which burns cooler?????????

[jwn6w]

:angry2:It's me again I have been told by two different suppliers two different things. One supplier told me that the zinc tea light wicks burn cooler than the cotton so I ordered some. After having the tea light cups catch fire I decided to try another supplier and ask them which tea light wicks burn cooler and they told me cotton! So come on which is it I am totally confused now. Please can somebody help me and also does burning cooler mean that the wick burns longer? I am not an experienced candle maker as you can tell I just have been trying on and off to make some candles that I can burn here in my house. Thank you again for you expertise advice I appreciate it very much.:smiley2:

[coconut]

Flame is flame, and the temperature of the flame will be hot regardless of the wick material. My understanding is that if a wick burns "hotter", you get a bigger melt pool for the same size wick. You experts out there, please correct me. Thanks.

[Stella1952]

After having the tea light cups catch fire I decided to try another supplier and ask them which tea light wicks burn cooler

Did you not understand the lesson? PLASTIC MELTS AND IS FLAMMABLE, period. It doesn't matter HOW MANY people you ask for their wicking opinions, the basic fact remains unchanged: you are making candles in a flammable holder.

Sure, some wick materials burn hotter than do others, but the bottom line is that they all have flames. A tealight is a tiny candle. You cannot control the way it is burned by customers. Why not get some of the smallest wicks of whatever kind available and TEST THEM FOR YOURSELF?

[jwn6w]

Did you not understand the lesson? PLASTIC MELTS AND IS FLAMMABLE, period. It doesn't matter HOW MANY people you ask for their wicking opinions, the basic fact remains unchanged: you are making candles in a flammable holder.

Sure, some wick materials burn hotter than do others, but the bottom line is that they all have flames. A tealight is a tiny candle. You cannot control the way it is burned by customers. Why not get some of the smallest wicks of whatever kind available and TEST THEM FOR YOURSELF?

I just asked a simple question as to which burns cooler or hotter that's all. I do not plan on using the plastic holders anymore. I wanted to know which supplier is giving me the right information that's all. I do not like the idea of a supplier giving me the wrong info. seeing they are suppose to know what they are selling. I do not know what it means my burning hotter or cooler and how you can tell so I being a dumb bell asked for an answer. It is that simple that's all I wanted to know.

[Stella1952]

I just asked a simple question as to which burns cooler or hotter that's all

I understand but it isn't as simple a question as you might think... I don't think that either supplier is necessarily right nor wrong because this depends on the wax in which the wick is burning. While a wick might burn hotter or cooler in the air, that's not how we use it - we use wicks in wax, so the kind and blend of wax in which the wick is burning makes a difference.

I do not like the idea of a supplier giving me the wrong info

CS is a decent supplier and I feel sure they did not intend to mislead you in any way. Suppliers have opinions and make mistakes like everyone. While they are certainly expected to know more than the average person about candlemaking, they do not know everything and often are mistaken about some of their statements.

You are certainly not a "dumb bell" nor are you incorrect for feeling confused when you get two opinions which differ 180° from one another! Honestly, the best thing to do is to purchase a sampling of small sized wicks from different manufacturs and test them in YOUR wax system to see what works best for YOU. I'm not being facetious here - people can have very different opinions and outcomes even using the same materials, so it really IS important to check these things out for yourself. HTH & good luck!

[ksranch]

It's a great question, and one I asked myself before - but, Stella's right - I only use 4 wicks in all my applications - but when testing and learning "my" system I got different results depending on the application (and therefore the wax). In other words, in my pillars X wick would burn "hotter", but the same wick in a container acted different. You really do have to find the right one for your system/applications.

[Donnalee]

How about the fragrance oils....Some are denser,some contain more or less compondents that may clog the wick and can burn differently. How about the dyes? They can make a difference also. Have used the plastic cups in the past. Never had a problem. Unless theres something different in the plastic why all the sudden are they catching on fire? What kind of glue are people using to attach the wicks? Some glues are flammable. Who knows...somebody probly found a cheaper way too make them. Thats how we do things in this country. Let me tell you about the metal cups...they are so thin, I wouldn't be surprised if they caught fire also.

[Stella1952]

Have used the plastic cups in the past. Never had a problem.

You are absolutely right that all the various components make a difference, but the sheer number of recalls in the past 10 years alone indicate to me that using a flammable container for a product with a flame is inherently unwise. I occasionally use one of the thousand plastic cups I'm stuck with to make a tealight for myself here and there, but there is no way I would sell them.

Let me tell you about the metal cups...they are so thin, I wouldn't be surprised if they caught fire also.

I haven't set one of those on fire yet (although I did set the tealight it contained on fire) BUT if you put them in a nice, hot trash fire outside, they will burn.:laugh2:

[Donnalee]

Thats just it...haven't heard anything about this. A customer did ask me about this a few months ago. I had no clue. I was so turned off with the metal cups I just ordered a 1000 plastic cups a week ago. Will be testing for sure. This is the part of candle making that really turns me off. Maybe thats why the price was right. Will see......

