TMeeks Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Ok, I've got the my rustics down and I'm loving it. Now I'm working on mottled candles (for one of my customers). Last week, I made several and they turned out great. Yesterday and today I tried and guess what....I have yet to get the mottled effect. I'm using 1343. Any tips anyone would like to share?! Please.....TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Cool very slowly. DOn't know how hot you were pouring, but maybe pour a little hotter, wrap the mold to slow down the cooling and leave it alone for 12 hours, maybe longer. Not sure how much FO you're using either, but a splash or two more might help ... and last, what additives, if any? A couple of T of steric pp of wax ought to help with seepage and won't kill the mottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMeeks Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 I poured the last batch at about 190 (per candle co instructions), I poured the batch yesterday much cooler and got the same effect I did today. I have about 1oz pp of FO, but no additives. Could I have too much FO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryinCary Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I would try the stearic at 2-3 tbl. pp, pour around 180 deg. and cool real slowwww. I normally use 1 oz. pp of FO and get great mottles using that combo. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryinCary Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I poured the last batch at about 190 (per candle co instructions), I poured the batch yesterday much cooler and got the same effect I did today. I have about 1oz pp of FO, but no additives. Could I have too much FO?We must have posted at the same time...I didn't see this reply...I don't think you are using too much fo at all. Try the stearic and make sure you cool it slow. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 what kind of dye are ya using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 No you don't have too much FO. Try knocking down your temp then to 185 and cool it extremely slow. Insulation may help. Just wrap a towel or something around the mold or even put a box over it. I can get mottling even at 180. I'd try those temps first and if you can't get it put in an extra splash of F0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMeeks Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'm using liquid dye. I will try cooling them in a box and adding the steric and see if that helps. Thanks for the advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 So what can you think of that's different from last week?I have to very respectfully differ with the suggestion that you need to cool more slowly. I'm not saying the basic principle is wrong, but with air cooling it's hard to make the difference between yes-mottle and no-mottle just based on cooling rate.Too much FO could not possibly be the problem, because the more FO the more mottle and you can take that as far as you like (if you don't mind oil gushing from your candle).So answer that first question, but I'll venture to guess that the difference is a different FO. Results can vary wildly between them. Try adding more.One more thing I must respectfully differ with is the suggestion to play around with additives at this point. The scenario where you are using just wax and FO is nice and simple. You can solve your basic problem more easily by just keeping it that way. Additives are designed to solve other problems. You mainly need to play with the amount of oil because that's what it's mostly based on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMeeks Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Last week, I didn't add any additives, cooled them on the countertop (nothing special) and used the same FO. The only thing I did do different is I only melted enough wax to do one candle at a time, and this time I made enough to do 2 or 3. We will see. Thanks again everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenia Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I took a piece of foam, cut it to fit around the mold and taped the whole shebang together with duct tape. You know what a can cozy is? Picture a pillar cozy if you will. After pouring, I stuck a potholder over the top. I found that the candle cooled extremley slowly and the mottling was even and intense. I did use stearic at the rate of 2 T pp and poured at 180.e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Sounds like you're doing everything right. Just cooling them on the counter should work fine. I suspect you accidentally got the proportions a little different than you did last week.IGI has done research into mottling and the results are very simple, so just file these things away in your brain:1 - Mottling is basically determined by the amount of stuff you pour into the wax that remains liquid at room temperature. Not enough mottle, pour in more stuff (FO or mineral oil or even liquid dye). This liquid phase stuff disrupts the formation of the paraffin crystals as the wax cools and creates the mottle effect.2 - Cooling rate affects the amount of surface mottling, but it's a secondary factor. It wouldn't make as big a difference as you seem to be getting unless you cooled in a water bath or something. If in the future you decide you want more mottling with a given amount of oil, you can experiment with the cooling rate.3 - Just about every additive will suppress mottling. Most of them will just kill it completely even with addition rates below 1%. With some of them you'd have to add a little more, or in the case of stearic fair amount more.4 - They didn't find any correlation with pouring temp at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alohagirl Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I'm wondering if you're using a different batch of wax than you