FO% math question

[mlomeli]

Ok, so math is not my strong suit. If I have 16oz of wax and it says suggested is 6%, what is that? :embarasse Just trying to fine tune and stuff...

Edited November 2, 2011 by mlomeli

[robertgibbens]

16 oz X 0.06 (6 percent) = 0.96 oz, or 1 oz!

[mlomeli]

16 oz X 0.06 (6 percent) = 0.96 oz, or 1 oz!

Ok, that's what I thought. I feel...well, a little silly for asking. Thanks.

[Stella1952]

Here's my favorite "cheat" that I keep bookmarked with my candle stuff...

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

Edited November 2, 2011 by Stella1952

[Georgia]

Ha! I've had the online conversion bookmarked for years and never knew the percentage calc was in there!

I have an excel spreadsheet with common weights and 3 columns for 4, 6, and 9% taped on the wall above my workbench.

[mlomeli]

Nice, thanks!

Here's my favorite "cheat" that I keep bookmarked with my candle stuff...

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

[Stella1952]

I am so math lazy, I have bookmarks for the percentage calculator, the temperature conversion, the weight conversion, and several others I use reasonably often. I actually am good at math, but it doesn't come "naturally" to me. If I am tired or having a "senior moment" (AKA "brain fart"), I will misremember the formula or manage to screw it up somehow, so I do not trust myself, even with my beloved calculator, which has an annoying "garbage in, garbage out" propensity... :rolleyes2:laugh2::laugh2:

[chuck_35550]

I like to pour my wax to the last drop with none left over and each candle having pretty much the same fill line. I add one ounce of fo to 15 ounces of wax which is a tad over 6% load and works out exactly 8 ounces per jar. So if the fo is too strong for that formula I just add the extra ounces of wax, easy peasy. HTH

Steve

[Stella1952]

That's 6.25% FO, Steve. 1 oz. PP is 5.88%

The problem with rounding things off "a tad", especially when testing, is you don't really know if the FO was a close miss or if it flew in under the radar because you added a little extra when testing. If this works for you when pouring, fine, but the actual percentage can make a difference when testing.

each candle having pretty much the same fill line

I weigh candles as I pour so they have the amount in them stated as the net weight on the product label. Works a LOT better than eyeballing and takes very little more time. I don't worry if I pour 1/10th oz. too much, but I never let one go with 1/10th oz. too little.

[Rneuert]

That is very handy for us math challenged individuals ) Thank you for sharing - I'm new to candle making and every little bit of info helps!

[HorseScentS]

I like to pour my wax to the last drop with none left over and each candle having pretty much the same fill line. I add one ounce of fo to 15 ounces of wax which is a tad over 6% load and works out exactly 8 ounces per jar. So if the fo is too strong for that formula I just add the extra ounces of wax, easy peasy. HTH

Steve

I'm glad you brought that up, because I've been confused about that lately. Are we supposed to subtract the amount of FO from the wax before we add the FO? I mean, I thought it was done like this: (I'll use 10% for ease of calculation) For a 10% FO load, you would add 1.6 oz of FO to 16 oz of wax. But is that wrong?

OR: Do you first subtract 1.6 oz of wax from 16 oz, which leaves a remainder of 14.4 oz of wax, and then add 1.6 oz of FO to the 14.4 oz of wax for a total of 16 oz of wax and FO mixture in the pot?

Is there a thread about this? I wouldn't know what search terms to use to find it.

Edited November 4, 2011 by HorsescentS

[Stella1952]

The percentage refers to the TOTAL scented wax mixture. The candle has a 6% FO load. The candle. The whole thing. As in 1 oz. PP = 5.88% of 1 oz. + 1 pound (16 oz.) wax = 17 total oz.

Use this calculator to help you:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

Always Wondering beat you to this in the recent thread below - Post #10 has the explanation

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?101182-Co-amp-c3&p=930818#post930818

[HorseScentS]

The percentage refers to the TOTAL scented wax mixture. The candle has a 6% FO load. The candle. The whole thing. As in 1 oz. PP = 5.88% of 1 oz. + 1 pound (16 oz.) wax = 17 total oz.

