ascentscandle Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Just looking to get some discussion going...Astorlite palms are being sold to IGI due to a major problem with the "raw product".As Honeywell spells it out, they are tired of dealing with the differences each season....massive coorporation selling off a tiny piece. The current problem with the new palm (I use PQ) is the release...there is none. You will notice another difference is the old PQ came in pellets and the new PQ is in granular form. This is not the problem tho...Candlewic's Palm 2 is granular and is fine (for now). As I understand it...there is one major processor in Malaysia who really doesn't care that it doesn't release...Palm is used for so many things, candles are near the bottom of the list.The new PQ looks the same and burns the same...just can't get it out without an air-compressor!I am currently working on different formulations to try to figure out what's missing. Any advise out there?? Did I get any of the above information wrong?Julianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaybee23 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I can't help you with your questions, but I thought IGI bought all of the Honeywell waxes including all of their palm waxes. I could be wrong on this. Maybe someone else will come along that knows for sure and can answer your question better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascentscandle Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 hmmm maybe so.not sure actually...thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietgirl2004 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 The PQ is very different than the old stuff. It doesnt hold the fo and I cant get it out of molds for nothing! And Ive got like 40 pounds of it sitting here and Im disgusted as h%^&^* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaybee23 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 The PQ is very different than the old stuff. It doesnt hold the fo and I cant get it out of molds for nothing! And Ive got like 40 pounds of it sitting here and Im disgusted as h%^&^*I know this doesn't help much, and since you have already invested so much in the 40 lbs you have, I am sure you probably don't want to invest more. Maybe if it were mixed with some of the Palm wax from Candlewic, it might help. I played with the Astorlite waxes a bit, but wasn't that impressed with the scent throw even though they were beautiful candles. Have not had a chance to play much with the Palm from Candlewic yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietgirl2004 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 No Im very disheartened with it by now. I used to use it to make tarts and they popped right out. Not now. And I still have a pillar stuck in the mold. Done everything short of throwing the darn mold away! Maybe one of these days Ill throw it in the oven to melt it and reclaim my mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdevine Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I use 5% Palm Stearic and once mine have cooled, they just fall out of my molds. HTH Portia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanmala Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I understand your problem well. I ended up throwing in just a tiny bit of IGI 4786 in with my palm granules. Problem solved and it didn't hurt the appearance of the wax either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaybee23 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Something else I didn’t think about until now. Vybar 343 is usable in the palms without disturbing the crystallizing effect too much. It is also supposed to be good for being able to add a larger amount of FO. I don’t remember exactly how much I tried, but I used it for the Q wax. Not sure if it would help in the release though. Just throwing something out there…..I feel your frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascentscandle Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 I understand your problem well. I ended up throwing in just a tiny bit of IGI 4786 in with my palm granules. Problem solved and it didn't hurt the appearance of the wax either.Great discussion!! Thanks.What is IGI 4786? My product line is strictly vegi...Also, is Vybar a petroleum product?...I've heard of it, but never used it.My experiment went better than expected. I poured at 205 (hotter than they say to use). Once they were completely cool, I was able to flex the mold to release the sides. This will make production harder since I used to be able to get them out well before they were cool, so I could move on. It was easier with 5% stearic....and better yet with 50% old PQ and 50% new PQ. None of my tests included my EOs...that's next.My supplier suggested getting a mini air-compressor, which I may still do.My other test will be to melt these three tests down and repour. I have found in the past that this causes more shrink.Candlewic's Palm 2 was really weird...crystals on the bottom fading to almost no crystal on the top and has a really strange vinegar smell when melted. It did come right out, but made a bigger air pocket than normal. Given what the Malaysian's said, I think Candlewic has added something to it for release...as I understand it, there is no other raw palm available now...so Candlewic will have to work with it too.Julianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottopus Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 What is IGI 4786? According to the IGI website:PARAFFLEX® 4786 is a specialty formulation of petroleum derived waxes specifically modified for use in the manufacture of container candles. PARAFFLEX® 4786 is a hard, smooth, opaque and creamy blend that shows up color well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottopus Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Also, is Vybar a petroleum product? According to the Baker Petrolite website:VYBAR Polymers are specialty low molecular weight olefin based polymers. Our proprietary and patented ethylene, alpha-olefin and graft polymerization processes yield unique products such as linear low molecular weight polyethylenes, polymeric primary alcohols, and highly branched polyalphaolefins.Olefin is according to Fire Net :Olefin: An alkene. An organic compound similar to an alkane, but containing at least one double bond. Olefins have the formula CnH2n. The simplest olefin is ethylene, C2H4.Ethylene is according to Wikipedia:Ethylene is produced in the petrochemical industry via steam cracking. In this process, gaseous or light liquid hydrocarbons are briefly heated to 750–950 °C, causing numerous free radical reactions to take place. Generally, in the course of these reactions, large hydrocarbons break down in to smaller ones and saturated hydrocarbons become unsaturated.The result of this process is a complex mixture of hydrocarbons in which ethylene is one of the principal components. The mixture is separated by repeated compression and distillation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeana Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I know this doesn't help much, and since you have already invested so much in the 40 lbs you have, I am sure you probably don't want to invest more. Maybe if it were mixed with some of the Palm wax from Candlewic, it might help. I played with the Astorlite waxes a bit, but wasn't that impressed with the scent throw even though they were beautiful candles. Have not had a chance to play much with the Palm from Candlewic yet.I recently bought some from candlewic - both palm 2 and 3 - and I am having the same issue. I thought I was doing something different. I have to use the aircompressor to get them out too. My old batch from them did not have this problem. I made some tarts that will not release. I even put them in the freezer, nothing. So bottom line, is vibar a natural additive? I am with ascentscandle, I am trying to keep my line all vegetable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascentscandle Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 I recently bought some from candlewic - both palm 2 and 3 - and I am having the same issue. I thought I was doing something different. I have to use the aircompressor to get them out too. My old batch from them did not have this problem. I made some tarts that will not release. I even put them in the freezer, nothing. So bottom line, is vibar a natural additive? I am with ascentscandle, I am trying to keep my line all vegetable.I guess not... Scottopus gave us tons of info...Thanks!My Palm 2 from Candlewic did come out easy, but I hated the smell and the crystals were messed up.so far my best results came from mixing the old PQ with the new PQ in an effort to strectch it out untill the new crop comes in.... Tho I understand that IGI has no intention of buying more until this is gone....not sure.My next plan is the try adding some EcoSoya Pillar...just enough not to interupt the crystal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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