topofmurrayhill Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Somtimes I get tired of hearing BS about what is "natural" wax. Just because certain terminology comes into common use, that doesn't mean you should use the name of something as a substitute for knowing about something. If you think about it, a lot of things in everyday life have names that don't describe them very accurately."Natural" refers to something that comes from nature. Soy wax, one of the most popular natural waxes, doesn't even occur in nature. It's made in a factory. You could call it natural to the extent that the raw material for producing it is extracted from a plant. If you want to be a little more accurate than that, you could call it a vegetable wax.But what is paraffin? Where does it come from and how is it made? That's not a big mystery. It comes straight from the ground. It's made by mother Earth. The raw materials for its production are ancient plants. There's nothing artificial about it by any stretch. We just find it and use it.What exactly are the hydrocarbons, such as paraffin and other things, that you find in crude oil? Are they just some kind of accidental waste product of the planet? Actually, if you look up at the sky at night you are looking at the same stuff. Planets, comets and interstellar space are jammed with a lot of the same hydrocarbons. It comes into being everywhere, all the time. It's a significant chunk of the universe and, in fact, it's among the building blocks of life.There's a satellite of Saturn called Titan. This large moon is thought to be the most similar thing in the solar system to the primodial Earth. While Earth evolved and nurtured life, Titan is so far from the sun that these primodial conditions got frozen in time.The soil itself on Titan is partially composed of hydrocarbons. On this world, the natural gas (methane) that you burn in your stove is called lakes, seas, clouds and rain. Titan is considered one of the prime places in the solar system to search for signs of simple extraterrestrial life. It may be a little cold but it has all the ingredients.Methane (Titan's rain) is found in abundance throughout the universe. On Earth it's an odorless, non-toxic gas than can react with oxygen to release energy, carbon dioxide and water. We use it for cooking and heating. Methane is the simplest example and basic building block of a class of compounds called alkanes. Another word for alkane is paraffin. String together some methane molecules in a straight line and you get an odorless, tasteless, non-toxic solid that reacts with oxygen to release energy, carbon dioxide and water. The common way of starting this reaction is to stick a wick in it and light it.Some of this may seem removed from candlemaking but I think it offers some directly relevant perspective on what are "natural" materials and how terminology can distort your perception of things. Actually we live in a universe of paraffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelleyBean Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Awesome post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbiepql Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Technically, both products - soy wax and paraffin wax start as "natural" products, soy wax from beans in the field and paraffin from crude oil pumped from the ground. Both must be processed to be used for candle making purposes. Soy Wax is extracted from beans and hydrogenating process and paraffin, correct me if I am wrong is a by product of refining crude? It must be distilled and then refined by solvents, no? Given your definition of nature; "Natural" refers to something that comes from nature". Neither would be considered natural in the final states we use both products. Neither comes straight from the source product. The difference being for some, that once the crude oil is gone, there is no more. I think the level of BS over the word "natural" can be attributed more accurately if you ask one to define what natural means to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeWaxMelts Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Topofmurrayhil, and Abbiepql...You both have very valid points IMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Makin Momma Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I prefer to say vegetable wax, because like you said, they all are natural. Paraffin is made from long dead dinosaurs, right? Call it Dino wax. lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I prefer to say vegetable wax, because like you said, they all are natural. Paraffin is made from long dead dinosaurs, right? Call it Dino wax. lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 Both must be processed to be used for candle making purposes. Soy Wax is extracted from beans and hydrogenating process and paraffin, correct me if I am wrong is a by product of refining crude?The refinement here is mainly a process of recovering an existing substance from a mixture of different things. Soybean oil is refined from a bean and paraffin is refined from crude, but they're both in there and clearly do exist in nature. Soybean oil goes through an additional process of chemical alteration in the hydrogenation process, which produces some compounds that are not found in nature.However, I'm not arguing for stripping soy shortening of its "natural" status, but pointing out that paraffin is exemplary of natural waxes and that fossil hydrocarbons represent compounds that are extremely common throughout the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 The actual scientific background and composition of the various types of wax has little to no bearing on the decision making of the consumer. Basically because such facts are either too technical (confusing) or generally of little interest to them (read boring.) The differences would not be a factor unless pointed out in some form of advertising.Marketing pros, on the other hand, are adroit at taking factoids out of context and using them as positives to promote their vested interest (sales) ... or to slam the competition