Newbie expectations.

[Angelique]

I started out stirring for two minutes.... would set the timer on my microwave. Then I got tired of stirring for so long so I stopped. Now I put the fragrance oil in and stir for probably 10 or 15 seconds. I will usually (but not always) stir again about half way through the cooling process before I pour. I haven't noticed any difference in the great throw from when I stirred for two full minutes and now stirring for 10-15 seconds.

Jo

Same here, I never saw the difference, i stir for about 10-15 seconds with a big whisk, never had an issue with oil settling etc, great hot throw and thats the way i did it for years, 10-15 seconds tops. Guess it matters on personal preference

Edited August 31, 2011 by Angelique

[lilcountrymama]

Great results is what you make of it. Being new to candle making I think your expectations is very high just starting and filling an area with scent is a great result but you do always aim higher.remember the fo you are using may not be as strong as others if your not getting the results you want.maybe try ordering the scent from a different supplier. Just work on your candle making skills before you expect to just duplicate a product. I think it took everyone a long time to get where they are but I'm just saying 4627 is a very easy wax to work with and for me had an awesome scent throw. I use to use this wax in the apothecary jars and when I had family and friends test my candles before I sold they always had positive feedback saying the candle was able tpbfill the house I probably sound like I'm babbling maybe lack of sleep I would also try zinc wicks they worked for me anyways

[debratant]

horsescents...you are probably right...it may be 9%...but I suck at math so 8/9, it's all good.

as far as recommending the 126, I have much sucess with that size in my jars. For me...the 1212 and the 1312 are

like flamethrowers.

Tom is using 4627 Comfort Blend in his jars...not 4625 pillar (which he had sucess with) or 4630. Just wanted to clarify that because it makes a difference when recommending wicking.

lilcountrymama...I may try some zincs out soon too. Had issues with mushrooming though, in the past, but may try

them again just because I can lol.

Edited September 1, 2011 by debratant

[lilcountrymama]

I never had a mushrooming problem unless I used them with heavier fos when I had heavier fos like most bakery scents I used cds and they worked well

[HorseScentS]

Great results is what you make of it. Being new to candle making I think your expectations is very high just starting and filling an area with scent is a great result but you do always aim higher.remember the fo you are using may not be as strong as others if your not getting the results you want.maybe try ordering the scent from a different supplier. Just work on your candle making skills before you expect to just duplicate a product. I think it took everyone a long time to get where they are but I'm just saying 4627 is a very easy wax to work with and for me had an awesome scent throw. I use to use this wax in the apothecary jars and when I had family and friends test my candles before I sold they always had positive feedback saying the candle was able tpbfill the house I probably sound like I'm babbling maybe lack of sleep I would also try zinc wicks they worked for me anyways

Lately I'm thinking I will just make candles that I like, instead of worrying about what sells, and I lilke a nice big candle container, so I'm leaning towards the 16 oz apothecary jar with 4627 Comfort Blend wax. I've only used zincs so far, but will try the HTP wicks too. I hope I can single wick those big jars. I know my friends and fam will love the big jars. And when I went to the Yan___ store, I asked the clerk what size candle they sell the most of, and she said the big 22 oz apothecary jar is their biggest seller. So, there is a market for the big ones, especially if I learn how to make mine as good, or better, for a lower price.

[rjwhite6]

If you can't get a single wick to work, you might try 2CD5's as a starting point.

[Angelique]

I never had a mushrooming problem unless I used them with heavier fos when I had heavier fos like most bakery scents I used cds and they worked well

lilcountrymomma, do you prefer the zinc with 4627 over CD's? I am currently testing the CD 18's in the 16 oz pint mason jars and they are working wonderfully, even with the heavier oils, and even slightly better then the htp's. I noticed that not many are using cd's with the 4627 so i was wondering what your opinion is. I have been a 4786 user since the beginning but am hooked on 4627 fully now, and cd's were always my favorite wick, so I just started combining the two the other day and I am loving it so far, well so far, who knows as it burns down. (fingers crossed)

