can I sell these yet, do you reckon?

[Wick'n'Wax]

I've tested and tested, oh and tested some votives.

I've done 14 fo's so far and tested 4 of each. They all burned for 17 hours-ish.

Is it safe to sell those fo's I've tested now?

My sister-in-law wants a couple and said to bring some to her daughters party this weekend, to see how I go. Also, to bring melts.

What you reckon?

[NattyCat]

They are not ready to sell if you don't have insurance.

Stump up the £100 for insurance and you're covered. If some idiot burns their house down with your candle, you have to prove your candle was not at fault, even if they lit it underneath a curtain they'd covered in petrol - you still have to fight your corner - and you can't do that if you have no insurance, unless you want to sell your house to get the funds.

you need craft insurance with public liability up to 5million.

[Wick'n'Wax]

Nat, does that go for website sales and in person sales, i.e. relatives etc at the party? or just craft fairs?

What about melts? you are only supplying the melt, not the t-lite and burner?

what about websites that have candle safety and disclaimers on? and safety labels on candles?

I'm never gonna be in a position to shell out £100 on insurance? It's taking me all my time to keep on top of supplies for testing at the moment.

[NattyCat]

it applies to everything you sell hun, whether it be in person, on the net, through a friend, via a catalogue or whatever. Sorry. If you go to your sisters party, and sell a packet of votives to a friend of hers - she may be as friendly as pie, but what if your candle (which you've hardly really tested) burnt in a strange way or she carelessly burnt her house down - she wouldn't be so friendly after that and a lawsuit totalling thousands of pounds will land on your doorstep.

And yes, websites DO have disclaimers, but I bet they also have insurance, and if they don't - then they are fools.

Safety labels go some way to telling people HOW to burn a candle, but what if one of your candles or wax melts had an airpocket in it that you didn't know about - as soon as the flame hits the air pocket, it could cause the candle to "fart" quite drastically. What if it splattered wax all over someone's brand new cream rug which cost £2,000? Can you afford to replace that if it happened? Could you afford the £300 professional cleaning bill? Could you afford to go to court to prove that she dropped the candle and it wasn't your candle splattering and spluttering?

It's not always due to people burning their houses down, it is necessary to cover your butt in ANY eventuality. Should one of your candles have an airpocket, if the wick decided to explode, if the wax caught fire and burnt a customers brand new curtains down - you simply DO NOT KNOW if your candles or wax melts have any unseen imperfections, and therefore you would be fully liable in the event of any catastrophe - and that would either be legal costs, or repair/replacement costs.

I'm not being harsh here - but from day one (which was only a couple of months ago) you have been desperate to sell, so I am pretty sure that no matter what anyone says, you'll go ahead and do it if you want to. But I'm just trying to help you see just why you need to have ALL your ducks in a row. If you cannot afford to run a business selling your products with all the ESSENTIAL safety nets in place (and insurance is the most important thing you MUST have) then you shouldn't be in business at all - that includes selling a few votives or melts at a friends party. If you have no insurance, you should GIVE them away as testers and get feedback from "potential" customers and see what they say about your items.

I realise money is very tight for you - which must be a huge incentive for you to want to sell asap - but seriously, you must have insurance and if you can't afford it, don't sell.

[pajnstl]

NattyCat, Where would one find insurance policies for candles? Can you post a few links?

[NattyCat]

NattyCat, Where would one find insurance policies for candles? Can you post a few links?

I'm in the UK - so our insurance wouldn't be the right one for you - but I'm sure if you post in the business section, you will get plenty of replies.

[Wick'n'Wax]

Nat,

I've been looking around and not sure what I'm looking for, can you advise?

[NattyCat]

http://www.craftinsurance.co.uk/

http://www.thmarch.co.uk

I'm with the first one. Perhaps you could get a policy for 2 million to start with, as most craft fairs require between 2 and 5 million.

Nat

[Wick'n'Wax]

thanks nat, will take a look

[NattyCat]

thanks nat' date=' will take a look[/quote']

I re-read my reply, and it did come across a little harsh - but I didn't mean it in a nasty way hun - I just would hate for you to get stung - i've seen it once before which prompted me to get and keep my insurance so wanted to warn you of the possible minefield you face in this litigious society we live in!

[chrisasst]

WOW...crafters insurance? I didn't realize there was a thing...I live in ny and I can't find anything about crafters insurance online...does anyone on here live in NY and have insurance?

this post as really scared me now..since I sold some the other day..

[judyvega]

I know a few peep on here go through auto owners ins.

[MissMary]

For the American side, I did some researching:

Product Liability Insurance is what you want if you only plan to sell from a web site. Other insurance is needed if you do craft shows, or sell from a storefront as you need to cover 'slip and fall' in your space, etc.

Ohio Casualty has some, but the rates vary greatly with exactly what you are selling, and can refuse outright.

The link below you have to become a member, HOWEVER, the pricing is still the same or cheaper than buying a membership, and the top level membership gives out insurance. NOTE: This is only for 1 million in coverage though, and most craft fairs require at least 2 million. You can adjust through them as well, what you wish for, but the basic you automatically get in the 495 fee is 1 mil, plus a years membership, which is what I have. It is also one that insures both a policy for candles alone, and for candles/B&B business.

http://www.indiebeauty.com/channel-ibnyou/join.asp

Handcrafted Soap Maker's Guild offers a line of insurance, but you MUST have soap for sale. You can do candles AND soap, but not JUST candles alone.

