Testing, testing

[gatinha]

Everywhere I look in this forum I see test, test and test. I guess my question is with all the testing how long did it take you guys before you sold your first candle. I've been making candles for almost a month now, 100 lbs. of wax later and couple of hundred dollars in fo's I have nothing done. The way is sounds it will take me 100 years before I can think of selling anything.

[eugenia]

Testing gets much easier. After a bit, you should be able to eyeball a candle and know 2 or 3 wicks that may work, then narrow it down. Make sure you keep notes of what works for you! It's even faster if you make one of each and burn them side by side.

[Guest amynleebishop]

What type of candles are you making that you are having such a hard time with?

[gatinha]

Eugenia you have given me hope:yay:. And Amy I was not aware of what was involved in making candles so I went and pretty much bought 10 different kinds of molds and started pouring all of them. Needless to say I have problems with all of them. I did not find out about this place until it was too late. And to make matters worse, I have 5 craft shows booked starting the end of this month. And I was using Yaley wax and was not getting any scent throw so this past monday I went to Narure's Garden, which is 1h and 30 min. from my house, and bought 100 lbs. of MP145. I started testing it yesterday and as I was melting the wax there was what looked like water to me at the bottom of the pot. So I called Nature's Garden today and they don't know what is wrong with the wax so now I have to drive all the way over there to take it back:mad:. I'm very disappointed with Narure's Garden not so much because of the wax but because they don't know anything about the product they sell. And now I have over $100.00 in store credit and am forced to keeping doing business with them. So far this candle business has been very frustating and I'm afraid to keep going and not know if it will all work out and I'm afraid to give up and not know what I'm missing. So, sorry for venting and thanks for listening.

[Deb]

It won't take 100 years, but it will take longer than a month to master a decent candle.

Do some research here, read all you can read, and learn all you can learn, then try to master one thing at a time. I would also give serious thought to canceling the shows. If you want repeat customers, you have to have a quality product and I don't see that happening in a month.

Nature's Garden isn't to blame for your wax woes. Bad batches of wax happen. They are a very popular supplier and your $100 credit won't go to waste if you use it wisely.

[jillgunter]

Pillars are one of the harder candles to start out with. I think Containers are one of the easier ones to master. The main thing is figuring out your wick sizes. Some FOs with cause you to have to wick up. It does take some time to figure it all out. The testing is so important because that you are selling a product that could potentially cause a fire if theres something wrong with it.

Good luck with it all, I always had a hard time leveling the pillars. What kind of FO are you using?

[MaryinCary]

Amy I was not aware of what was involved in making candles so I went and pretty much bought 10 different kinds of molds and started pouring all of them. Needless to say I have problems with all of them. I did not find out about this place until it was too late. And to make matters worse, I have 5 craft shows booked starting the end of this month. And I was using Yaley wax and was not getting any scent throw so this past monday I went to Narure's Garden, which is 1h and 30 min. from my house, and bought 100 lbs. of MP145. I started testing it yesterday and as I was melting the wax there was what looked like water to me at the bottom of the pot. So I called Nature's Garden today and they don't know what is wrong with the wax so now I have to drive all the way over there to take it back:mad:. I'm very disappointed with Narure's Garden not so much because of the wax but because they don't know anything about the product they sell. And now I have over $100.00 in store credit and am forced to keeping doing business with them. So far this candle business has been very frustating and I'm afraid to keep going and not know if it will all work out and I'm afraid to give up and not know what I'm missing. So, sorry for venting and thanks for listening.

Talk about putting the cart before the horse....1 month of candlemaking and 5 craft shows booked already....and you want to blame NG for your problems? :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2

[mikescandles]

what methed of wax mellting are you useing?if its a dubble boiler you might have added tomuch water in the bottom pot the water will settle on the bottom.

[Freezin]

First, take a deep breath...LOL...then cancel the shows that you have booked. It is putting way too much pressure on you and I don't think you are ready. Start by searching for pillar waxes on the board and the old board (archives). Then do a search for wicks for the size of molds you are using. I think I would select a couple of the molds to start out with and then work up to the others that you have bought. It will be worth the hours of reading you will be doing to gain the information you need to make a great candle. Remember if you go to those shows with a candle that isn't good, you will be getting a bad reputation right off the bat. You will get this, you just need more time. Good Luck and hang in there!

[SliverOfWax]

This is one scary thread. We have one newbie response wondering why you're having such a hard time and another newbie response giving tips on dubble boilers.

And eugenia, I don't think that's good advice to give a newby. Talk about a false sense of security. It's not about eyeballing. It's about knowing your wax and wicks like the back of your hand. Then, and only then, can you get to know your fragrances. One at a time. When you have a good idea what wick works in a specific wax and specific container/mold, then you can start thinking about fragrances.

It doesn't matter one bit how long it took someone else to sell a candle. What matters is the degree of testing. Like someone said in a different thread, if you have to ask, you're nowhere near ready to sell.

