Re Purposing Containers

[comfortscents]

Fairy wren posted a thread here before the site went down about repurposing containers and I can't find the original thread but I guess it was an unpopular choice...I use repurposed containers for about 70% of my candles. I just bought 4 pieces of Hull pottery that I will be pouring wax into this week....I will make one for myself initially to get an idea of how many wicks to use, how much of a melt pool I will get and if there will be much waste. My vintage key wind coffee cans sell out immediately...I also have a waiting list for them. I picked up 3 at an indoor flea market and one cost me $15.00 but the customer is willing to pay a premium price....the one lb can holds about 3lbs of wax because of the "foam". Jay reinforces the seams, and on the cans where I include a top of the can and the key the finished candle will sell for $40.00. Since I started

making candles I've only had 1 (that I know of) container break and it was a bowl from Walmart and of course it was a blueberry candle and stained the customer's rug. What makes repurposing containers for candles so unpopular? I have a large vintage sheep container that I call the boomerang sheep...I fill it with clean cotton, linen or downy...every time the customer empties the sheep she asks for refills. It's not even pottery, in it's former life I would guess it was a floral vase, which, by the way, I hit up florists after every holiday that involves flowers and buy leftover containers. For the school fundraiser I'm doing I'm doing lantern jars from home depot for my large candles and mason jars for my small ones...the lantern jars make great presentations.

[Misty]

I guess my biggest reason for not reusing containers is that I don't know what they been through. If they have been dropped or bumped, there could be a hidden fracture that could cause a break at a time when the wax is melted and hot. Also, with vintage or used, you are kind of guessing about wicking. When you order candle specific containers, you can test them.

[SliverOfWax]

I'm assuming by "repurposing", you mean reusing old, dirty jars?

lol

Like Misty said, the integrity of the jar could be compromised.

Not to mention it would be over my dead body I would do all that testing. If I can't get hundreds and hundreds of the same jar, I'm not bothering to test. What a waste of wax to test a jar you'll only have 2 or 3 or a dozen of.

[Wessex]

One word - liability.

Judge: Is the container made for use as a candle container?

Me: No.

Judge: Is the container a new, uncompromised container?

Me: It looked OK.

Judge: Judgement for the plaintiff!

That's what I would not want to deal with.

Cheers,

Steve

[EricofAZ]

Be careful about pottery. The clay tends to soak up the wax and wick it leading to fires.

[comfortscents]

I'm assuming by "repurposing", you mean reusing old, dirty jars?

lol

Like Misty said, the integrity of the jar could be compromised.

Not to mention it would be over my dead body I would do all that testing. If I can't get hundreds and hundreds of the same jar, I'm not bothering to test. What a waste of wax to test a jar you'll only have 2 or 3 or a dozen of.

hhhhmmm I'm a liability freak but I still don't think I would stop using them. For me using mason jar after mason jar would be like the movie groundhog day...it took me forever to type this response, just bought a new laptop and I've forgotten how to type on a regular keyboard..

[WillowBoo]

There's nothing nicer than a flickering candle in a suitable vintage container (THAT'S NOT DIRTY - AS I'M SURE COMFORTSCENTS WOULDN'T USE). Just underwick for safety reasons. And mark on the container, this vase has not been approved for candle use, or something to that effect to alert the customer they are burning at their own risk.

[Candybee]

If you have to label the candle 'this vase has not been approved for candle use' that defeats the whole purpose of making and selling it as a candle and opens up the door for a whole lot of litigation. In other words, don't put that on your label.

I say use common sense about your containers. If you are uncertain about it being used safely as a candle container don't use it. I would test the container to determine its suitability as a candle container. No reason a vintage container can't be used. You do have to keep in mind that if the vintage container is glass that you are reusing it may very well have stress fractures that you cannot see. That is the nature of glass and you don't know what it has been exposed to so you need to use with caution. At the very least you should have hard copy proof that you tested and analized the container before using as a candle holder or candle container.