[lilcountrymama]

I think between the two I liked the cds better I was able to use a single wick in the apothecary jars with no problem I got the same results with hot throw with both wicks but I noticed that with certain fos the.Zincs would mushroom and smoke slightly but as a beginner Zincs are great to start with for this wax when I started in 07 I bought my wicks from lonestar I used the cd 10's

[lilcountrymama]

Ps let me know how the burn goes

[Snuff Gear]

Don't jump from HTP 105 to HTP 126, do a Internet search for the Atkins and Peace Wick site and look at the rates of consumption and flame height. HTP 126 is at the top, you'd be better off trying HTP 1212 or HTP 1312. Going right to HTP-126 will not make you happy.

The 1312 did work much better than the 126.

[robertgibbens]

Having taken several chemistry classes in college, I can tell you that there is NO binding beyond a particle of wax in the vicinity of a particle of oil. There is no chemical reaction. Its the same for the color. How many stirs around the pot does it take for your color to mix? 1 or 2 and its mixed. The scent is the same. But to each his or her own I say. That all having been said, I do believe that the more wax your working with, the longer you need to stir. I can see 15 seconds for 1 lb, but I would not say it is enough for a 20 lb mix. Maybe this is where all these divergent opinions are coming from?

[robertgibbens]

Is there a way not to get a flame thrower when using larger than an HTP-105? Maybe those wicks are just for huge candles but I have tried them to avoid a double wick and the flame was crazy nuts (but the s'mores were excellent!).

[Stella1952]

Lately I'm thinking I will just make candles that I like, instead of worrying about what sells

There is wisdom to this, Horsescents. When we try to please everyone, we end up in a chaotic state. Do what pleases you most and your results will be better automatically. Some customers will want something else, and fortunately for all of us, there are other people out there to give that to them. You will develop customers who appreciate similar candles as you do and they will become the heart and soul of your business.

[debratant]

The 1312 did work much better than the 126.

Interesting Tom, how was the flame? meltpool? I've never had luck with the larger wick, but may have to revisit that

again.

[Angelique]

Ps let me know how the burn goes

I will

[HorseScentS]

There is wisdom to this, Horsescents. When we try to please everyone, we end up in a chaotic state. Do what pleases you most and your results will be better automatically. Some customers will want something else, and fortunately for all of us, there are other people out there to give that to them. You will develop customers who appreciate similar candles as you do and they will become the heart and soul of your business.

Thank you, Stella! I will also have more fun and enthusiasm doing what I like to do. Isn't that the whole point of art?

[Snuff Gear]

Interesting Tom, how was the flame? meltpool? I've never had luck with the larger wick, but may have to revisit that

again.

Well, the 104, 105, and 126 never did reach a full melt pool. The 1312 took about 5 hours to reach full pool. Flame was actually nice, not too big for the size jar, although the wick needed trimming every few hours and it mushroomed quite a bit. I let it burn for 11 hours and lost exactly 1/2 inch of wax. Next up...same candle with more fo.

ps: 1312 needs to be trimmed real low in my candle to prevent big flame and smoking.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Snuff Gear

[TallTayl]

Having taken several chemistry classes in college, I can tell you that there is NO binding beyond a particle of wax in the vicinity of a particle of oil. There is no chemical reaction. Its the same for the color. How many stirs around the pot does it take for your color to mix? 1 or 2 and its mixed. The scent is the same. But to each his or her own I say. That all having been said, I do believe that the more wax your working with, the longer you need to stir. I can see 15 seconds for 1 lb, but I would not say it is enough for a 20 lb mix. Maybe this is where all these divergent opinions are coming from?

From a physics perspective, the particles being blended during candlemaking are of different molecular weights. The stirring helps to create a homogenous blend (an emulsified product if you will) of those particles so they remain in suspension throughout the entire cool down during crystal development of the candle. This is another reason why many people have developed a process of stirring between pours when making many candles in a session.