[Stella1952]

haven't heard anything about this. A customer did ask me about this a few months ago. I had no clue

It's been on the news and manufacturers have recalled tealights for safety reasons for many years... Many issues have been reported right here...

Here's a listing of recalls from the CPSC website - some of them go back to 2005...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cgi-bin/prod.aspx

This, by no means, is a list of all of the tealights recalled for safety concerns.

Note that a couple did not even mention reported injuries or losses - they were recalled because the flame was too high... Big companies often do not wait for stuff to happen when a safety issue is reported - they voluntarily withdraw the product rather than risk injury, lawsuits and reputation. They know that the best defense is no be there.

While the metal cups are thin and not terribly attractive (IMHO), if the tea light catches on fire, they do NOT melt and do prevent the fire from spreading horizontally. If a plastic tea light catches on fire, the cup will melt and/or catch fire rather than containing it horizontally.

Another reason I personally like the metal cupped tea lights is I can snatch the tealight out of the metal cup and put it into a prettier, more safe & secure holder. The plastic ones are usually too tight to the sides of the plastic to remove the little candle from the cup.

[ksranch]

You beat me to it Stella - when I read the "I didn't know" I was going to post that link too ... they are all over the place for being a hazard... won't find them in my inventory!

[Stella1952]

When DonnaLee said she didn't know, I actually DO understand how this could escape one's attention. If one is not a big reader of magazines & newspapers, depending on catching a sound bite on the news (if they run the story) is not gonna get it. I check the CPSC recalls every so often, but I was surprised at how many of the tealight recalls were because of the plastic cups. I knew I had seen recalls because of high flames, but I did not realize how many recalls there were for the plastic cups melting, etc. alone... So I decided to clot my inbox some more by signing up for the recalls to be sent to me. At least that way, I won't miss them.

I still can't get over the recall of those mondo cute succulent candles in the clay pots... broke my heart!

[Jillsthings]

So what about if you put them in an actual tealight holder? Say a nice glass one? I didn't know, and of course, I just bought some a week or so ago. :-( I've burned a couple with no problems, but it's like I tell my kids...it only takes one time! Anyhow, probably a stupid question, but I would think that if it was in a glass tealight holder, that the holder would contain the fire, and while still not safe, it wouldn't be quite as dangerous. Maybe I'm just trying to rationalize my purchase, haha!

[jwn6w]

I understand but it isn't as simple a question as you might think... I don't think that either supplier is necessarily right nor wrong because this depends on the wax in which the wick is burning. While a wick might burn hotter or cooler in the air, that's not how we use it - we use wicks in wax, so the kind and blend of wax in which the wick is burning makes a difference.

CS is a decent supplier and I feel sure they did not intend to mislead you in any way. Suppliers have opinions and make mistakes like everyone. While they are certainly expected to know more than the average person about candlemaking, they do not know everything and often are mistaken about some of their statements.

You are certainly not a "dumb bell" nor are you incorrect for feeling confused when you get two opinions which differ 180° from one another! Honestly, the best thing to do is to purchase a sampling of small sized wicks from different manufacturs and test them in YOUR wax system to see what works best for YOU. I'm not being facetious here - people can have very different opinions and outcomes even using the same materials, so it really IS important to check these things out for yourself. HTH & good luck!

I still have not gotten an answer as to how you can tell which burns cooler. Is the way to tell by how quickly all the wax is melted in your tea light cup? Last night I light 2 different ones, the first burned out after not quite 4 hours ( this was the cotton one) and the other had well over an hour to go when I blew it out.( the zinc one) So does that mean the later one burned cooler?? I am just using 4794 wax and it had no Fo in it. I know this is a stupid question but I just want to understand. Also what is the best thing to use to glue your tea light wicks to the cup with?? Thank you

[rjdaines]

How about melt pool diameter? Stick each wick in a large container and measure the size of the melt pool at 1 hour and maybe some time after that. I would think that the hotter wick would produce a larger melt pool.

[ChrisR]

The coolest burning wicks are actually zinc and hemp. As far as the poly tea light cups catching fire a lot depends on the type of tart warmer you are using them in. If it's too close to the underside of the dish that holds the tarts, it can cause a problem and also the tart warmer must have A LOT of ventilation so the air can circulate properly for the burning tea light. I actually sell both metal and poly cups and ask my customer what type of warmer they are using. It's worked for me for many, many years with no flaming tea lights. I also sell my hurricanes with a glass tea light holder. This may not work for others, but I figure if I practice due dilligence, it can help!

[Pam W]

How about melt pool diameter? Stick each wick in a large container and measure the size of the melt pool at 1 hour and maybe some time after that. I would think that the hotter wick would produce a larger melt pool.

Or the depth of the melt pool.