[SliverOfWax]

There's nothing nicer than a flickering candle in a suitable vintage container (THAT'S NOT DIRTY - AS I'M SURE COMFORTSCENTS WOULDN'T USE). Just underwick for safety reasons. And mark on the container, this vase has not been approved for candle use, or something to that effect to alert the customer they are burning at their own risk.

LMAO.

Warning: This candle is underwicked and will probably tunnel and the flame will eventually sputter out. Before this happens, it could explode and flying bits of glass will put out the eyes of your kids and pets. You are a complete fool to purchase this so-called candle and an even bigger fool to set it on fire.

I can't seem to find the emoticons. Use your imagination and insert the one of the little blob tiptoeing off the page.

[comfortscents]

I don't think it's a black and white issue, if I'm at a craft show (which I almost never am) three other sellers besides myself selling candles in mason jars, what separates me from the other three? Everyone is using quality wax and oils so the field is even.....where does the customer plop down her $5.00? you are also assuming I'm only repurposing glass....I also use vintage tins, crystal dresser jars as well as pottery and glass. Why have more faith in a jar from dollar tree? Next time you have some leftover container wax, wick a bone china cup, you'll be surprised, that's where all my leftover wax goes and for the most part I just poured them for myself in the beginning but am amazed how well they hold up. Lead crystal is fabulous for containers.

[HorseScentS]

Lead crystal is fabulous for containers.

When I inquired about using lead crystal for containers I was told that the lead makes them overheat & they're too fragile, you're not even supposed to wash crystal in hot water, only warm.

[comfortscents]

Ps candyboo: Thank you I do wash my mason jars because I use them to hold paper clips, rubber bands, stray dye blocks and my strawberry jams oh and sometimes wax. I never said I didn't use them I just prefer not to whenever possible.

[comfortscents]

When I inquired about using lead crystal for containers I was told that the lead makes them overheat & they're too fragile, you're not even supposed to wash crystal in hot water, only warm.

Really? Now I will admit that I broke two Waterford wine glasses when I did my every 6 month cleaning out of my china closet, the glasses broke as I was drying them, but the lead crystal I've used and some that are awaiting wax are thick, I have one little rectangular box that Holds about 2oz of wax...I've poured and repoured that dresser jar at least 50 times for myself and it's on my work table now waiting for my next container pour with leftover wax. I just wick it with a single votive wick

[HorseScentS]

Really? Now I will admit that I broke two Waterford wine glasses when I did my every 6 month cleaning out of my china closet, the glasses broke as I was drying them, but the lead crystal I've used and some that are awaiting wax are thick, I have one little rectangular box that Holds about 2oz of wax...I've poured and repoured that dresser jar at least 50 times for myself and it's on my work table now waiting for my next container pour with leftover wax. I just wick it with a single votive wick

Interesting. I thought thickness would help too, but I was also told that thick glass shatters when it gets too hot. I wonder how Soy-Beam Candles gets away with filling any & all kinds of containers that people bring in. I don't see how they know what wick to use without testing.

[Candybee]

Not sure what you are responding to. I did not post anything about washing jars. My only caution was to be careful if you do use any glass containers as they may contain stress fractures. I think using vintage containers is a cool idea.

[comfortscents]

Sorry, meant willow boo. I also forgot to mention that I also use lots of enamelware, lots and lots of enamel I pick pieces up everywhere in fact that's mostly what I buy from florists after the holidays

[SliverOfWax]

I don't think it's a black and white issue, if I'm at a craft show (which I almost never am) three other sellers besides myself selling candles in mason jars, what separates me from the other three? Everyone is using quality wax and oils so the field is even.....where does the customer plop down her $5.00? you are also assuming I'm only repurposing glass....

You can't possibly be serious.

Do you honestly think that because 3 different candlemakers all have, oh, say, pick a scent.....Amber Romance.....in masons that all 3 candles are created equal?

You can't possibly be serious.

