Wicking 3" Palm Wax Pillars

[a1190w]

Ok you guys

I've been reading the posts on these types of pillars and am testing them right now.

I'm a bit puzzled and confused though. I've posted this on other Boards too cause I really need to tap your experiences & Expertise in this subject

I use the astrolite F & G wax with a 6% F/O load. I'm using BCN'c Cucumber melon for my tests.

I've read where some of you guys are using RRD 47 thru 55's in your 3" pillars.

I would really like to know what criteria you are using to evaluate your candles.

I have a 3" wicked down to a RRD29 and get a wall blowout after 5 hours of burn. When I use a RRD47 i get a blowout after 3 1/2 hour of burn. Seems I can't find a wick small enough for these pillars. When the pillar gets 2" down, Heat buildup in the shell is higher so burn time is less before I get a blowout

When you design your pillars, How long do you figure someone will burn them? I've been told to design for 8 hours continuous burn. What is your F/O Load. I believe Astrolight recommends 6% for the Palm waxes

Got some 6" diameter 3 wicks that do real well for 8 hours with HTP62's and 5" diameters with HTP52's.

I've got the 4" diameters pillars down pretty good. They can burn for 8 hours and still have 1/4"-3/8" walls left using #5 square Braid wicks.

I just don't understand how you can use a RRD 47 or even a 50 in a Palm wax 3" diameter pillar, Would someone explain it ?

Andy

[SheilaW]

I just don't understand how you can use a RRD 47 or even a 50 in a Palm wax 3" diameter pillar, Would someone explain it ?

Andy

Rule of thumb for burn is 1 hr. per 1" diameter of candle. Most caution labels for candles that I have read say not to burn longer than 3 hrs. Granted, when I'm testing I will power burn one because there are people that will exceed the 3 hrs. When dealing with the palm, one of the reasons that wicking is tricky is because if you get the perfect burn for 3 hrs. then you will for sure have a blowout if you burn it longer. If you have the wicking perfect for those 8 hr power burns then burning it correctly will leave too large of a shell. This was the biggest problem I had when trying to wick the 2" palm. I try to find the size that wont blowout and yet doesn't leave a large shell.

If you are wicking all your pillars for 8 hr. burns then they will be underwicked when only burning a couple of hours at a time.

[Jeana]

I've been using the RRD34 in a concave mold. I have found mold type makes a really big difference in the wick you can use. I can burn mine for 5 or 6 hours without blow outs. My palm is from candlewic. I don't load them up with fo. I figure they are more for looks than smell.

It's good you have the 4" ers down. I have to start on those soon.

[Henryk]

Andy, can't help you with RRDs, but for what its worth, here is post from a couple years ago I did testing LX wicks in candlewic's Palm 3 (which is their version of astorlite F).

http://www.candletech.com/cgi-local/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=veggiewax;action=display;num=1109546860;start=

Sheila is absolutely right, any candle wick suggestions needs to be taken into consideration with the burn times. For my pillar test, since I burn mine for ~6 hours - a typical evening at home for me - that is what I test for.

[Stella1952]

Because palm wax manufactured from different sources seems to have noticably different properties, I am hesitant to recommend anything unless I know someone is using the exact same wax that I use...

Along with the questions Andy posed in this thread, I would like to know exactly what criteria should be measured in a burn test and what is the "standard" we are trying to achieve?

I have been testing for a 3 hour burn, then a 2 hour burn, then another 2 hour burn... total of 7 hours. I weigh the candle before the test and after each burn to see how much wax has been consumed. I note the melt pool diameter, the flame height and the length of the wick (before trimming for the next burn). Am I missing anything (besides my mind...)?

[SheilaW]

Stella, that is an excellent point. I had thought that the palms were pretty similar but since more people are using it and posting about it I now realize that palm from different suppliers behaves differently. As far as your tests they sound good to me. The reason I started power burning at least one pillar during my testing is because my dear sister ( who happens to be one of my best friends ) called me one day to let me know that a lemon pound cake pillar that I had given her had a blowout. I was asking all the usual questions and found out she had fired it up around 8:00 am and the blowout occurred at around 7:00 pm She had been burning it the entire 11 hours:whistle: and this is someone that I had repeatedly told the "proper" way to burn.

[Stella1952]

If you have the wicking perfect for those 8 hr power burns then burning it correctly will leave too large of a shell.... I try to find the size that wont blowout and yet doesn't leave a large shell.

If you are wicking all your pillars for 8 hr. burns then they will be underwicked when only burning a couple of hours at a time.

