Bizarre To go or not to go?

[clueless]

I agree with you 001. You don't have to spend months and months to get a great product. My feelings are bit hurt with some of the things that have been said. It's as if us "Noobs" don't have a place upon "seasoned" candle makers. I don't think thats the right way to look at it. One can be new to something and be great at it.

I'm not an amateur at running a home based business nor am I an amateur at handcrafted products. I am fairly new to candles yes, but I have been running a very very successful business from home for almost a year now. All it took was some determination. I remember back when I started my business making baby items, so many people told me I would never be able to sell anything like that.....Guess what they were so wrong! I have sold my items all over the world. And if I didn't jump in there and take it serious it would never have happened. So to say that I'm to new or not experienced enough to jump in, is wrong

[ChandlerWicks]

Hit the Like Button for the two posts above mine!

[Jillsthings]

Hit the Like Button for the two posts above mine!

I am ALWAYS looking for the "Like" button. Every forum should have one, haha!

[ChandlerWicks]

I know!

I am ALWAYS looking for the "Like" button. Every forum should have one, haha!

[Wessex]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the above post. But had to clear up one thing. Due diligence is NOT subjective in a court of law if one is being sued for product liability. Just sayin...

Not trying to start any arguments.

Cheers.

[clueless]

And I thought this forum was supposed to be supportive........

[Jillsthings]

And I thought this forum was supposed to be supportive........

It is supportive, but also, like in everything else, opinions vary. If you have questions, you can bet they'll be answered, and you'll probably learn even more than you ever thought! It's really a great forum. :-)

[clueless]

I mean I agree. I know everyone here is helpful and I appreciate that. I Know everyone has opinions. I do

I guess I was looking for a bit of different advice and tips, and got sort of a punch in the face.

But really, I'm not mad at anyone. Everyone is entitled to feel a certain way.

And I am thankful for the people here.

[dbsumner]

Your never going to have the experience unless you do it!!! I was nervous my first show but oh so excited too. Bring table and nice cloth to cover you can even use boxes under your cloth to make things different levels for desplay.......I say go for it!!!!

[dbsumner]

I did make about $130 just from my mother taking them and selling them at her work just last week. So I know people really like them. I have decided that even if I don't go and sell, I'm atleast going to go and scope it so that maybe I know what to expect and can prepare.

I will keep everyone posted on my decisions

I say do it my first show i was nervous too but it was fun and i did great.

Good luck and i say do it

[clueless]

I say do it my first show i was nervous too but it was fun and i did great.

Good luck and i say do it

Thanks for the support I'm glad to hear that you had good luck on your first show. That's awesome!

[001]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the above post. But had to clear up one thing. Due diligence is NOT subjective in a court of law if one is being sued for product liability. Just sayin...

Not trying to start any arguments.

Cheers.

I could get into a legal argument here but I won't. It is best to consult your personal attorney for advice in this area. An attorney's mind is built to construct and distroy cases. Sitting down for an hour or two with your products gaining information is worth every penny, not just for the liability part, but business advice. You can go over different business structures (never.... EVER do sole proprietor) and their recommendations for a direction. They may even bring something up you hadn't thought about.

Back to clueless. I still say go for it. If you commit to something it sort of forces you to 'get it together'

[Stella1952]

I guess I was looking for a bit of different advice and tips, and got sort of a punch in the face.

No one "punched" anyone in the face. Telling people cold, hard facts may not SEEM kind, but it's better than encouraging people to put out products that have not been thoroughly tested under different environmental conditions. Professional candlemakers test, retest and test again because they KNOW more than a quick run-through is needed to make quality products. 3 weeks is simply not long enough, period.

Clueless, I know when you began and how hard you have worked on your products. While making products with an open flame isn't quite the same as making baby items, the two things do have one thing in common: the need for safety. If you feel ready, have done your testing, including power torture testing, and you think your products are performing with consistency, then test your market. If you still feel unsure or are having difficulties, it won't hurt a thing to wait until you feel more solid. If you have had friends, etc. testing your products for you, perhaps gifting some this year would net some good feedback from a variety of sources. You won't lose anything by waiting, but if you jump too soon, you can earn a reputation that will be hard to live down.

You are a businesswoman: use your own good judgement.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Stella1952

[Judy, USMC]

My mother insists I go and set up a small booth selling some candles, tarts, body butter and bath bombs stuff like that, you get the idea ....

