Soy candles sold as lotion

[Jeannie]

Well, I know this has been discussed on here before but I had my first real experience today and I must say it made me a bit angry

I went to a small art/craft show in my home town and there was a soy candlemaker there. Right when you walk up there was a big sign "All Natural Soy Candles" and of course all the claims of why soy is better then paraffin.

I'm all for supporting candlemakers, soapmakers...crafter's in general and I usually buy because I value homemade products. It wasn't so much the sign that bothered me, but more so that she felt she needed the sign? Almost like a sales gimmick to draw attention. Anyhow, I walked over to take a sniff, everything was displayed very pretty and neat. The candles looked great, most in wine glasses & different types of containers. She had several candles burning and I couldn't smell anything so I leaned over them and still there was not much scent. I picked one of the unlit ones up and to my amazement it had very little cold throw. Now it looked like soy, the tops were somewhat flakey, but the cold throw was so weak, unlike soy?

So she immediately comes over and says have you ever burned a soy candle? I mean she was really perky almost to the point of pushy in the way she interacted. I told her Yes I have and it was like it threw her all off. She immediately comes back with well have you tried SOY LOTION? And before I could get a word in she grabbed the lit candle in front of me. All I could think to myself......Oh hell no, she isn't going to do that is she? Yep, down in the candle she went, fingers all swirling about (wick still burning)....Soy makes great lotion too.....With a big ole smile on her face!

Well, the smile didn't last long. I didn't need to say anything....I guess the look on my face said it all, totally unimpressed!!! I'm sorry but that has got to be the saddest thing I have ever witnessed.

[kasiem@gmail.com]

I wouldn't want it on my skin, but my mom said the same thing happened to her. :undecided

-kasie

[Jeannie]

Well, it's not so much that it could harm the skin. Of course it could with the wrong ingredients but I would like to assume she did her homework. Asside from the fragrance, I can't help but wonder if the dyes where skin safe as well?

What bothers me is what this is teaching the public in general. There really is no need to do this to make a candle sale. Candles are candles, lotion is lotion. For her to claim it is also lotion is obsurd!!!! Many of us make soy candles and don't use this tatic to sell our candles. How do we know somebody will not assume all soy candles are safe to put on the skin. Afterall it's a soy candle. So they assume soy candles can also be used as lotion. That is setting a lot of us up for possible lawsuits because people WILL assume soy candles are also lotion. Not only that children see what the parents are doing. Kids don't know what the difference between one candle and the next. I don't think it's OK to tell people to stick there hands in fire and expect them to not get burned. It's bad enough the crazy things that the public will do....HENCE all the warning labels that are meaningless.

[kasiem@gmail.com]

I totally agree that they should not be used as a lotion. Not to mention she may use a lot of fo's that aren't skin safe. Just isn't a smart decision.

-kasie

[Jeannie]

Also, correct me if I am wrong but don't all cosmetics legally have to be labeled? I'm pretty sure if you sell soaps, lotions, etc. you have to list the ingredients? I always lable my soaps & lotions. Anything that is ingested through the skin can or may cause allergic reaction.

[Candle Man]

WOW!!! What people will do to sell a product.

I guess we need to add, yet another WARNING!!! to our candles.

WARNING!!! NOT skin safe keep all body parts out of melted wax. Do Not pour melted wax on any body part as it is NOT Safe.

I just might make a Warning sheet that must be read & signed before my customers buy my candles anymore. They would also get a copy to keep. I don't think it would help but maybe worth a try.

[Carriegsxr6]

100% soy wax is skin safe and can be used for lotions, soaps and cosmetics. I have actually used it when making lotion sticks, lip balms and soaps. I really think the only hazard when using it from a candle, is getting burned by the hot wax/flame or getting a reaction from FOs or Colors.

[LynnS]

I had this happen.I was at my booth.In walks 2 ladies and said "down a little from you is a lady who has her candles for lotion".She let us try it and feel how smooth my hand is.So she started this talk as if she was the candlemaker but supposed to have been the customer???? I said NO I would not do that and she kept saying how good it was.SO wouldn't you know MY HUSBAND has to get into the conversation acting as if a great idea.These 2 ladies were so convincing but to me sneaky.I did not pay attention but when they left I had a talk with my husband.I said something there did not seem right.He FINALLY agreed.Honestly I think they were friends of the lady and seeing what I would say and if I would fall for it.

This is a NO NO to me and I don't care about anybody's sales pitch or someone liking that candlemaker's idea.Let them do it and I will stay out of it.HEY think about it if they burn someone they will be sued but here we are being intimidated by what another candlemaker is doing and saying we should take this on as a selling point.OUR CANDLES MAKE A GREAT LOTION.

I would hate for someone to put RED HOT CINNAMON on their hands.We al know some scents are not for the skin.

LynnS

[JenT]

I've seen them before

http://home1.gte.net/vze8n7pq/thenatureshack/id54.html

[Carriegsxr6]

I've seen them before

http://home1.gte.net/vze8n7pq/thenatureshack/id54.html

Those sound like they would be fine, if in fact they were made with essential oils.....but the fragrances they have listed there do not sound like essential oils to me.......

