Anyone going to stop selling Palm Wax candles?

[Traveler]

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide whether or not to keep selling glass glow palm wax candles in the coming year. (I am still working my way through the last batch of wax I have on hand.)

What with the negative posting about it on Candlescience I am now wondering if other vendors are going to be dropping it as well....and also wondering if other chandlers are going to keep it or not?

I am not overly fond of soy wax for multiple reasons (one small reason being that straight soy wax at an outdoor craft show in Florida is just...well...NOT a thing of beauty, ok?)

I fell in love with Palm Wax once I figured it out. Kinda like trying to figure out men and then suddenly realizing, "Oh. Wait. I don't have to figure out men. They really are straightforward after all! Palm wax is pretty straightforward like that, too!"

But now I am torn. I feel like I have to "Break Up" with this really great wax because it's origins are now completely suspect.

Is there any palm wax out there from a reliable source and I just haven't found it yet? Has anyone here had customers get upset with them for selling palm oil based candles? (I also see some soapers are starting to develop recipes that don't use palm oil in response to the negative information coming out about palm oil and deforestation).

Just looking for input - hope everyone is selling like crazy right now!!

Traveler

[Faerywren]

Cool Whip dessert topping is made from palm oil, but people aren't boycotting that. It seems to be soap and candle makers that are feeling the sting of the palm oil/wax debate.

[Wessex]

I've spent way too much time and money testing Palm to give it up. As far as CS dropping it for environmental reasons...I still think it was a smokescreen, given the problems with their last supply (just an uninformed opinion). All waxes have trade offs with environmental issues, you will never get a perfect environmental solution. I think some of the palm oil problems are being blown out of proportion, just like "bad" paraffin and "processed" soy. You can't please everyone.

So, no, I am not going to go away from palm wax anytime soon.

Cheers,

Steve

[lovemylabs]

We have decided not to continue w Palm. Many here have already been through the testing phase and have a customer base w Palm. For us, we were still in the testing phase and was so excited when we were narrowing in on the right wicks with the right oils, and right jars, yada yada yada. And then the whole CS thing happened with wrong wax shipments. When we got our "wrong wax", that did it for us. They are beautiful, and I love them, but when that happened and there was the rush to see which supplier had it and then the scare of "would it be the same". Now had we invested alot of time and money in our testing...we would probably have continued. But, we had decided to pull out and focus on soy and paraffin and a blend. Our decision had nothing to do with CS's reason for dropping it. As for the environment, good grief...who knows. Five years from now they'll come up with something else that's dangerours, damaging, etc. I'm just gonna keep pushing forward and if my customer base keeps growing...then I'm on the right track. If I've hit a wall then back to the think tank.

Edited December 7, 2010 by lovemylabs

[Candybee]

I love the wax and as Wessex pointed out there are environmental issues with soy and parrafin waxes as well as palm. My customers love this wax and how it performs. I don't intend to discontinue because one supplier decides to quit carrying it for 'environmental' issues. Give me a break! :rolleyes2

[LuminousBoutique]

I hope people keep doing it. I am anti-palm, I fully admit that, but as I've mentioned before and others have mentioned, candles and soap makers are a tiny drop in the bucket.

cleaners and food are the real issue, and glass glow isnt a blip on the radar, really. Obviously I support CS in their decision but here's hoping for all of you that some other suppliers start carrying it.

[Debbie73]

Palm wax is all that I use. I have invested a lot of time and money in testing this wax and do not intend to start over with something else. I used to order my palm wax from CS, but if I can get the same thing elsewhere, I'll be a happy camper.

Start reading the ingredients on products in the grocery store, you will be amazed at how much palm oil is being used. I never gave any thought to it until CS made it's claim.

[EricofAZ]

I have no plans on stopping. They make nice candles and I don't produce very many of them. For the most part, I find that they work best with EO's so maybe the way to spin it is to explain to anyone concerned that I don't use it as an ordinary every day item, but for special applications with limited production and special use. For the ordinary daily candles, the pillars and containers can be mottling paraffin or the appropriate IGI wax with multi colored dyes, etc.

[sparky38351]

So where is everyone ordering from now that CS isn't carrying it soon?

[lovemylabs]

When we got our bad batch and went searching, we ended up buying a sample bag from Aztec to test. I also found it at Peaks, The Candlemakers Store and Candlewic (I believe that's right), but Aztec was closer to us.

[Candybee]

The container palm at Candlewic is crystal palm container wax. It is not glass glow palm and behaves and crystalizes different than gg. If you are looking for another supplier in the PA area for gg you can get it at Candles and Supplies in Quakertown, PA www.candlesandsupplies.com

[Wessex]

I've been getting mine from Aztec. So far it is the cheapest for me.

Cheers,

Steve

[brudil18]

Too much time spent with GG to give it up. Besides I have many customers who are loyal because I use the wax. So NO, I will not discontinue using. As someone mentioned before, you can find an envronmental reason for just about anything. Cows farting was a big deal a while back and who knows if it still is or not.