I am however very concerned. How prepared do you really have to be for something like this?

There are safety issues with candles so you have to be really prepared before you start selling them ... that's why I recommended starting with one product and then moving on to the next. Mellts would be great to start with; easy to test and relatively quick to make and less liability than any of the other items you mentioned.

Many times friends and (especially) relatives are afraid of bruising people's feelings and will buy and praise items that they will really never use. That's why it's important to get testers who are completely honest. At this forum you will get advice and critiques based on first-hand experience. We don't know you so you will get advice based on the poster's personal opinion and experience. People are supporting you by taking the time to answer your post. Don't take offense if it's something you really didn't want to hear. Take it or leave it ... but don't take it personally.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Judy, USMC
wording

[001]

What, then stella would you have done differently than I? If what I did wasn't testing I don't know what would pass under your definition I don't know what would. By the way I don't believe pouring and burning over 600 candles to find 30 that "worked" is a quick run through. Combined it is a little over 18,000 hours of burn time. If you were to test 4 at a time it would take over year if you burnt for 12 hours per day every day. If you heard someone had tested their candles for a year, found 30 they liked and had burnt over 600 candles to get there you wouldn't have said anything but congrats... but because I dove in with structure and method and got the same amount of testing done in about 5% of the time I am feeling like there is a penalty, not that I have to prove anything to anyone.

I think I am taking this a little personally because I still use the system today, even after testing different jar sizes, waxes, and wicks... I keep coming back to the same system because it works... excellently. On top of that from what I have read it is almost identical to your system. It wasn't luck I stumbled on it was the result of meticulous and obsessive testing. The days I was testing was absolute hell, everything had to be added and I couldn't skip a beat, I had to get through the entire line of candles in 10 minutes so I could get back to the first one to record the next round of data. I didn't have work, I didn't have any external stimuli. I only had the occasional visit from my mentor (who has adopted my system btw)

[CaftCandles]

Well due diligence is subjective. If testing everything on the market 3 or 4 times is due diligence than no I didn't. I knew what I wanted to do - create a soy candle that burns smoothly and evenly with no problem. My mentor gave me the 'basics' told me about the different wicks, the difference between them, how they perform and what they have found, so I ordered a lot of each. Then I knew I wanted to be without paraffin and palm, so I focused on soy. Some soy simply sucks, and the reviews tell me this, so I avoided them and picked four.

I tested four in every wicking combo I thought would work in an unscented candle. I had 190 wicks going at once the first night, knocked out quite a few of them and proceeded with the bests, then I poured 15 scents in each wax and burned them for throw, knocked out two waxes, and some of the wicking, then I went onto pouring the rest of the scents. I poured, cured, tested, powerburned, and re-tested. After 600-some candles I came up with 30 I liked how they performed and yes, it took 3 weeks to do. If this is insufficient, so be it, but I have around 2,500 single spaced pages of information including the viscosity of the FO v wicking, depth of the wax pool over time, height of the flame over time, time to edge, ambient temperature, temp on the bottom of the container, and what kind of flame it is producing. All this information was taken every 10 minutes, and graphed. I tested at ambient temps at 64º, 70º, and 74º. I also paired this with information I have from blankey, the cheep wally world ones, a few local companies and colonial. I've also mapped performance and found a sweet spot based on a few different factors, which is why I guess which one will work at first. As for performance over time, I don't really understand that, over the life of the candle or the shelf life? Shelf life is something I do not test, I personally won't sell a candle that is over 2 months old. If I pour an order and it isn't picked up or returned they are given away. The oldest candle I have now is around 4 years old, and was one I had at my first table at the show mentioned above.

The three week thing is not for everyone, and shouldn't be taken lightly but to assume a product is inferior because it didn't take months, or years to test is, well, bold. Candle science is not some new frontier, we have enough information on this board alone to come up with a system that will work, and with some super fine tuning and testing they could have a marketable product in just a week or two. It would take a decent amount of information gathering up front, and masses of meticulous testing run consecutively but it could be done.