Use this calculator to help you:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

Always Wondering beat you to this in the recent thread below - Post #10 has the explanation

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?101182-Co-amp-c3&p=930818#post930818

Thanks, Stella! That's how I've been doing it, but I got confused after reading some comments which sounded like they were subtracting. I'm still just a tad confused, but don't have time to blather on about it, so I'll take your word for it, and perhaps blather more later. lol

[HorseScentS]

The percentage refers to the TOTAL scented wax mixture. The candle has a 6% FO load. The candle. The whole thing. As in 1 oz. PP = 5.88% of 1 oz. + 1 pound (16 oz.) wax = 17 total oz.

Use this calculator to help you:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

Always Wondering beat you to this in the recent thread below - Post #10 has the explanation

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?101182-Co-amp-c3&p=930818#post930818

Here's what I'm a tad confused about: You said "the percentage refers to the TOTAL scented wax mixture." For a 10% pp FO load, if you add 1.6 oz of FO to 16 oz of wax, the total weight of the scented wax mixture is 17.6. But, 10% of 17.6 is 1.76 oz, not 1.6 oz. So, to make a scented wax mixture which is exactly 10% FO and 90% wax, you would have to subtract, I think. I don't mean to

but, it still is a lil bit confusing. & I realize that everybody's going to do it the way they like to do it, but it seems that those who are subtracting the weight of the FO from the wax before they add it are getting a bit stronger scent, I would think.

Edited November 5, 2011 by HorsescentS

[Georgia]

.06 x 12 = .72 oz

.94 x 12 = 11.28 oz

----------------

100 ........ 12.00 oz

If you want 6% FO you want 94% wax. You total equals 100%

Edited November 5, 2011 by Georgia

[Stella1952]

Here's where we're goin' astray, Horsescents...

For a 10% pp FO load

You are mixing two different ways of expressing a formula:

percentage formula and proportional formula.

Per cent literally means per 100. Everything adds up to 100 (or a whole of 1)

In your example of 10% FO Load PP, 16 ounces is 100% of the total weight (wax + FO or scented wax). The kicker is to finish the question: 1.6 is 10% of WHAT? Answer = 16 ounces. 1.6 is 10% of 16 oz. But there is only 14.4 ounces of wax in this 16 ounce mixture, so we have a problem with the PP statement....

Georgia gave us a percentage formula above, which I have used for your figures of 10% of 16 total ounces of scented wax. (Which BTW, is a brilliantly EASY PEASY way to figure out how much of each you will need to make a specific amount of scented wax - CHOOSE THIS if you want to do your own calculating)

.10 x 16 = 1.6 oz (10% of 16 oz)

.90 x 16 = 14.4 oz (90% of wax)

-------------------------------

1.00 ........ 16.00 oz (100% total scented wax)

That is a 16 oz. candle which is composed of 10% FO and 90% wax.

However, the above is not 1.6 oz.FO/PP of wax because we do not have 16 oz (1 pound) of wax in the whole, only 14.4 oz. 1.6 oz. FO is 10% of the 16 oz. whole, 100%

So to convert this to oz. PP, which is a proportional ratio and not a percentage, we'd have to increase the amount of wax to 1 pound or 16 oz (11.12% increase) and increase the FO (by the same amount) to 1.78 oz. The total weight of scented wax in the whole 100% would be 17.78 oz. So 10% FO PP of wax = 1.78 oz/PP.

Oz/PP is a proportional formula. For every pound (or 16 oz) of wax, we add 1 oz of FO, for a total of 17 ounces of scented wax. It is a ratio of 1:16. In this case, the "parts" are ounces. They could be grams, gallons or cubits - so long as they are all the same (or expressed as equivalents). To convert oz/PP to a percentage, we must divide 1 oz FO by the 17 oz. whole weight (100%), which is .0588 or 5.88% of the total, 100% whole.