thereby "converting" consumers to their form of wax. So, in my opinion, "natural" is a marketing/advertising rather than a scientific term. There was a survey taken on this forum recently. Seems that the majority of consumers are only looking for a product that will do what it was designed to do - throw an aroma - no matter what type wax is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1_AJ Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 You're just ITCHING for some controversy, eh, dude? Kidding. Carry on. I love debates! (Well, most of the time. )Sadly, I am so tired right now that I couldn't post anything intelligent to add to the discussion. I'm just surfing before I crash. :tiptoe: Maybe in the morning I will be able to form coherent thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henryk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I'll just use my Candlewic organic yellow beeswax from Mt. Everest and avoid all this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceCarvesWax Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Screw it, im using ear wax! Should be able to crank out about 1 candle a month unless I visit the local nursing homes for "natural harvesting" then I could be back to full production! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1_AJ Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 If Shrek can do it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violetsexoticcandles Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 How's beeswax and paraffin as "animal wax?? Aren't bees and dinosaurs animals? They deserve respect! Dino wax sounds too Flintstonish! And soy- soy from bean wax, with many complications that may or may not screw it up when the chandler tries to make a perfect candle? (Votive, might I add... I'm hopin my votive ills will chill out soon or I'll be lookin around for another soy votive wax because V1 has been so testy I am beginnning to hate the time it takes to make 9 freekin votives~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~)Haha...Ooops guess I should stay loyal to soy but really the V1 has been kicking my ass so.... good names, ya think?Screw it, im using ear wax! Should be able to crank out about 1 candle a month unless I visit the local nursing homes for "natural harvesting" then I could be back to full production! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dallas_Texas_Dean Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Actually...I never did well in Science...I was usually drawing/doodling. I am grateful however there were and are people that actually "get it". We would be in sad shape without them.I absolutely LOVE it, Top, that you always manage to get that word "shortening" in there. THAT, I can understand! Being raised around oil fields, we have always believed oil is a "natural" product from mother earth....and it paid the bills. (and warmed our asses...and allowed us to run our cars up and down Main street cruising every night) We LOVED it! Smelled like money back in the days...and smells like money now.....sure makes a nice pretty candle for us doodlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh-MYo Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Nice topic Top!This can all get so confusing if you were to listen to all the spin doctors. Everything is natural because it comes from our sweet green mother earth. Fueled exclusively by the sun which is just as natural.Learning about where the products we use come from is always good. I have always found the term "vegetable" wax somewhat misleading. Vegetables contain wax? Since when?....lol. Oh! It's hydrgenated soy oil! Why didnt you say so?Soy as a food source is atrocious, despite outrageous claims by more of those spin doctors. So its good that they can at least make candles out of the hydrogenated oil.And since I have typed "hydrogenated" at least twice, I wonder how the purists feel that soy wax can be "natural" after it has been hydrogenated. The hydrogenation process itself is quite fascinating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HydrogenationBeeswax is about as "natural" or unsynthetic as you can get, only because it is the bees themselves that are doing the processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1_AJ Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I myself have differing versions of what constitutes "natural," sadly. Sometimes I apply the word to mean "things found in nature." That would include water, air, minerals, animals, and plants in their normal state, untampered with by man. BUT ... because I'm human, ( ) I've also applied the word "natural" to my soaps that use only essential oils for scent, for example. I do not apply it to my soy candles. Obviously, there are no FO trees and dye orchards where I can harvest organic FO and colorants, for starters. I'll admit it -- I'm a bit inconsistent here. I *try* to be consistent, but shoot ... human nature being what it is, you can't please everyone with the use of the word "natural." Rationally, it *should* be an objective word, but it isn't...very subjective and given various personal spins, twists and interpretations. You never know what someone means by the term unless he or she clarifies. I saw booths at a huge fair recently where sellers were touting "natural" soy candles and "natural" soaps with fo's in 'em. I disagree with their interpretations of the word.OTOH, just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it should necessarily be considered superior or desirable. Radon gas occurs naturally, but I sure as shootin' don't go looking to stick my head in a pit where it's coming up out of the earth so I can inhale a few deep breaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Phelps Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 The bad thing is that the customers are so confused now, they don't know what to think. The soy people are bad mouthing the parrifin wax. And the parrifin is bad mouthing the soy wax. What does this cause??? Less candle sales for all of us. They will hear so much bad stuff that they will