I agree and well said! I have always been a fast learner and have to ability to analyze and diagnose problems faster than most which is why I've been successful in my career. troubleshoot through the "Process of elimination" and as always Multi-Task, Multi-Task, Multi-Task! 3 weeks is impressive considering everything you've outlined, you have been very busy! On a legal note, scan and save multiple copies of your records just in case. What you explained about your record keeping sounds almost exactly like what I do, lots of info to go back to for a quick refernece to solve a new problem. GL

Edited December 8, 2011 by CaftCandles

[TallTayl]

Well, after spending a couple of decades in aerospace supporting quality assurance and risk management, I've become a bit more risk averse than many. I investigated enough injuries, disasters and near misses to make me think long and hard about life's little details. No, candle making is not rocket science, but it does involve real risk. Most accidents are preventable - it just takes experience to know how to prevent them.

Only you will know for sure when you are ready. Three weeks is a very short amount of time in any craft. It reads as if you have some hesitation about jumping into a new candle business so quickly already. When in doubt, don't. Well-meaning family and friends will always push you into doing things that they think will be easy, fun or profitable without understanding the product, costs or risks. It's their job to support you emotionally . Have your buyers even burned your candles yet? Do they/you have enough product feedback to know for certain you have a quality, safe, consistent product?

How well do you know your product? How well are you able to answer basic questions from strangers? For instance, when someone asks you how long you've been making candles, what will you say? How would you feel if the tables were turned and you were the one hearing the answer "three weeks"? Would you trust the product or the person?

Have you ever purchased hand made product that didn't live up to your expectations? How did you feel? Would you be eager to buy something similar again?

There's bound to be competition at the event. Often they will shop your booth asking seemingly benign questions. Will your feelings remain intact if competitors exploit your weaknesses or inexperience to your potential customers?

If you're truly confident in yourself and your products, then go for it. If you have any misgivings, then look to fill those gaps first, then come out of the gate strong, ready to face whatever comes your way and make some real money in the process.

Some people progress through the process at a much faster pace than others. Some have more time to devote to product testing and development. Some have more aptitude than others, or a fatter bank roll. Every situation is different.

Just make sure you cover your bases. If you don't have product liability insurance yet, invest in it. You're already "in business" and exposed to risk since you've sold product. It's not worth potentially losing your assets over a couple hundred bucks worth of insurance.

best of luck to you no matter what you decide.

[clueless]

It's been longer than 3 weeks...where is everyone getting 3 weeks?? I actually have bought something from someone that was handmade that I was disappointed in. I will say no names but this person has been candle making for a long time and has the cutest set up so I thought her candles gotta be good. Boy was I wrong. The scent was weak and wick was a mess. Talk about mushrooming. But I didn't bash her or try to ruin her business. That's just cruel. People need to grow up and act like adult instead of trying to rip and tear others down. I have had feedback from people that are not close friends that would be honest, that have actually burnned the candles they bought and melted the tarts. Everyone really loves them.

I just want to say I'm sorry for starting this post. I absolutely cannot believe some of the things that have been said. Some have been supportive some not so much. It doesn't take months upon months to master a candle. I have been fortunate and been able to spend money on all the things I need and not have to skimp. I do work from home and have spare time. I'm sorry if you seasoned candle makers think that someone new walking in and making a nice item is un heard of. I didn't mean to start such an uproar over this. I simply wanted some tips. I had even said multiple times that I was just going to go scope it out and have still be typed at like I was going. Which wouldn't matter. Oh well, I'm young..can make a hip and trendy product and feed something to everyone. I have faith in me even if no one else does. Thats how I made it happen before.

Most of you have been really really wonderful about this post. Giving me advice and being supportive so thank you. It is a big decision to jump in and do a show especially so early. And me being nervous has nothing to do with my "product" It has something to do with having enough stuff made and having a nice looking set up.

Please just remember when you start talking about someones ability to make a nice product that you were in their shoes at one point or another. Everyone starts someones. It could be that young girl beside you at the craft show that doesn't have all this fancy crap and tons of stuff on their table that blows up and really makes something out of herself and her business. It could be that somebody that really makes a name. Everyone is new at something at one time. And everyone needs to act adults....it's not a contest here. It's an online cyber forum where people come for advice and tips and support. Sorry for rambling on here and writing so much. I have lots of different feelings flying around right now. I hope that you all can atleast look at my post and understand a little bit where I'm coming from. It's like some people are naturally crafty...they do it a bit and bam they got it. Some people don't have a crafty bone in their bodies. I have always since I can remember been a crafty girl. I get it honest.

[001]

They are getting the three weeks from me, I tested my candles in 3 weeks and posted that information above.

Please don't be sorry for starting the post, it was actually very important I believe. It started a discussion that I believe was beneficial to the board, and community at large.