used last week. There is a version of 1343 called "1343N" and the N stands for non-mottling. Maybe that's why you can't get it to mottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I took a piece of foam, cut it to fit around the mold and taped the whole shebang together with duct tape. You know what a can cozy is? Picture a pillar cozy if you will.Nifty. I've thought about doing that and will hopefully get around to it sometime soon. That can cozy stuff is the foam I envisioned. Do they sell that sort of material at the hardware or home improvement stores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenia Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 The one I used was from the hardware store, sold as A/C insulation. I happended to have it on hand and I like to experiment. e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Too much FO could not possibly be the problem, because the more FO the more mottle and you can take that as far as you like (if you don't mind oil gushing from your candle).So answer that first question, but I'll venture to guess that the difference is a different FO. Results can vary wildly between them. Try adding more.One more thing I must respectfully differ with is the suggestion to play around with additives at this point. The scenario where you are using just wax and FO is nice and simple. You can solve your basic problem more easily by just keeping it that way. Additives are designed to solve other problems. You mainly need to play with the amount of oil because that's what it's mostly based on.If adding more Fo than than the wax is designed for, stearic may be a useful additive. As far as I know, it is to solve the sweating out of excess oil. Of course, I may just be confused still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Tara, for my mottles, I usually add 1-2tbs of stearic with 1 oz FO. I don't cool them any special way, but on the counter. I found if I warmed my mold with the heat gun, I got horrible pitting. *knock on wood* My mottles turn out very nice and even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Man Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I found that I could not use no more than 3/4oz Fo per Lb of wax with no additives or I would get sweeting of excess oil cooled slow and I got an even mottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 If adding more Fo than than the wax is designed for, stearic may be a useful additive. As far as I know, it is to solve the sweating out of excess oil. Of course, I may just be confused still Hey Satin, I didn't mean to say you were wrong -- sorry if that wasn't clear. Adding a little stearic is a pretty common thing to do (although oddly I've also seen it backfire).It's just that when trying to solve a specific problem I try not to throw in unnecessary variables. The question was about getting mottle last week versus getting no mottle this week, so the thing to focus on would probably be the amount of oil added to the wax since that's the main factor in mottling.Once that's squared away, experimenting with some stearic to prevent sweating or to enhance the hardness a bit is probably a good idea just like you said. It's just that the results can sometimes be confusing if you adjust too many things at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMeeks Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Ok guys, I tried it again last night. I made one with steric and cooled it slowly in a box with 1oz FO, poured at 180, liquid dye, and did get some mottling, but very random, not even at all. I also made one the exact way I did last week, no steric, 1 oz FO, liquid color, poured at 180 and left it on the counter to cool. Absolutely no mottling. I'm soooo frustrated! I made several rustics in the meantime and they turned out beatiful! So, that's good. I wouldn't even bother with the other except I have this customer that keeps bugging me to copy a Pier 1 candle that has been discontinued. I'm about ready to tell her to call Pier 1!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Add more oil my friend. It cannot help but mottle, it has no choice. Melt down the one without the stearic, add another 1/4 oz of oil and pour it again (or use 1/2 oz if you want to be sure - you can adjust the recipe later). If it doesn't mottle I'll eat my hat (with a photo to prove i'm doing it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donita Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I was looking at candles at Bed Bath and Beyond with my DH this weekend and was pointing out to him how they all looked different. What FO are you using? I get a different look with different oils.....anything with cinnamon makes a tiny all over mottle for me....and others just make larger snowflakes......I think that the more I mess with them the worse they are....I noticed that years ago when I saw the wax that overflowed onto the counter was a nice mottle and it didn't get to cool slowly. I usually put mine in a box to keep them out of drafts, just to be sure, but sometimes I can pour at 170 and get a good mottle....I think that is is the oil....some are "oilier" than others....doesn't this just drive you crazy??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharyl55 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 What was the temp last week vs. this week. Don't make pillars but noticed it was a lot hotter in my kitchen last week vs. this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Mine keep coming out with the tiny all over mottle. The first couple I did, with craft store wax, had some of the large flakes. Though I did notice that there was just a few spots when unmolded and more formed over the next day. I would love to figure out how to encourage the large spotted snowflakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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