Maybe power burning as a test is not an entirely bad idea! Although I usually am very careful not to burn any candle for more than 3 hours (less if they are tealights), I DO occasionally space out, fall asleep, wander off or just plain forget about them.:embarasse It's nice to have an idea of what would happen if someone "power burned" them... Maybe it'd be a good idea to do a test now and again without trimming the wicks because many folks have never trimmed a wick in their lives and cannot be convinced that it matters! Until I started reading up, I always left mine about 1/2" long and never trimmed them unless they 'shroomed or got ratty. Thanks to you folks, I am now a changed woman!

I am very impressed at how hard folks here work to make high quality products! It takes a lotta love to keep trying and y'all are an inspiring bunch!!

[a1190w]

Henrk,

I love that link you supplied, I must have missed it when scanning the board but i'd say its pretty telling. you do great work. Got a sampler pack of LX's here some place & will give them a try.

I use the square braid wicks on the 4" dia pillars and the work well. I didn't have the problems that you seemed to have had in your testing. I primed them in the f wax also.

Someone noted that the wax performance is bifferent from company to company. That may be a problem also in trying to be consistent. I just ordered a Bag of G & F wax. The last wax I used was Astrolight but I guess they don't sell it anymore.

Personally I think testing criteria should be agreed upon, either that, or when talking about wicking these buggers we should all put burn times in our posts along with F/O loads. Without them i think were not comparing that same things, and it gets real confusing. Personally, I'm wicking these for a 5 hour continuous burn time and thats going to be my standard.

All you guys are great in responding, thanks a million.

Andy

[a1190w]

Henrk,

I'll tip one in your Honor.

The post you referred me to with regards to your wick tests were great. I had a LX Sampler kit here, its been laying around for 2 years, never been real thrilled with them for one reason or another, been an HTP man myself. I started with the LX20 and wound up with the LX24. Was going to try the LX26 but after 7-8 hours, I said the @@ is it, don't need to do more. Had it burning all day, about 10,11 hours and it did beautifully. Left about a 1/4-3/8 shell at the wax pool tapering to paper thin at the top. Gonna try it in a few more different scents but I think we got a winner

Just want to thank you for your efforts.

Andy

[Candlelovr]

Im really glad this was posted because Im currently testing Astorlite F in a 3.5" pillar. I first tried RRD 50 and it was too big, had a blow out after 3 hrs. Then I tried #1/0 square braid cotton and its too small. After 3 hrs I had a 1.5" shell. Now Im trying the RRD 47. Im gonna power burn it and see how long it takes for it to blow out on me. I'll post the results.

[Gbhunter]

Strange I have had really bad results with starburst palm from candlewic when I used RRD anything or any of the LX series. The flames died down and were barely visable. Fos some reason the 45 ply flat braid worked for me. Go figure. The 60 ply is good for short burns but on long burns i will most certainly get a blow out. I will do some burn test since I have some candles and you guys can be the judges I will wick one 45 while the other 60 snd burn till something gives. Will post pictures and so forth.

[Stella1952]

It was fun to read this old thread! I had a lot of questions back then about palm wax & wicking! I test slightly differently now - 1 hour per inch of diameter, then a powerburn when I am satisfied with those tests. I wick to deliberately leave a shell. I have used three different wicks with palm wax with good results. I use square braid in novelty mold candles; CDs in votives and CDNs in pillars. A CDN 12 gives me very good results in a 3" pillar. The flame does die down somewhat, but does not drown out. Instead, the wick burns slowly, but truly, which works out well for the goals I am looking to achieve. Starburst is my hands-down favorite.

It'll be interesting to see your flat braid tests and how they go. Thanks for bringing this one back to the top.

[EricofAZ]

I make 3" diameter pillars out of Feathering palm and use a #4 square braid. It seems to work fine for shorter or longer burns.

It pools to within 1/8 inch of the edge and tunnels down within a few hours and a power burn tends to cause the tops to cave in on it. On rare occasion, like a 12 hour burn, it will open the side wall and leak out a bit.

[Gbhunter]

Okkie The test is about to comence It will be a 3 hour burn.

Both candles are made of the same palm starburst wax Both wicks have been soacked in the same wax as what the candle is made out of.

Both Candles have the same amount of color all be it different color.

The pouring temperature was 200F on both candles. The red candle has been wicked with 60 ply flat braid(I expext this to be the failure)

The Yellow on was wicked with 45 Ply(It has worked well in the past however only when soacked in the same wax as the candle)

The candles are both 3 inch diamater hexagon and are 6 inches tall.

I will time the burn with a (dont laugh) machanical clock that used to be used in SU-25 ,Tu-22 and other Russian aircraft from the cold war era(The clock was used to time nuke drops or high alt bomb drops)

Let The test Comence!