I do agree with the fact that people may start to get confused and think all soy candles are skin safe and not realize that the FOs arent.....

[JenT]

Those sound like they would be fine, if in fact they were made with essential oils.....but the fragrances they have listed there do not sound like essential oils to me.......

Yeah...I thought it was a neat idea when I 1st saw them...but then got thinking about parents with kids....they see mom or dad blow out wick and use as lotion and my god what if they tried it with a reg. candle....I guess it's just not something for everybody!

[Jeannie]

Then they better list on their candles the essential oils that are in them. Some people are extremely allergic to certain EO's since they ARE NATURAL. Plus their are special colors made specifically for the skin and are to be listed on the labeling as well (FDA Approved skin safe).

I really think people are misunderstanding how this really gives the home candlemakers a bad name. So many people jump in without really doing any research and it affects the rest of us in the long run. I guess we could all do this but I know one thing. For me if I choose to sell somebody a lotion it's going to be a quality lotion firsthand. Certainly not for ease of use or to save them a buck or to make a sale. Certainly I would sell them a quality soy lotion if that is what I am after.

[HeavenScentU]

Next we will hear it's ok to drink because it's SOY milk....Just mix with water....

[wookie130]

Yeah, I can see where you were highly annoyed, Jeannie. If you ever have another show with this gal, I would politely point out to her that not all FO's are skin safe, and neither are the dyes. Or, you could just stay quiet, and let her learn her lesson, when someday someone breaks out with a raging skin allergy, someone's child dumps hot soy wax all over himself, etc. I would probably opt for the latter choice.

To me, it seems like such a dumb marketing strategy to show customers how to rub flippin' candle wax into their skin...like it's an added bonus or something, even if it IS safe. If a customer wants something fragrant and smooth to rub into her skin, send her over to the nearest bath and body booth...or give her coupons to The Body Shop. If they want their home to be fragrant and filled with a warm ambiance, then they can stay put and look at my candles.

I'm wondering why the soy chandler at the show didn't bother to smell any of YOUR candles...you mentioned that hers didn't really have any noticeable cold throw. This could be another reason why she was using the candle-as-a-skin-cream bit...she needed something to market her products, because her fragrances just weren't cutting it.

[Di_in_AZ]

I have a problem with chandlers listing soy candles as "natural" in general. Seldom do you see soy candles that are unscented and not colored. The minute you add FO and dyes, you are adding chemicals to the candle. That renders them unnatural.

This is a HUGE problem to people with breathing ailments. I have had enough people come to my stall who honestly believe they can burn "natural" soy candles when they or someone in their family has asthma or some other breathing ailment. I always tell them to not burn any scented candles and that they have been deceived by someone who believes that it is ok to market their products with untruths in order to get a sale.

I do not understand why the FDA does not monitor this as it is a health issue; and I don't understand why the FTC doesn't stop this as it is false advertising. Unless you are using EO's--in which case most times you have to add more chemicals to make it blend with the wax.

[Jeannie]

Oh, I wasn't doing the show myself. I simply just went to buy and support the crafters. I was hoping to find some soap, but no soapers this year.

I totally agree about the fragrance! I think if she would have focused more on that she may have done very well for herself. The presentation was very nice but the smell of the candles was no were near good. I have no clue what I was even smelling it was so weak. She lost my sale first based on that. Then she set herself up when she had candles burning that had NO THROW! Generally when you walk up to a candle booth the first thing you notice is all the wonderful aroma's. It's the scent that draws people in!!!! The lotion gimmick was just the icing on the cake for me. First, she stuck her hands in the "LIT" candle. That is what she is teaching people! Second, if I can barely smell it as a candle, how am I going to smell it on my skin? I buy lotion for the same reason, because it SMELLS GOOD. I didn't see people buying? And if they did, how long before they realise this wasn't so good? A quick buck today may be an empty nest tomorrow!

I didn't speak to her about any of it, I took the exit. I wasn't there to destroy her or put her down. Even if I told her what I thought, do you think she would really listen? A lot of people are making false claims about their candles just like the girl who claims those are EO's.....NOT. There is no way to stop people like that, so many are doing it! In the long run people like that will destroy themselves. It's what it does to the rest of us that worries me. What they are teaching the public which is passing on to the children. The general public does not understand one candle from the next. Children do not know what is a soy candle and what is not. Now they start playing with hot candles cause Mommy does it. And when the fad dies because people start getting hurt, how do you stop it then? Do we now have to include on your candles "DO NOT USE ON YOUR SKIN." "DO NOT PUT YOUR FINGERS IN BURNING CANDLE."

[Crowded House]

"DO NOT USE ON YOUR SKIN." "DO NOT PUT YOUR FINGERS IN BURNING CANDLE."

I have had a similar "suggestion" on my site for some time. I got the idea after Jimmy Belasco (I think it was him) bragged about frying chicken in soy wax and eating it.

I didn't want anyone eating my candles, even if they do smell good and are made with soy wax. And if we need a warning on clothes irons reminding us to take the clothes off before we iron them, well...