[eugenia]

And eugenia, I don't think that's good advice to give a newby. Talk about a false sense of security. It's not about eyeballing.

Sliver, What I meant was after you get some experience, you won't have to try a zillion wicks to see which one is right, that you should have it narrowed down before you start testing. I never meant to imply that testing was unnessecary, only that it gets easier with experience.

Please, please cancel the craft shows. Focus on one type of candle and learn how to make it perfect, then move on to the next.

[SliverOfWax]

OK, well, that's not what I call eyeballing. You'll never know your wicks by sight. Hopefully, they are properly labeled.

If you don't cancel your craft shows, please take the table next to mine. It will make my candles look like masterpieces and people will marvel at what a genius I am.

[gatinha]

I don't think I blamed NG for my problems I said that they don't seem to know their products and I think these are 2 different things. I would like to deal with a company who can answer some of my questions since I'm new at all this. If the lady had said that I probably had a bad batch of wax at least is better than "I'm not sure what to tell you". And I'm sure they are a great company for peolple who seem to know everything because all you have to do is order. You already know what to do with the stuff good or bad.

Anyway, I canceled all my shows and feel sooooooooo much better. Thank you so much for all your help. I've been reading and it seems people really like 1343 wax from Peaks so I'm going to order some and start testing on one candle only. You might not hear from me for a while (what a shame:wink2: ) don't think I gave up. I'll let you know how my first candle turns out.

[EmpressC]

Hang in there, Gatinha! We newbies won't be "new" forever!

[mizbizzyb]

Sorry to hear about your experience. Keep testing and testing...At least you have $100.00 to spend with NG...they do have some nice fragrances...so with your new wax you can order FO's/wicks/etc without anymore out of pocket expenses.

Good luck with your testing...remember you cannot rush perfection....keep us updated.

[cybersix]

I don't think I blamed NG for my problems I said that they don't seem to know their products and I think these are 2 different things. I would like to deal with a company who can answer some of my questions since I'm new at all this. If the lady had said that I probably had a bad batch of wax at least is better than "I'm not sure what to tell you". And I'm sure they are a great company for peolple who seem to know everything because all you have to do is order. You already know what to do with the stuff good or bad.

Anyway, I canceled all my shows and feel sooooooooo much better. Thank you so much for all your help. I've been reading and it seems people really like 1343 wax from Peaks so I'm going to order some and start testing on one candle only. You might not hear from me for a while (what a shame:wink2: ) don't think I gave up. I'll let you know how my first candle turns out.

uhm water in wax it's pretty unexplicable (sp??), because water can't be trapped in wax. Wax is lighter than water, so if you let harden the wax in the pot the water will remain in the bottom of the pot. you can pour it in a cookie sheet let it set, then take it out and let it dry .. no water.

When I used the double boiler sometimes some drop of boiling water jumped in the pot, that's the only thing that comes to my mind. Or maybe you had the wax in a place near water, in the kitchen, or under the rain..

anyway, take it slow, and test everything, don't assume nothing.

I started with pillars just because I don't care for containers, and it's been a lot of time and money try to figuring things right. But beware, surprises are always around the corner. Good luck, and good work

[sugarysweet95]

I made the same mistake when i start candle making. All the shaped moulds/ colours and fragrances all looked so cool, i bought loads. Tried out lots of different things straight away and some worked and some didnt. Luckily i'm blessed with a good memory and so can remember the way i did the ones which didn't go so well!

Anyway i decided to start testing way before i found out about this board and decided to choose a few of my moulds and only a few colours and fragrances.

I used the LX Wicks because they looked good and now know lots of ppl use them which is great. I liked them too because they have good guidelines on the type of candle they are for. So i tried the LX Wick for that diameter plus one up and one down from it and got some good results. When i'd decided on the wick, i then tried several different dyes then fragrances to see what affect they had too.

Then you just keep trying a new thing, get it right and then try something else!

(Though to be honest, I wouldn't be soo afraid of this testing malarky! I find if i stick to the same wax and wick, the fragrance/dye and additives don't really change how well it burns much at all!!!!)

[eugenia]

Anyway, I canceled all my shows and feel sooooooooo much better. Thank you so much for all your help. I've been reading and it seems people really like 1343 wax from Peaks so I'm going to order some and start testing on one candle only. You might not hear from me for a while (what a shame:wink2: ) don't think I gave up. I'll let you know how my first candle turns out.

Sounds like you are getting back on the right track. For pillars, 3" round are a good starting point.

[Scented]

I don't think I blamed NG for my problems I said that they don't seem to know their products and I think these are 2 different things. I would like to deal with a company who can answer some of my questions since I'm new at all this. If the lady had said that I probably had a bad batch of wax at least is better than "I'm not sure what to tell you".

It was implied. Even I picked it up. But wax is tricky and your response to them could have left them unsure about how to reply. Perhaps they weren't flaky about their response, but seriously NEED to see the product to help your further. JMO.