I will Attamept to take pictures every 20-30 Minutes.

[Gbhunter]

Looks like I will push the test past the 3 hour mark.. I will aim for 6 then 9

[Gbhunter]

Well its been 5 hours and I have to admit I am suprised. The 60 ply is burning well and strong with no blow outs. How ever it burns more like a paraffin(no nice glow as the flame decends into the candle). on the 45 ply the flame has decended into the candle and it gives off a very nice glow(this is the type of burn i personally like. Even if a somewhat larger shell is left I jusr re-melt it and make a new candle....IfI were to sell these however....might be a different story. On a side note while the test has been going on I had a 3rd candle also a star palm wicked with 45ply but this one was FO to the max(5-6%) The 45 in this candle is behaving exactly like the 60 in the non FO on(one note is that the FO candle is round not hexagon like the other 2 test subjects). One thing I will say that even with 5-6% FO it has a scnet throw that is much better than the 10% FO and 3 week cure time with soy(444 wax). I decided to super burn the test to about 1-2 am EST I will post the results tomorrow.. Or I will continue to burn the candles day by day till they are used up and then examine.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Gbhunter

[Gbhunter]

The testing is not finished since if possible I will burn the candles out. But at 7h:30 min in to the burn the 60 ply startet showing sigs of blowing out on multiple sides. The flame never made it below the candle line. The 45 burned for 12 no blow out but it does leave a shell of about 1 inch(gives offf a nice glow), however as the flame slowly goes bleow the candle line the all thins.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Gbhunter

[Orchid Lake]

We've found the LX series of wicks to work best with the waxes we use - as mentioned, it does vary with wax manufacturer - and ordering sample packs is a very good way to test a broad range of wicks

[Gbhunter]

Well I finished the test. Once I get the photos to my web site I will post them. The 45 ply flat braid left a rather tall shell(although most of it was paper thin).

The 60 ply did not leave a shell at all, however

after about 5 hours the 60 ply did "blow out". At no point did the wax actually leak out(it just looked really ugly). If I could get a say 53 ply it would be a perfect match to my 3" palm pillars, alas no such wick exists.

The 45 worked well enough.

Currently I am burning a 3" plam that has a full FO load with the 45 ply and it is burning perfectly just like my imagined 53 ply would

[EricofAZ]

I'm bumping this thread because I'm having a time of it wicking a palm container. I plan to add a bit of dye and 6 percent EO but for now I'm just trying to get the basic wicking down with only the wax and nothing else in it.

The container is a tumbler, slightly bulging in the middle, 2 inches tall, 2 1/2 inches diameter at the largest area.

50/50 Feather/Starburst. No EO

So far:

Square 3 worked fine with a wall to wall burn but the container was very hot to touch and I don't like this.

HTP1212 tunneled at 2 inches

ECO 12 tunneled at 2 inches

15 ply tunneled at 1 3/4 inches

Square 2 tunneled at 2 inches

ECO 14 seemed to go near wall to wall but container was hot.

Tonight I'm ditching the starburst and trying a CD14 with feather palm only and I might go back to the mix with an 18 ply to see how that works.

I read where CD's from Wedo tend to handle high MP waxes which is what I consider palm to be.

[ebcandles]

For years, I used RRD 34 in the 3inch palm pillars and RRD 40 in the 4inch palm pillars. Since then, my supplier no longer supplies the wax.

[EricofAZ]

Ok, CD 14 tunneled at 2 inches or less. Container was not very hot at all.

I think I'll go ahead and try an RRD 47 or a substantially higher Ply number.

[Stella1952]

CD 14 tunneled at 2 inches or less

Palm wax tunnels, period. When burning a palm wax pillar, the initial "shell" left seems thick - too thick. But when one continues to burn down into the candle, the sides start thinning out from the concentrated heat from the wick. The interior of the sides start to weep - slowly but surely. The initial thickness of the walls thins out the longer and further down in the pillar the candle is burning. The same thing happens with container palm wax candles.

Palm wax has a very narrow amount of time between the liquid and the solid state, unlike soy or paraffin waxes. It does not soften, become pliable or mooshy. It's pretty much either solid or liquid. The MP is hard bottomed and always about 1/2" or so in depth. The depth will not increase because the distance from the source of heat will not allow it to become hot enough to maintain a soft, deep melt pool like soy or paraffin. The MP is not going to get much over 2" initially, but it will expand as the candle burns down. This is also why palm wax candles cannot be "hugged" - the wax is too hard and brittle.

I use a CDN 12 in 3" pillars. I want the candle to leave a fairly uniform shell and the 12 works best in most FOs for my candles. HTH