HTH

[comfortscents]

I live in NY and I had an umbrella added to my homeowners insurance...did you know that for example..I belonged to a local service group who sold food at a town festival...the food was heated up in my oven...if someone got sick from something in the food...I could also be liable? I believe I added a $1,000, 000.00 umbrella to my insurance to cover my candles and soaps and any other vendor related law suit...my insurance is thru Atlantic Mutual..however I'm sure you can add this umbrella to whatever insurance company that's already insuring you. One fire from a candle you made, one person has a reaction to the soap you produced and you can find yourself at the other end of a lawsuit. From personal experience I can tell you that I had a reaction to a over the counter cream called Dramatic Results..it was made by Cheesborough Ponds..after using it, one night before going to bed and first thing the next morning (per instructions..) 6 hours later I looked like someone had set fire to my face and neck. I was taken to the hospital...my eyes had swollen shut, my skin was peeling (actually what I ended up giving myself, even though I hadn't planned it was a Chemical Peel). My friend took photos, we sent them to the manufacturer, I was off work for a week...and let's just say...I bought a mini van from what I ended up getting from the company. So I'm hoping myself that I don't come off harsh but anyone here who makes anything b&b, candle related (which is all of us) should make sure they are covered if anything happens.

[ChrisR]

Another one to check in NY state is Erie and Niagara Ins. Co. My homeowner's wouldn't insure my candles!!

[MissMary]

Another one to check in NY state is Erie and Niagara Ins. Co. My homeowner's wouldn't insure my candles!!

My renter's wouldn't either, neither would their partners!

[Wicknwax]

You definitely need insurance

[jillgunter]

Check with State Farm, I know some people have insurance with them. Some states are different so see what they offer.

[chrisasst]

what exactly would I ask my homeowners or any insurance place for? would I ask if they had product liability insurance, crafters insurance or what is it called? sorry if I am being stupid here..

[ScentsandMore]

Not sure how true this is, but I read before on one of the candle message boards to not ask your homeowners insurance because some of them will drop you if they find out that you are making candles at home. Can anyone shed any light on this being true or not?

[Jane42]

Not sure how true this is, but I read before on one of the candle message boards to not ask your homeowners insurance because some of them will drop you if they find out that you are making candles at home. Can anyone shed any light on this being true or not?

I used to work for an insurance company that would not cover you if they found out you used your vehicle for business, or had an in-home business - but I knew that so I didn't ask. If I had, they probably would have cancelled me.

We just got our business insurance elsewhere.

[MissMary]

You can decide not to tell them, HOWEVER, this advice comes from my stepmother when I asked her the same thing (she works claims for American Family Insurance in the regional offices):

If you have a policy to cover your home or renter's, and you have an incident related to your business, you could *possibly* be charged with fraud for not informing, and there is absolutely no way they would pay if you had any damages to your home or someone else's. Not to mention, your HO/renter's covers if someone slips and falls on your property, but if they came there to deliver, pick up or buy something and it happens, you could be in deep doo doo that way as well, because they have no knowledge, and your other insurance may not cover it, because it happened at a home.

IMO, it's best to tell them that you have a business in home. This way, if they don't offer the insurance, you can A) inform them you will get a separate policy to cover business incidents and provide them with the policy information (which is what I have done), or find another insurance company.

It's a very bad idea to lie or sin by omission when it comes to insurance purposes.

As for what you ask for, it depends on what you plan to do. If you are selling strictly from a website, where no one comes into a place to buy your items, then you would need Product Liability Insurance, and make sure either your homeowner's/renter's covers it, or you get a policy that covers business related items in your home, which can be covered under PLI.

If you sell at craft markets, storefronts, or out of home (including parties) then you will need more coverage, but since I was more worried about making sure my testers were covered, I haven't investigated what you would need. It could also have a need to be more if you have wholesale accounts, but I'm not sure on that either.

HTH! I can't help in the way of making a good candle business, or good candles that are to die for, but insurance I can help!

[comfortscents]

My insurance agent and her office are some of my best customers...my husband is in government...get sues A LOT so the umbrella also covers that...I just asked my agent how to cover my butt candle/soap wise...she did some research and switched us to Atlantic Mutual..it could possibly be called something other than an "umbrella" but that's how she refers to it..I just know I'm covered. I should probably insure for more than 1 million but I just followed her advice. I will say though that I have had 3 fires in my home all from when I was just starting out..one fire damaged my windows, counter and ceiling, I was able to "move" the fire outside..did a stupid thing and threw the pot across the yard into the snow and of course it just got bigger..burned my stairs and railing and a bush next to the house...(I was waiting for God to talk to me thru the burning bush) started yelling fire and that's pretty much what happened..my homeowners covered my inside and outside damage so it is on the record that I make candles and now soaps...and they didn't drop me...raised my rates though!

[Kay]

NattyCat, Where would one find insurance policies for candles? Can you post a few links?

I found this..

http://www.candlecauldron.com/insurance.html

[NattyCat]

I found this..

http://www.candlecauldron.com/insurance.html

this post seems to have been hijacked by a discussion on USA insurance. We're in the UK so that link doesn't help at all - but it may be useful for north american candle and soap makers - so here's a bump to get it up to the top.

Bump!