[wookie130]

Jeannie, I totally understand where you're coming from...but I thought you were doing the show as well...sorry for the confusion! Well, the fact that no one seemed to be buying her product reveals a lot about what people are genuinely looking for in their candles. They want SCENTS!!! If they truly want a lotion/cream, and they want one that is fragrant, they'll definitely by-pass this lady. And her dipping her fingers into a lit candle is just absolutely irresponsible as a business-person. My goodness, it doesn't reflect well on her...but I disagree about it having to reflect poorly on the rest of us. The best we can do as chandlers in our own businesses, is make safe quality products with diverse and powerful scents, and label them in hopes that the customer does not use the product in a way that it was not intended...if this means we're going to have to start adding a "not intended for external use on the skin" to our warning labels...well, it might come to that...it's a shame, because one's irresponsibility can effect the entire candle-making community. Personally, it seems so silly to have to even consider putting that on a warning label...how many people even thought about dipping their fingers into hot wax and smearing it onto themselves a few years ago? Probably not many...it was basically a universal understanding that candles were meant to be burned, rather than applied to our bodies. *sigh* There will always be a village idiot.

[SassyLady]

I was introduced to soy candles in just that manner, and did (gasp) dip my fingers into soy candles for a while. Never had any problems or reactions to the FO. I can't say when I stopped dipping, I just did at some point, and wouldn't ever tell anyone that dipping is a good idea, just too dangerous, you don't know what some people will do. That being said, I do use the dregs of my pour pot to rub into my hands and arms after pouring. I use all body safe FO's and there is nobody there to see me. Soy wax is an awesome moisturizer. Someone is gonna come up with a soy wax warmer for spas/nail techs and it's gonna be a big hit, mark my words. I think it's actually a good idea from a legal point of view to add a disclaimer to warning labels "not intended for use as hand lotion". Liability is always an issue in any business these days.

Lisa

[Gretchen]

I've been asked about these several times lately by customers. I point out all the reasons why it's not such a great idea, and also point out that by basically taking away some of the wax, but dipping in, the potential hazard that poses for the candle as it burns further. Think about that; before you know it, the wick will be basically hanging out there on it's own! Can you say infurno!? Those people are idiots! (The ones selling; guess the customers aren't too bright either, for that matter!) (But then how boreing would this planet be without the idiots? )

I hit the link to their site; I noticed on the links to the right 'site awards'; clicked it and these three graphics appeared. I was click-happy and went elsewhere before my brain told me to check them out. I was tooling around their site; the picture of their lotion candle did not show and I couldn't get it to (Computer-idiot here!), their soaps looked eh, so-so, and their regular candles looked, well like candles. Site awards? Are they for real? The thingy I opted not to click to 'run active x' or whatever, caused a blip for my computer and before I knew it I had an option to 'send an error report' (which I never do), and it shut down all my internet site windows. Admittedly, I am not the brightest star in the sky when it comes to computers, but you can bet that pissed me off! They're on my sh-t list now!

Gretchen

[Jeannie]

Well, nobody said we can't dip our fingers in it I think it's a great idea to market a product for this very reason. As a warming lotion, but not as a candle. That is were the line should be drawn!

I think the quality of both would be so much better designed around their intended use. Why would one limit their candles to only skin safe FO's so that they could sell it as a lotion? What happens when they decide they don't want to sell their candles as lotion anymore? Are they going to retrain each and every one of those customers they are no longer safe? Why confuse the public? It affects us all as the rest of us will have to be explaining why we chose not to do it. And that's not to say they still won't do it.

Soy is also editible but we don't tell our customers to eat our candles? Or do we? I know they smell good but "Warning...DO NOT EAT CANDLE."

LMAO at the Iron warning!!! It's so true! The things people will do is amazing!

[Casey]

I've been doing shows all year, and I am confronted with this lotion thing more and more often. People seem to love the idea of it, they come up and want to know if these are the candles that can blah blah blah..."cures excema symptoms" was on some buy and sell dudes printed booth banner at a "handcrafed only" show! So then I have to sigh and say I don't recommend it, why I am uncomfortable marketing my product that way, what the possible dangers are and such. All that wasted breath just to lose a damn sale and get looked at like I'm the asshole with 2 heads. Very annoying. To add insult to injury, I only have 1 damn scent that isn't body safe in my entire line of soy candles, and it is 40% of a blend, so ttl content on it is less than 2%. Grrrr...

[Luci]

I've had several friends and acquaintances asking me about this, too. I just tell them no and why I think it's all so silly. I let them know that I have some very good lotion that comes in a bottle and doesn't require a flame.

[Crafty1_AJ]

I would hate for someone to put RED HOT CINNAMON on their hands.We al know some scents are not for the skin.

LynnS

LOL! When I get even a tiny smidge of cinnamon fo's on my skin accidentally, that patch gets red and itchy in a red hot second! Even after I wash it off, it's irritated for a while! Bleah!

[awickedscent]

Im really glad that you all keep telling people that they are not a good idea. It keeps driving my sales up. My distributor just placed an order for over 150 last week and a large order was placed for a shop in SF. Thanks for all the help you guys are giving me.