IMO the zincs burn cooler

[Sharon in KY]

I always heard zinc burns cooler, I just have a thing about metal in wicks. I use soy container wax and LX 8 wicks. Burns nice and slow. I have the plastic holders and the tin. I use the tin where it is hidden in a tart warmer and the plastic where you want the glow to show threw. I also add the glass t-lite holder where needed. What wax are you using. I think the wax also adds to the cooler or hotter burn.

[HorseScentS]

I still have not gotten an answer as to how you can tell which burns cooler. Is the way to tell by how quickly all the wax is melted in your tea light cup? Last night I light 2 different ones, the first burned out after not quite 4 hours ( this was the cotton one) and the other had well over an hour to go when I blew it out.( the zinc one) So does that mean the later one burned cooler?? I am just using 4794 wax and it had no Fo in it. I know this is a stupid question but I just want to understand. Also what is the best thing to use to glue your tea light wicks to the cup with?? Thank you

Your question was a good one. I believe the adage, "The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask." It's easy to get confused about candle making, so of course, you must ask. I've always heard zincs burn cooler.

Ignore the nasty know-it-all types, who think they own the forum and have the right to be rude at whim. There are many nice people here, who will nicely answer any question you ask.

Edited November 13, 2011 by HorsescentS

[Candybee]

If it helps I used to use zincs in my paraffin and parasoy candles. I liked the wicks for the reason that they did burn cooler than all cotton wicks for my particular candle application. By cooler I mean the jar candles were much cooler to the touch after burning them for several hours.

When I used all cotton wicks the jars would get too hot to pick up after an hour or two of burning. This was important to me as I am aware that some customers (including myself) will pick a candle up from time to time when its been burning.

On the other hand, I am now using all cotton wicks for my palm wax candles because zincs won't work in them. The important thing to learn is which wick series and size works best for your candle application.

[CaftCandles]

I still have not gotten an answer as to how you can tell which burns cooler. Is the way to tell by how quickly all the wax is melted in your tea light cup? Last night I light 2 different ones, the first burned out after not quite 4 hours ( this was the cotton one) and the other had well over an hour to go when I blew it out.( the zinc one) So does that mean the later one burned cooler?? I am just using 4794 wax and it had no Fo in it. I know this is a stupid question but I just want to understand. Also what is the best thing to use to glue your tea light wicks to the cup with?? Thank you

To directly answer your question, YES the second one (the zinc one) burned cooler. Typically zincs burn cooler than other wicks but you still have to test that theory because what everyone else is saying (and I agree) is that each wax system is unique and will have a different outcome, so use the information you get here and from suppliers only as a starting point. Always test in your own application to see what results are best for you.

[EricofAZ]

Cooler and hotter are terms of art. The variables have to be entered. If the flame diameter is the same between a cotton and a zinc, then the zinc is cooler. Here's why...

Take any wick that sucks up the wax and gives it the ability to burn. The wax is hot and liquid and vapors off of the material and burns. If the core is cotton, then the entire wick is drawing wax. Lets say both wicks are 2mm in diameter. The cotton core has 2 mm of material that will draw the wax and help it to burn. It has a decent rate of consumption (ROC) which is pretty stable. Maybe, lets, say, it consumes .1 ounce per hour. Now lets find a zinc wick that has the same diameter. The core is metal. The outer shell is wicking material for the wax. It will not draw as much wax and hence, burn cooler than the cotton core. It will have a lower ROC. So lets say you choose a zinc wick that has the same ROC meaning that it draws the same amount of wax per hour as the cotton core. I will bet you a nickle that it is a larger diameter wick held side by side as the cotton core, but it will also burn at about the same temp, give or take a hundred degrees.

A wick will burn at around 2500 degrees depending on where it is measured and what the wax is. So a hundred degrees here or there is really not relevant to tealights. It comes into play only when sorting out flame diameter and FO load, which is really advanced stuff and testing for the perfectionist.

The recalls are sometimes over emphasized. Last recall that I looked at was ONE tealight that deformed out of SEVEN MILLION. Not bad.

If your plastic is deforming and catching fire, you have it way overwicked and zinc isn't your answer. A much smaller wick is your answer.

I use TL 10 and TL 15 in my tealights. Sometimes HTP 13, though they are hard to find and pretty hot for most wax (except maybe high melt point wax).

There is no zinc that I would use in a tealight. The smallest zinc that is on the market is too hot for my use. Same with cotton core.

Edited November 14, 2011 by EricofAZ

[coconut]

If it helps I used to use zincs in my paraffin and parasoy candles. I liked the wicks for the reason that they did burn cooler than all cotton wicks for my particular candle application. By cooler I mean the jar candles were much cooler to the touch after burning them for several hours.

When I used all cotton wicks the jars would get too hot to pick up after an hour or two of burning. This was important to me as I am aware that some customers (including myself) will pick a candle up from time to time when its been burning.

On the other hand, I am now using all cotton wicks for my palm wax candles because zincs won't work in them. The important thing to learn is which wick series and size works best for your candle application.

Candybee, was the flame height the same size when you compared the zinc and cottons?