Newsflash: There are many suppliers who carry Amber Romance (pick a scent, any scent). They all smell and perform differently. There are many, many kinds of wax. They all perform differently. There are God knows how many types and sizes of wicks. They all perform differently.

Yet you think that regardless of how the candle was made, the FO load used, etc etc, that all 3 Amber Romance candles are equal simply because they're all 3 in mason jars?

Wow.

Just wow!

P.S. My masons are $10.00.

:rolleyes2

[Stella1952]

Glass, in particular, is impossible to detect stresses in without special equipment. Some canning containers will be bad out of the box, as anyone who has actually canned can validate. Put a dozen brand new containers in the rack in a water bath to sterilize and one, not infrequently, hears a particular "pop" which means one of the jars has cracked, usually along the bottom. Never used before; no obvious signs of chipping, cracking or stress. It just happens. It's a manufacturing defect.

Heat/cold cause stresses in glass that are NOT apparent to the eye. Thickness of glass is no guarantee that it can withstand repeated hot/cold exposures. In fact, thick glass is sometimes MORE prone to cracking because it can't expand and contract as quickly as thinner glass. Glass is made from many different ingredients and formulas. It is annealed (reheated to a point just below the melt point of the particular glass) to relieve manufacturing stresses, then cooled again slowly. Glass which has been improperly annealed is prone to stress fracture. It doesn't even have to be subjected to ANY thermal stress - it can fracture just sitting there looking pretty. I know this for a fact: I slump and fuse glass.

Waterford IS lead crystal, dear.

http://www.wwcares.com/Article.cfm?PageID=42397487

Lead is used to make crystal glassware. The traditional industry standards (not defined by law) are that glass has to contain 24% lead to be called "crystal." Not all manufacturers adhere to this standard, so caveat emptor. The Waterford company makes high quality crystal. For more information on lead used in glassware, read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110303223309AAGZdO0

The lead content has nothing to do with the reason one should not use lead crystal for candlemaking. The reason is that most of it is not manufactured to meet or exceed ASTM standards for candle glassware. It isn't formulated to withstand anything other than normal thermal stresses. One doesn't put crystal in the dishwasher because the detergent will etch the glass and the heat of most dishwashers is too high for delicate crystal. There are SOME lead crystal items that are manufactured to ASTM standards for candlemaking, but the vast majority are not.

I know I'm getting into the TMI Zone here - which is WHY one should never sell "repurposed" glass to the general public. The liability is huge because of sheer ignorance on the part of the chandler AND the customer. Unless one is willing to learn WAY more about glassmaking than they EVER wanted to know (and carry substantial liability insurance to CYA), use NEW glass that is manufactured to meet or exceed ASTM standards for candle glass (and carry substantial liability insurance to CYA). Not wine drinking glass; not decorative glass - candlemaking glass.

Sure, I refill containers for my own use, and sure, I refill containers for my BEST friend who has demonstrated she possesses and applies common sense when burning candles. Other than that, I wouldn't refill or reuse glass to sell or give away to the public for any reason because I cannot verify what that glass container has been through in its life. Even canning glass has a finite life. Even Pyrex (sodium borosilicate glass) has a finite number of times it can be heated and cooled before the inevitable occurs (it's okay to ask me how I know about Pyrex 'cause I've finally gotten over the cleanup of the baked beans with the wicked glass shards in them, and the floor, and the oven and the oven racks...). I also refill my favorite china, ceramic and concrete containers, but I wouldn't do it for anyone else. I am careful about how I burn candles. I can GUARANTEE that most of my acquaintances and customers are not.

While ceramic containers have different properties from glass, they are still subject to thermal stress cracking. Same thing applies - the liability is not worth it. Metal has never been a good choice to me for candles - it gets HOT. Heat can destroy the painting and designs on vintage tins, rendering them useless as collectibles.