It would be similar to getting a bottle of FO with floaties in it and not knowing what it is. They might tell you sediment but a picture of what's going on and seeing for oneself helps solve the problem or get a step closer.

Yeah sometimes water gets trapped in wax and sometimes it's other things. Perhaps you were the first to notice this. Perhaps you weren't.

[topofmurrayhill]

uhm water in wax it's pretty unexplicable (sp??), because water can't be trapped in wax.

Believe it or not, water in the wax isn't uncommon. Slabbing equipment can use water to cool the wax and certain container waxes have been notorious for arriving waterlogged from manufacturing. I've even seen pockets of water embedded in slabs of straight paraffin.

This summer, I had some cases delivered on a rainy day, plus it was humid where the wax was stored. Two months later I'd get occasional droplets in the melted wax from using a corner or edge of one of those slabs, where the wax was a little beat up and absorbed moisture. All kinds of ways for it to get in.

[topofmurrayhill]

(Though to be honest, I wouldn't be soo afraid of this testing malarky! I find if i stick to the same wax and wick, the fragrance/dye and additives don't really change how well it burns much at all!!!!)

The info in my burn testing spreadsheets tells a different story. You must be using some magical ingredients.

[sugarysweet95]

Yeah i think i must, but then I have tried (even in my early days) to go with good sellers and i tend to buy a lot at once!!! Anyway guess that means that its mostly from the same ppl, so maybe thats why there's not as much variation. And believe me, I am a perfectionist!!!!

As for the water in the wax issue, surely its Narture's Garden's responsibility to make sure they sell wax that doesn't contain water? That they be more careful and check, after all if you sold accidentally sold a candle with water in you would be to blame!

I just think if that is the problem, they were being sloppy with their storage/suppliers whatever!

[Scented]

Suppliers aren't going to open every case and check it. That's a lot of work. They'll make it right if there is water in there. Most do.

Keep in mind it isn't NG making its own slabs. It's coming from somewhere else. Heck I had a case that was more hollow inside than anything else. I didn't expect the people I got it from to test it for that. That's a boatload of work that frankly should be the manufacturer's problem not the supplier.

[cybersix]

Believe it or not, water in the wax isn't uncommon. Slabbing equipment can use water to cool the wax and certain container waxes have been notorious for arriving waterlogged from manufacturing. I've even seen pockets of water embedded in slabs of straight paraffin.

This summer, I had some cases delivered on a rainy day, plus it was humid where the wax was stored. Two months later I'd get occasional droplets in the melted wax from using a corner or edge of one of those slabs, where the wax was a little beat up and absorbed moisture. All kinds of ways for it to get in.

ok, I'll retire in a corner :tiptoe:

[Michi]

Yeah i think i must, but then I have tried (even in my early days) to go with good sellers and i tend to buy a lot at once!!! Anyway guess that means that its mostly from the same ppl, so maybe thats why there's not as much variation. And believe me, I am a perfectionist!!!!

As for the water in the wax issue, surely its Narture's Garden's responsibility to make sure they sell wax that doesn't contain water? That they be more careful and check, after all if you sold accidentally sold a candle with water in you would be to blame!

I just think if that is the problem, they were being sloppy with their storage/suppliers whatever!

Nature's Garden can't be expected to "see" or check for water inside wax that comes from the manufacturer, just how would they "check"??? Melt each case down and make sure? They made good on it, even though they probably don't really know if it was IN the wax when customer rec'd it, or if there was some "user error". To ME, that's good customer service!!

User Error- Example: occasionally I'd turn the fire up under my double boiler at first, just to get things going, and then if I didn't turn it down before the water started to boil, I sometimes would get a plop of water in my pour pot, definitely MY fault. Things of that nature.

As for testing, when I first started 3 years ago, I wanted to try and find a way to test quickly, I'd get a bunch of different containers that I wanted to use (I only do container candles) and make a bunch of different candles, but then realized very quickly, that focusing on ONE container with a few different wicks, until I found the perfect throw, burn, etc. was actually quicker, less stressful, etc.

Yes, buying in large quantities (wax and FO's) will probably save you some testing time, if you've tested it thoroughly up front, but I remember a while back, someone had ordered an FO that they purchased on a reg. basis, and they were really flabbergasted that it was burning differently. Come to find out, this FO had been RE-formulated and customers had not been notified of this change. Just some food for thought.

There are sooooo many variables in ALL aspects of this art/craft/hobby/business and anyone who says there isn't, well........

gatinha- you said you were/are ordering some wax from Peak, I just wanted to let you know that you picked a great supplier to deal with, I have NEVER been disappointed with their customer service or products.

Keep at it, read up/search on specifics that you're working on and try and find advice from posters that match up with what the majority are saying-ya know? I mean, don't take the advice that seems the easiest, just because it IS the easiest, do a search, look at many posts to see if most are agreeing with that advice, and then you'll have a STARTING place for YOUR testing.

This is what I did, and STILL do almost every single day!!

Good Luck to you, can't wait to see some of your creations in the gallery.