Have you ever noticed how some heavier fragrances tend to settle out or are otherwise difficult to blend at 'normal' temperatures? For instance, Candy Corn remains pooled toward the bottom of the pour pot at the wax manufacturer's mix temp of 180 for the waxes I use. It is an easy oil to notice the issues because of the color. How many FO's do not have a noticeable color against molten wax? Mixing vigorously for several minutes helps to emulsify those 'blobs' of oil that otherwise would settle to the bottom of the container candle (which would result in a potentially very dangerous candle toward the end of the burn). Just because it is not easily visible to the eye does not mean the larger blobs aren't there.

Color may look blended because of the similarity of particulates that comprise the media. Especially true if using wax chips - wax blends with and suspends wax better than wax to oil.

If one should ever have a candle that is in question for causing a fire in a customer's home your insurance provider will assuredly investigate your production methods. Ignoring manufacturer's published directions because a couple of chemistry classes made you think it was ok will provide absolutely no protection against liability.

IMO physics trumps chemistry in the logic behind candle making. (I am a chemist with a physics background BTW).

[rjdaines]

OK chemists. please explain why some waxes have better hot throw than others? If these is no major binding going on, how does a wax trap a FO? Does all this really just go back to the temp of the melt pool and the evaporation of the FO?

[HorseScentS]

From a physics perspective, the particles being blended during candlemaking are of different molecular weights. The stirring helps to create a homogenous blend (an emulsified product if you will) of those particles so they remain in suspension throughout the entire cool down during crystal development of the candle. This is another reason why many people have developed a process of stirring between pours when making many candles in a session.

Have you ever noticed how some heavier fragrances tend to settle out or are otherwise difficult to blend at 'normal' temperatures? For instance, Candy Corn remains pooled toward the bottom of the pour pot at the wax manufacturer's mix temp of 180 for the waxes I use. It is an easy oil to notice the issues because of the color. How many FO's do not have a noticeable color against molten wax? Mixing vigorously for several minutes helps to emulsify those 'blobs' of oil that otherwise would settle to the bottom of the container candle (which would result in a potentially very dangerous candle toward the end of the burn). Just because it is not easily visible to the eye does not mean the larger blobs aren't there.

Color may look blended because of the similarity of particulates that comprise the media. Especially true if using wax chips - wax blends with and suspends wax better than wax to oil.

If one should ever have a candle that is in question for causing a fire in a customer's home your insurance provider will assuredly investigate your production methods. Ignoring manufacturer's published directions because a couple of chemistry classes made you think it was ok will provide absolutely no protection against liability.

IMO physics trumps chemistry in the logic behind candle making. (I am a chemist with a physics background BTW).

Brilliant comment! Thank you! I'm interested in what you said about the temperature too, because even though I now stir hard for at least 2 minutes, I am wondering how high a temperature will work for the hard-to-mix FOs? I was told to go up to 200, 215, and 250, but that's not safe so I'd rather do it much lower.

[robertgibbens]

Where is there a manufacturers published direction on making candles? My FO does not say stir for X minutes....

[Stella1952]

Check the TDS or Handling sheet for the wax you are using at the manufacturer's site. HTH

Edited September 2, 2011 by Stella1952

[lmc]

From my experience-and this is testing with CBA soy-the HTP126 burns slower, tamer, and cooler than the HTP1212. HTP1212 produced much hotter and higher flame. Worked really well in 16 oz canning jars

[Faerywren]

There are a few on here who swear by using only 1 oz of FO per pound of wax, but most use at least 8% or 9%. I can't get any HT only using 1 oz per pound. Sometimes I think everyone is secretly using 12% but they don't want anyone else to know that, so they say they use 6%. :laugh2:

I only use 1 oz per pound. Really. I don't want to be fiddling with different measurements for different FO's. I use a 62% soy 38% paraffin blend. I tested 2 candles yesterday that had only cured about 36 hours. Alabaster's Magnolia and Candlemakers Store Mint Field were very, very strong. I DO stir for over a minute so I'm sure that has something to do with it. LOL.

[rjdaines]

I will test at 6% and adjust upwards if necessary.