"I have faith in me even if no one else does."

First I say I love this, second, I have faith in you.

Remember Yankee Candle was started when a 16 year old melted crayons with a string in the middle for his mom. He sold it to his neighbor for enough $ to buy enough to make two more. One for his mom one more to sell.

I have faith in the 'little guy' which is why I support what I support. You never know when the next Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates will come up and you don't know when or how they will show themselves. If 25 years ago someone said that a man named Steve Jobs was going to spearhead the death of the local music stores with a device that was about the size of a pack of gum... nobody would have believed them. They wouldn't have believed that there were going to be computers the size of a notebook that can hold millions of pieces of information, and it would be affordable enough to have in every home they wouldn't believe you. It is Mary Poppins technology at it's finest. You put in as much as you want and it doesn't get heavier.

The point is you just never know... and assuming you do is the first mistake. When you know enough to know you don't know... you know you'll be good... as long as you never stop improving.

[ChrisR]

It's been longer than 3 weeks...where is everyone getting 3 weeks?? .

You tested your 1st candle on 11/1, so it hasn't been much longer than 3 weeks and if you've gotta feedback from 'selling' to friends, etc. they had to have gotten them awhile ago.

I personally love newbies around my area selling candles without insurance and proper testing. I'm still here, they aren't and their old, unsatisfied customers are mine now!!

On with the show!!

[Whisper Girl]

Come on Clueless. You asked for advise and you got honest answers from people who have been doing this a long time. You may not have got the answers you wanted, but the answers were based on a LOT of experience from very talented people. On this forum, I have asked questions and got some answers that were very brash, but you can't wear your feeling on your sleeve. You have to take the answers and figure out if they are valid for your situation. Patting you on the back and telling you to jump in with both feet is not always good advise. Not only should you have a great product, you have to have a marketing plan and a business plan. It sounds like you have a product that you are pleased with, but do not have your marketing plan or business plan which includes liability insurance. There are a lot of crafters who jump in with both feet and can't figure out why they are not making any profit. No one wants to upset you. If you just want a little hobby that is one thing, but if you want a business then pay attention to the experience that is found on this forum. I did and it is really paying off for me! Hugs and good luck!!,

[clueless]

You tested your 1st candle on 11/1, so it hasn't been much longer than 3 weeks and if you've gotta feedback from 'selling' to friends, etc. they had to have gotten them awhile ago.

I personally love newbies around my area selling candles without insurance and proper testing. I'm still here, they aren't and their old, unsatisfied customers are mine now!!

On with the show!!

Ahh congrats to you!!! I'm so happy to hear that you are so pleased with the failure of others......

[Beth]

"Come on Clueless. You asked for advise and you got honest answers from people who have been doing this a long time"

& I only chimed in because I am still new at this, like you. Having read your posts from early November about your first candle and you're being "clueless" to candlemaking, as you stated, & now a month later: you've learned it, tested it thoroughly, sold them and received good feedback. Really? I thought you might appreciate the opinion of another newbie that maybe you might slow down & reevaluate where you're at before selling. But clearly you only want to hear "Go for it!"...

[clueless]

"Come on Clueless. You asked for advise and you got honest answers from people who have been doing this a long time"

& I only chimed in because I am still new at this, like you. Having read your posts from early November about your first candle and you're being "clueless" to candlemaking, as you stated, & now a month later: you've learned it, tested it thoroughly, sold them and received good feedback. Really? I thought you might appreciate the opinion of another newbie that maybe you might slow down & reevaluate where you're at before selling. But clearly you only want to hear "Go for it!"...

Beth, I don't only want to hear "Go for it" As I said, I understand opinions, but some things really could have been left out. I do appreciate people writing but I didn't think it would turn into such a mess. I'm sorry for feeling confident and I feel as if most people want me to back down. Truly some comments were uncalled for, not all but some.

[Stella1952]

Not all comments were directed to you, dear. And what you do not like, you are free to leave behind. You did not turn this thread into a mess - another poster hijacked it and made claims that were serious enough to divert attention away from your issue - that's life on the forum and it does happen sometimes.

I've already offered you my opinion. My very best advice to you is to do some gifting this Christmas and test your market... maybe your candles are ready and maybe they are not, but it doesn't sound like you are ready to hear criticism, constructive or otherwise.

YOU and YOU ALONE have to make this decision and accept whatever consequences come with it.