I get my gg from Candles and Supplies now. It's more expensive than what CS sold it for, but CS I believe got it direct from the manufacturer. where Candles and Supplies goes through IGI to get theirs. I drive to pick up my orders now and find the tank gas I spend is cheaper than the shipping I use to pay from CS. In the end it has been a wash as far as an expense is concerned.

I'm with Steve on this though, I love this wax and won't stop using it.

[Traveler]

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me. I think I am just a wee bit worn out from all of the "Go Green" rhetoric that I find myself dealing with from customers these days.

So much of this move to a healthier environment is still in its infancy and I find that we really don't know what "Green" is...(We just had the local news stations going crazy over the reusable shopping bags that grocery stores sell for .99 cents as "Green" because they are made from recycled materials....turns out one of those recycled materials is lead! LOL! Hand smacking forehead.)

Well, I shall mull it over a bit more. I have only one line of candles in palm at this point. But it took a year to get it right...and testing new fragrances is time and $$. Maybe I'll just hold steady for awhile longer and see how things develop with my customer base during the first half of 2011. (Who knows? CS could start promoting wax made from Acorns or recycled tires or something really fun :-)

Good to know a lot of you are holding steady.

Thanks again - it was helpful!

[pcbrook]

I plan on continuing using glass glow and feather palm also until there is no way I can possibly get it. I got my last bag from Peaks. Their price is a little higher but I come out about even with the shipping.

I know one thing, I don't think I will ever go back to straight soy. Too finicky for me.

[Desertrose]

We are going to continue selling our palm products.

The information I've read says 50 % of all supermarket products contain palm oil which may or may not be from sustainable sources. In fact it seems that here in Australia they don't even need to list the products containing palm...it can fall under the description of 'vegetable oil".

Better labeling of products is needed if people are going to make any sort of properly informed choice.

It's crazy to target candles alone, if people are really going to take the issue seriously, when in fact they may be buying products containing palm on a much more regular basis without even being aware of it, AND which might be from sources where there IS negative environmental impact.

[donna4909]

I still have a little palm left from CS, but once it's gone, I'll probably try Aztec. They're within driving distance for me... I'm just disappointed that they don't have the crystallizing container wax too.

[Stella1952]

Nope. Palm wax is good stuff. I'm gonna use it.

I know the politics and environmental issues need improvement, but the palm wax market is a fraction of the problem. A well-balanced report on some of the basic issues, organizations and global corporations involved can be read at http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LC04Ae01.html .

For those determined to boycott companies and products, please be aware that Cargill is a major player in the worldwide distribution of palm oil. Most of US palm oil comes from Cargill. For those who do not know, Elevance, who distributes NatureWax C3, a popular soy wax, is partnered with Cargill. Of the 39 edible products listed on the Golden Brands website, 23 contain palm oil. Golden Brands is the world's largest supplier of palm shortening flakes.

People need to understand that Big Veggie Oil is just as powerful as Big Petroleum Oil and the games they play are just as dirty. Boycotting palm wax is silly when veggie oil giants like Cargill, Golden Brands, ADM, etc. are responsible for many (if not most!) of the palm oil problems in Indonesia & Malaysia. Those same companies manufacture the OTHER veggie waxes and oils we use in candle, soap and personal care products applications.

So, if you're gonna boycott palm wax for environmental reasons, you had better also boycott soy waxes and other veggie oils used because they are all part and parcel of huge conglomerate corporations who drive and control the veggie oil market.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Stella1952

[Candybee]

For those that aren't aware Cargill has a serious foothold in South American countries as well stripping the land, displacing local farmers and their families that have lived on their lands for generations to grow soy products. But we don't normally hear about the fate of the land and people here in the US. I just happened to come across an article in the Washington Post a couple years ago about how they planned to strip a large section of land in Brazil and then later ran across an article in an environmental site about families that were displaced to start large soy manufacturing farms. At the time of the reading the families were still homeless. Up until that time I had always believed that the major grower of soy was the US farmer but that has been steadily changing over the last few years and believe me they take over large land sectors to grow more soy because of the high demand and plan on more farms. Just google Cargill and South America and you'll start coming up with all kinds of stuff about them.

If we start manufacturing autos, trucks, and farm equipment that runs on biodiesel the demand will be even greater.

On a personal note, I live in Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley which has very fertile soil and when you go down a country road, any country road, you will see signs every few miles that you can't miss announcing that the farmer works for Cargill. They are just all over the place.

[Traveler]

@Candybee & Stella,

I love the information you two find and share for us ~ I'm a candlemaker who wants to know the good, the bad and the ugly. (Unlike the candlemaker at a recent craft show who advertised her jelly jar soy candles as "100% Organic" and told people that paraffin candles cause cancer. Scary stuff!)