Many chandlers do not inform their customers that their glassware is used. I'd sue over that one if I had a problem and I'd win a hefty settlement. I would not buy a candle that was not poured in new glassware even if there was a sign stating that the glassware was reused. If that container failed and caused a fire or damage to my property, the deductible would be one heckuva lot more than the price I paid for that candle, not to mention I am taking a chance on losing my favorite stuff. It NEVER pays to be cavalier about safety with a product that has an open flame.

Making candles is not simply about making "cute" products that people will buy - it's first and foremost about making SAFE products. This is WHY, despite good manufacturing methods and materials, warning labels and public service educational information, there are still thousands of fires caused every year by candles.

Each chandler can and will make their own decisions about the containers they use, but pouring candles in used glass or other containers for sale to the public is NOT a good business practice, either for the chandler or the customer. Poor craftsmanship (and pouring into used containers which do not meet ASTM standards IS poor craftsmanship) reflects on us ALL. This is WHY I don't set up at craft shows any more. I'm picky about who I drink with and I'm picky about who I sell with. I don't want my products set up near those of others who DON'T take candlemaking seriously and are simply interested in selling "stuff." I don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Stella1952

[NaturallyTru]

yell at me if you really want to; but I believe:

recycle, reuse, reduce is essential today

Trudi

[comfortscents]

You can't possibly be serious.

Do you honestly think that because 3 different candlemakers all have, oh, say, pick a scent.....Amber Romance.....in masons that all 3 candles are created equal?

You can't possibly be serious.

Newsflash: There are many suppliers who carry Amber Romance (pick a scent, any scent). They all smell and perform differently. There are many, many kinds of wax. They all perform differently. There are God knows how many types and sizes of wicks. They all perform differently.

Yet you think that regardless of how the candle was made, the FO load used, etc etc, that all 3 Amber Romance candles are equal simply because they're all 3 in mason jars?

Wow.

Just wow!

P.S. My masons are $10.00.

:rolleyes2

So you and 2 other members of this board (pick 2 any 2) you line up your masons jars side by side and I buy yours? Is there a genuflecting emoticon?

We can't all be Madame Tussand...

[comfortscents]

yell at me if you really want to; but I believe:

recycle, reuse, reduce is essential today

Trudi

Exactly my point

[B@BlissStreet]

Exactly my point[/quote

Agree. I don't re-use the candle grade mason or standard jelly jars for customer re-use, however, I do offer an incentive to the recyclers: return my glassware for testing usage and receive a 10% discount on the same product as sized jars that are returned. Many of my customers return these, and don't accept the discount. I even have customers that return the clamshells gratis; they think I can recycle them, but I don't consider it unless it is labeled with a fragrance I am pouring and I use it for leftovers for PU. But I have purchased fancy candles in non-conventional containers and had them be amazing. I think it that it would be a good policy to not rule Ann Marie's work as dangerous without actually testing it yourself. just sayin'

[NaturallyTru]

My wholesale accounts offer .50 on a new candle for returned jars. Not many have brought them back though.

Impact clamshells are recyclable under PVC#3

Trudi

Edited April 18, 2011 by NaturallyTru

[NaturallyTru]

Exactly my point[/quote

But I have purchased fancy candles in non-conventional containers and had them be amazing. I think it that it would be a good policy to not rule Ann Marie's work as dangerous without actually testing it yourself. just sayin'

I agree.

[B@BlissStreet]

Trudi,

I got your post, but others may not. ComfortScents did NOT post the quote about purchasing non-conventional candles. Please, board users, don't slam her again...this was my post that the board didn't forward justly. I love when crafters are willing to make a deciscion, try a product. Testing may be key, but innovation is what keeps business in business. If Ann Marie's successes make others uncomfortable, so be it. She is confident, extremely talented, and adequately insured! Back off to the haters. Given any product, I could find a flaw, where many would find multiple flaws. Are you looking for a quality product, or looking for a product that meets your pre-existing standards? That's not innovation, that's duplication. Give credit where credit is due.