The page below helped me explain this...

http://onestopcandle.com/candle/canmeasures.php

I checked the calculations with this:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

and this:

Aren't you sorry you asked, Horsescents?

Now can we please just use the online calculator? Or Georgia's formula? I don't wanna unnerstand no mo'...

BTW, THIS IS WHY, I either make 8 oz (.5 oz FO) or 12 oz. (.75 oz FO) or 16 oz. (1 oz. FO) or 32 oz. (2 oz. FO), etc. rather than try to make the exact amount to the drop. There is too much room for error for my comfort and brainpower. A million times I would rather have some extra wax left over than deal with all this!!!!! *faint* KISS

[HorseScentS]

.06 x 12 = .72 oz

.94 x 12 = 11.28 oz

----------------

100 ........ 12.00 oz

If you want 6% FO you want 94% wax. You total equals 100%

While I don't understand your math, (or most other math lol) I totally agree that "If you want 6% FO you want 94% wax. Your total equals 100%." So, to get a candle that is 94% wax and 6% FO, you have to calculate how much 6% FO weighs and then subtract that amount of wax before adding your FO, right?

I'm wondering if that was the original way to do it, but then it just seemed easier to add the FO without first subtracting an equal amount of wax, and then that caught on and became the most popular way that is seen on many candle-making websites.

[HorseScentS]

Here's where we're goin' astray, Horsescents...

You are mixing two different ways of expressing a formula:

percentage formula and proportional formula.

Per cent literally means per 100. Everything adds up to 100 (or a whole of 1)

In your example of 10% FO Load PP, 16 ounces is 100% of the total weight (wax + FO or scented wax). The kicker is to finish the question: 1.6 is 10% of WHAT? Answer = 16 ounces. 1.6 is 10% of 16 oz. But there is only 14.4 ounces of wax in this 16 ounce mixture, so we have a problem with the PP statement....

Georgia gave us a percentage formula above, which I have used for your figures of 10% of 16 total ounces of scented wax. (Which BTW, is a brilliantly EASY PEASY way to figure out how much of each you will need to make a specific amount of scented wax - CHOOSE THIS if you want to do your own calculating)

.10 x 16 = 1.6 oz (10% of 16 oz)

.90 x 16 = 14.4 oz (90% of wax)

-------------------------------

1.00 ........ 16.00 oz (100% total scented wax)

That is a 16 oz. candle which is composed of 10% FO and 90% wax.

However, the above is not 1.6 oz.FO/PP of wax because we do not have 16 oz (1 pound) of wax in the whole, only 14.4 oz. 1.6 oz. FO is 10% of the 16 oz. whole, 100%

So to convert this to oz. PP, which is a proportional ratio and not a percentage, we'd have to increase the amount of wax to 1 pound or 16 oz (11.12% increase) and increase the FO (by the same amount) to 1.78 oz. The total weight of scented wax in the whole 100% would be 17.78 oz. So 10% FO PP of wax = 1.78 oz/PP.

Oz/PP is a proportional formula. For every pound (or 16 oz) of wax, we add 1 oz of FO, for a total of 17 ounces of scented wax. It is a ratio of 1:16. In this case, the "parts" are ounces. They could be grams, gallons or cubits - so long as they are all the same (or expressed as equivalents). To convert oz/PP to a percentage, we must divide 1 oz FO by the 17 oz. whole weight (100%), which is .0588 or 5.88% of the total, 100% whole.

The page below helped me explain this...

http://onestopcandle.com/candle/canmeasures.php

I checked the calculations with this:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/percentcalc.htm

and this:

Aren't you sorry you asked, Horsescents?

Now can we please just use the online calculator? Or Georgia's formula? I don't wanna unnerstand no mo'...

