anticipation. Dragon Blood, or Volcano are examples of this. People have strong associations with colors, but I have no knowledge of what they are so keeping records and experimenting is the best advice I could offer. You might try making the same candle in multiple colors and see which one sells first. As soon as I finish my current book on the Persian Empire, I may listen to the books on marketing that I have, or find a new book that has some good point of sale information. If I do I’ll report back on what I learn.

My Jelly Doughnut candle in an 11oz tureen. It has good CT and I'm hoping the HT matches that. I didn't test the FO in wax so I'm calling this my test candle. I still have a little work to do on the inking process on the threaded part of the container, but I don't think she'll mind the flaws.

So I cut and pasted the list into a Word file, it is 45 pages. Don't think I'll be printing it, probably best to keep an electronic version.

Yes they are, I got to see her candles at a little shop in Blue Ridge, GA and I have to say they are as good as any I have seen anywhere. When I grow up I want to make candles like Trapp's.

Would you say that the quality is the same? I love the quality of the Lebermuth FOs I have gotten from the Chemistry Store, but they are a soap supply store and unconcerned with hot thro.

Are all of BA's FOs Lebermuth FOs?