stop using candles altogether. Wouldn't you? There is a lot of scary stuff out there about candles. They been around for years. I have never heard of one dying from excess candle use. Have you? Each candlemaker has their own version of what it good and right. We don't go to candle school, so we have to educate ourselves. It is amazing to me what everybody comes up with. Just because you read something out of a book does not make it true. Just because you read something that sounds intelligent and has lots of scientific words, does not mean that it is true. I have learned to sit back and see what happens. I don't like to jump into the lastest thing, until I see some feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Beeswax is about as "natural" or unsynthetic as you can get, only because it is the bees themselves that are doing the processing.Beeswax comes to us pretty unadulterated from the insect world. Plus the plant world gives us bayberry wax. These materials are simply harvested and refined in a relatively simple and minimal way.From a chemical point of view, hydrogenated vegetable oils are the moral equivalent of animal fat (fatty acid triglycerides). In the form of margarine and soy shortening, they can be used as man-made alternatives to animal fat products such as lard, tallow and butter. Using soy shortening to make candles is reminiscent of when candles were made from tallow. And of course, all these things can be used to make soap.These materials are relatively rare in the universe compared to paraffin. Methane is everywhere. It's a carbon atom saturated with 4 hydrogen atoms. Think of this little molecule as a Lego block and imagine clicking the Legos together one on top of the other in a perfectly straight line. No matter how many or how few Legos you put together, you have the same kind of material. What varies primarily is the melting point.At Earth temperature and pressure, one or two Legos stuck together has such a low melting point that it's a gas piped to your stove. 3 Legos stuck together is a gas but can easily be compressed into a liquid. You buy it in tanks to power your propane barbecue. 4 Legos stuck together is even easier to liquify and is used in butane lighters.As you increase the number of Legos, you get materials that are liquid at room temperature. Once you get up into dozens of Legos all in a row, you have a solid at room temperature. It's commonly known as paraffin wax. The longer the Lego chain, the higher the MP of the wax.Whether solid, liquid or gas, all these things are paraffins. Back on Titan, it's so cold that water is solid rock strewn on the ground, except where it gushes out of volcanoes. However, methane is a liquid that collects into lakes and seas, evaporates into the atmosphere, forms clouds and falls back down as rain. It takes the place of water to make paraffin weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Now I haven't tried paraffin.....but in a pinch I always use my soy wax to make pie crust. (smile) The spin doctors should start promoting soy candles as soy candles/cooking shortening. Two products in one........ Natural is natural. Everything is natural....when we do something to alter it another substance can be created.....just as in making soap....mixing lye with fat creates "soap". I made all kinds of soap and the product made from plain old Crisco was great. I rendered my own tallow and made candles and soap for an experiment.....I now know why that when they discovered stearic acid and paraffin they were so excited.....the "natural" animal fat made a smoky stinky mess..........a piece of "natural" bread when toasted to a dark color becomes a carcinogen.......so does a piece of grilled food (steak or corn) ........I agree that with so much uneducated publicity on the subject of candles that it just hurts the business. I think that Bruce is on to something. But as soon as you light the ear wax.......the carbons change too. Just don't light it in your ear. (smile) Top....thanks for starting this discussion. I appreciate your wisdom.....great food for thought. Donita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Di_in_AZ Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Wow nice post Top. I may even start a new ad campaign...."Paraffin....the other natural wax!":D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Screw it, im using ear wax! Should be able to crank out about 1 candle a month unless I visit the local nursing homes for "natural harvesting" then I could be back to full production! BruceEEEWwwwwww!!!!Thanks for the visual Bruce. Geesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 BUT ... because I'm human, ( ) I've also applied the word "natural" to my soaps that use only essential oils for scent, for example. I do not apply it to my soy candles. Obviously, there are no FO trees and dye orchards where I can harvest organic FO and colorants, for starters. One of my favorite arguments is that soap cannot be natural because it is not found in that form in nature. At which point I throw my hands in the air and respond "whatever"!My feelings, as a consumer of candles - more educated than the average one but that's by nature not because I'm here - is that a good candle is a good candle, and a bad one is a bad one. You judge them by what comes out, not by what goes in.But I'm weird that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Wow nice post Top. I may even start a new ad campaign...."Paraffin....the other natural wax!":DThat's really cute. Can I use it too? I was thinking about this controversy about what makes a natural wax candle and was wondering about adding fragrance oil that is made from all kinds of chemicals. As soon as you add that to soy it isn't plain soy anymore. Using essential oils has it's problems too. As soon as you light something on fire it changes. Try burning lime essential oil.....ick....not a good thing. In soy or paraffin. Lightning bugs are pretty natural......but they die quickly. Donita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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