BTW, THIS IS WHY, I either make 8 oz (.5 oz FO) or 12 oz. (.75 oz FO) or 16 oz. (1 oz. FO) or 32 oz. (2 oz. FO), etc. rather than try to make the exact amount to the drop. There is too much room for error for my comfort and brainpower. A million times I would rather have some extra wax left over than deal with all this!!!!! *faint* KISS

Okay, so it's a Proportional Formula, but the fact that we express it in terms of percentage, like 6%, instead of ratios, creates the mistaken idea it's a Percentage Formula instead of a proportional formula, right?

I can just use either the calculator, or Georgia's formula, but they are not the same, since the calculator is a proportional formula and Georgia's is a percentage formula, right? To recap: Georgia says that if you want to use 6% FO, you want a candle that is 94% wax and 6% FO for a total of 100%, so she's using a Percentage Formula instead of the Proportional Formula. I guess I should just pick one. LOL

But, thanks to you, Stella, I now know the difference between the Proportional Formula and the Percentage Formula. At least I now have a working vocabulary for further debate!

Now, all I need to know is which one of those formulas is the best way to do it and why?

*dead horse*

Yes, I see that the Proportional Formula is the commonly accepted formula, but there seems to be a lot of Percentage Formula fans too. Who's candles are the most awesome? And who's method is the most efficient to employ when calculating? measuring? pouring? pricing?

Edited November 5, 2011 by HorsescentS

[rjdaines]

Not subtracting out (removing) the wax weight due to the added FO doesn't lead to huge errors and if you are consistent with your math/candle making it doesn't matter. However, it does mean that when you tell someone that you use 6% of a FO what you are really mean is that you are using 5.8%. Is it a big deal, I don't think so.

[LadyJo]

My head hurts now.

[EccoLights]

I would rather have some extra wax left over than deal with all this!!!!! *faint* KISS

Can we get an AMEN to this???? This brings up another good topic now tho, what does everyone do with the little extras and bits from our batches? But that will be discussed in a new topic =)

Off to numb my brain now, I think I smell smoke tho...

[brown5052]

I made a excel spreadsheet that basically all I have to do is put in the amount of an item that I want to make and I then get the amounts of wax, fragrance oil and dye that I should use. I tried to find away to upload it here, but can't. The spreadsheet was made for my use and if anyone would like to see if it would work for them, they can email me and I'll send a copy that way. I color coded it and put in a few instructions to help, but I'm not the best teacher. So if your confused, you can get in touch and I'll try to explain better. This spreadsheet has saved me so much time and once I got it set up, I don't even have to think about it.

[Georgia]

[quote name=HorsescentS;931340....I can just use either the calculator' date=' or Georgia's formula, but they are not the same, since the calculator is a proportional formula and Georgia's is a percentage formula, right? To recap: Georgia says that if you want to use 6% FO, you want a candle that is 94% wax and 6% FO for a total of 100%, so she's using a Percentage Formula instead of the Proportional Formula. I guess I should just pick one. LOL

But, thanks to you, Stella, I now know the difference between the Proportional Formula and the Percentage Formula. At least I now have a working vocabulary for further debate! ...

Now, all I need to know is which one of those formulas is the best way to do it and why?

I don't know why you think they are not the same. In the calculator put in "what is 6% of 12" and you will get .72. Multiply .06 X 12 and you will get .72

[Stella1952]

What is the question, HS? Are you unclear about how much of something to use? Ask the question if you cannot figure it out, but you've been supplied with everything it takes to figure up the quantities for a batch of wax.

[ChandlerWicks]

I'd love to have your spreadsheet! TIA Tracey I'll send you my email by PM.

I made a excel spreadsheet that basically all I have to do is put in the amount of an item that I want to make and I then get the amounts of wax, fragrance oil and dye that I should use. I tried to find away to upload it here, but can't. The spreadsheet was made for my use and if anyone would like to see if it would work for them, they can email me and I'll send a copy that way. I color coded it and put in a few instructions to help, but I'm not the best teacher. So if your confused, you can get in touch and I'll try to explain better. This spreadsheet has saved me so much time and once I got it set up, I don't even have to think about it.