I use and test all types of wax - soy, paraffin, palm, paraffin-soy blend. (No beeswax, too pricey). I am not anti-wax. I am anti-advertsising that is hyped, falsified, blown out of proportion.

CS's decision to remove palm...but to keep promoting soy wax in such a positive light is somewhat puzzling.

I don't understand people who talk about "Being Green" while buying a soy candle and then lighting up a cigarette as they walk away from my booth to drive their gas powered car home. Where they eat a fast food dinner loaded with palm oil and fat and sugar and salt and preservatives.

Thank you for continuing to keep putting out factual information so that candlemakers such as myself know exactly where I stand. I would much rather know that my soy wax may be just as ugly in origin as my palm wax....and oh yes, my very evil box of carcinogen loaded paraffin wax.

(I am an Equal Opportunity Wax Worker ;-)

I think it's time I just started poking fun at all of my waxes and myself. I need to start enjoying candlemaking again and stop worrying....I mean, when you really think about it, as a candlemaker, my personal carbon footprint is...well it is so large by now I'm certain only NASA could map it!

[Candybee]

Traveler - As I mentioned earlier I will continue using GG palm wax because that is what I use for my current line of candles. I still think its a great wax with wonderful properties well worth making candles with. But I also use and love a variety of palm, soy, and parrafin waxes that I will also continue using. If I weren't selling them I would still be making them for myself, family, and friends.

For as long as I have been at this business I have heard and read a lot about the pros and cons of soy, parrafin, and palm waxe; the good, the bad, the ugly and the crappola. :rolleyes2

When soy became popular there was a lot of dumping on parrafin for a number of years and that has started to dwindle as more and more candlemakers and consumers are learning the facts vs fiction and sorting it out for themselves. So parrafin is steadily making a comeback, as it should, because it is a wonderful wax to work with and makes great candles and is not the 'demon' wax it has been toted as by unscrupulous soy manufacters and marketers. Now since palm has come on the scene I am experiencing a deja vu. I'm sure this too will pass as not all the 'facts' I am hearing and reading that are toted as 'truths' are accurate.

All I have to say is try to learn and sort out the information to make your own decisions about waxes and the environment. In addition, the best way to learn about the properties of any wax is to test it out for yourself in as many conditions as you are able to discover its pros and cons. I think this is what makes a good candlemaker.

[cybersix]

I just read this.

I don't know what to think now.

I sure will go on with my best sellers, palm wax pillars. I can't let go everything I make everyday there's something new..

So I will keep on using my loved (hated sometimes) palm wax.

But there's one thing I don't understand.

Palm wax is made with palm oil. Palm oil comes from the FRUITS of palms.

You don't need a whole palm tree. So what the relationship between harvesting palm fruits and deforestation?

Don't fruits keep on growing?

If I harvest apples from an apple tree, the tree is still there, in my garden.

I'm an ignorant, is someone able to explain it to me?

[beccakatzen]

You don't need a whole palm tree. So what the relationship between harvesting palm fruits and deforestation?

Don't fruits keep on growing?

If I harvest apples from an apple tree, the tree is still there, in my garden.

I'm an ignorant, is someone able to explain it to me?

I think it's because they are clearing the rainforests to plant palms. Like crops. The problem is that the are destroying a whole ecosystem. Not to mention how many species may go extinct because their habitats are becoming smaller and smaller and the rainforest is slowly but surely being destroyed.

I like soy because it's grown here in America's farmlands. The soy that I use is 100% American grown.

[cybersix]

I think it's because they are clearing the rainforests to plant palms. Like crops. The problem is that the are destroying a whole ecosystem. Not to mention how many species may go extinct because their habitats are becoming smaller and smaller and the rainforest is slowly but surely being destroyed.

I like soy because it's grown here in America's farmlands. The soy that I use is 100% American grown.

Oh yah, to plant palms they clear rainforests. Stupid me.

What I don't get is that candles can't be the only one cause to this.

Good to put a hand on heart and think to our earth, but we are not the only users of palm oil.

Once it is a problem with paraffin, then with OGM soy crops, then with deforestation. Sooner or later we'll have to quit on making candles?

Edited December 14, 2010 by cybersix

[Gbhunter]

I think this is just crap. Did you know that in China they reclaim old computers and as a by product they dump raw mercury into rivers. They also use extremly toxic chemicals in the making of computer boards and chips that they dump into the water systems and air. They dont really care about worker safety or the enviroment. Thats why most of the companies go there. But its strange how in none of the enviromental attacks you see on TV no one dares to mention how much damage they are producing on just the other side of the world... Why..well because China has "preffered" nation status in trade with the United states. The US has trade bands against Cuba and yet China has nukes and is guilty of more human right violations than then Cuba ever could. So I just stopped caring about this stuff. The US will go "green" by moving all the "dirty" industry off shore. I love my palm wax and will not stop buing it : but thats just my 2 cents.

>Takes soap box and leaves<

Edited December 14, 2010 by Gbhunter