calan Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Does anyone have a link to max temperature ratings for the most common glass candle jars? Specifically, I need them for 9 oz straight-sided jars (Lone Star or Flaming), and the 8 oz smooth-sided Anchor Hocking mason jars. I can't find a single vendor that list the temperature ratings, and Google isn't being much help tonight. Edited November 17, 2020 by calan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calan Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 @TallTayl ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Are you doing palm or beeswax that require hot wicks? Fillmore might be able to help. Most jars used for canning have to be able super hot temps to process for sealing and sterilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 hour ago, calan said: @TallTayl ??? Honestly I have never searched for this info. I often buy canning suitable jars like (jelly and salsa styles) and expect them to withstand typical candle temps. I pressure can, and those temps can get high. The jars all have fallen within typical thermal shock resistance requirements. Likewise, drinking glasses, like libbey brand, are made to withstand commercial dishwashers and should work for candles I would assume. If you make your candles to not exceed 175*F at any point during the burn to follow the ASTM guidelines, you should have a wide variety of options. I wish I had better information for you... Maybe call fillmore, specialty bottle and the like for a pro opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calan Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: If you make your candles to not exceed 175*F at any point during the burn to follow the ASTM guidelines, you should have a wide variety of options. 1 hour ago, NightLight said: Are you doing palm or beeswax that require hot wicks? Fillmore might be able to help. Most jars used for canning have to be able super hot temps to process for sealing and sterilization. I'm using palm in those jars, usually with CSN 7 or CSN 9 wicks. I check my jar temps with both a quick hand grab () and a candy thermometer. My thermal gun usually can't get a lock for a reliable reading...not that I trust it to be all that reliable if it could. I've had a couple get too hot to hold, but not "burn off your flesh" hot. I think I'm ok on steady temperature, but I sometimes worry about shock fractures due to rapid cooling, etc. I'm just overly cautious sometimes, and being an engineer I like to have all my i's dotted and t's crossed. z I browsed around Fillmore's site last night but didn't find anything. I'll give it another shot after work or maybe try to contact them directly. Edited November 17, 2020 by calan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusyBee Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Some candle testing institution might have those data, but it’s going to cost you tons of money for that kind of report. That is if they ever have it. ASTM Standards are not mandatory standards, which means no one has to follow it. Manufacturers & we try to follow it because of safety reasons. Most of canning jars are designed to withstand boiling water which is 212F and above. Very hot coffee is served at 175F. Container of our candle should not be hotter than 150F if it is designed right, so we should be safe with most of candle containers if they are dish washer safe. But why do we see glass candle containers blowing up? It is due to crazy dancing flame. Some bad designed candle’s flame is constantly hitting the wall or getting too close to the wall. Top and outer part of a flame is close to 1,400F. There is no container that will withstand the direct contact with flame. So, if you design a safe candle using dish washer safe containers, you don’t have to worry about temperature rating. However, you might want to do thermal shock test at home. You will find how to do that test in following link. https://eca-candles.com/pdf/WorldCandleCongress/ASTM Standards and the Candle Industry - Becker Moss.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calan Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, BusyBee said: But why do we see glass candle containers blowing up? It is due to crazy dancing flame. Some bad designed candle’s flame is constantly hitting the wall or getting too close to the wall. Top and outer part of a flame is close to 1,400F. There is no container that will withstand the direct contact with flame. So, if you design a safe candle using dish washer safe containers, you don’t have to worry about temperature rating. However, you might want to do thermal shock test at home. You will find how to do that test in following link. https://eca-candles.com/pdf/WorldCandleCongress/ASTM Standards and the Candle Industry - Becker Moss.pdf My biggest concern/issue is the occasional slightly off-center wick in palm. I've found that it doesn't take much to get heat concentration on one side of the jar and melting the "shell", causing considerably more heat in that one area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusyBee Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Is the off-center caused by the wick curling? TallTayl has the solution to solve that problem. According to TallTayl, wick has pattern that shows direction of the wick that is going to curl. If it is wick centering problem, then it is much easier problem to solve. Some centering device or practice... *In my case, I use the wicks that does not curl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Although ASTM are generally regarded as "voluntary" in the event of a candle failure the guidelines are used as the standard during investigations. Yes, The curling wicks lean toward the point of the braid. Since Palm Wax wicks are pretty limited, most at least are a flat braid. The braid on one side of the flat wick is a stack of "V" while the opposite side has little upside down "V". If you can gently twist the wicks before pouring the lava hot wax you may be able to direct the flame around the jar. When twisting don't make the mistake I did and hold the tab. That made the twist happen at a useless point right at the top of the tab neck. Hold the whole length of the wick and visually check that the twist is along the whole length fairly evenly. If you prefer not to twist, you can try slightly offsetting the wick so the curl ends up in the center of the candle. Same principle - the wick will bend toward the peak side of the braid. I've done this on occasion with success. You can either offset the whole wick, or center the tab and pull the wick slightly away from the center to compensate for the lean in the majority of the candle. Maybe @strugglebrother or @Candybee who also use palm often can shine some light on helpful tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calan Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BusyBee said: Is the off-center caused by the wick curling? TallTayl has the solution to solve that problem. According to TallTayl, wick has pattern that shows direction of the wick that is going to curl. 57 minutes ago, TallTayl said: The curling wicks lean toward the point of the braid. Since Palm Wax wicks are pretty limited, most at least are a flat braid. The braid on one side of the flat wick is a stack of "V" while the opposite side has little upside down "V". If you can gently twist the wicks before pouring the lava hot wax you may be able to direct the flame around the jar. When twisting don't make the mistake I did and hold the tab. That made the twist happen at a useless point right at the top of the tab neck. Hold the whole length of the wick and visually check that the twist is along the whole length fairly evenly. It's usually a a little bit of both. I'm pretty anal about getting the wick centered in the jar and keeping it that way (centering tool when placing, centering tabs at top), but it seems to only take a tiny amount off-center to cause an uneven burn in palm. I am using the CSN wicks, and I can't seem to predict the curl with them (There isn't much, but as mentioned, it doesn't seem to take much). I'm still experimenting with twisting the wicks. The problem I was initially having was that you need to twist them at lest two full turns to be effective, but that puts stress on the wick sticker and tab. If the jars are preheated, the tab wants to pull away, etc etc. I'm currently working on a process where I can warm the jars less and still get good glass adhesion and crystalization, while still allowing for a full two or even three complete turns of the wick. I'm burning a couple of test candles tonight using that method, so we'll see how well it works. The other option is to use a hotter wick that makes them burn more like a traditional candle with a full melt pool earlier in the burn. The melt pool is even and the temperature more uniform, but the candle is warmer over-all. Thinking about that trade-off is what prompted this thread. Edited November 17, 2020 by calan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I have the best luck twisting before sticking. If a heat gun is handy I can slightly warm to set the twist. I had the same problems in the beginning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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