Big Development Here!

[Quentin]

2 hours ago, YellowButterfly said:

I also like logos where the name is the logo itself, lol.

Interesting you should bring that up. Back around 1999-2000, I was involved with an organization that was fighting for a certain contentious piece of legislation in Mississippi. We had a shoestring budget (actually we had no money at all) while the opposing side was receiving money from all sorts of celebrities and out-of-state interest groups. The question of how do we get publicity to counter all that. The answer to that turned out to be amazingly simple. Reporters will interview anyone. Especially if you write the story FOR them, as in the form of a press release. But they were a little more reluctant to give contact information for our organization when they published their articles. They would put our organization name in there but not much more. The press was not on our side.

 

The guy leading our group talked around to lots and lots of people and told them our dilemma. He finally had one guy tell him, "That's simple. You just make your website the name or your organization". One and the same. When reporters would ask you the name of your organization, you would simply tell them www.***************.org   Then they had to print it. We put it on all our literature, banners, signs, everything.  What was the result? We won the ballot initiative. We took the vote 65% to 35% statewide.  You can't imagine what a joy it was to beat the fat cat entertainers, corporations and out-of-state bullies with thick wallets.  It wasn't an original idea. It just never occurred to us.  Remember when everyone used to say "I bought it on Amazon.com"?  Now all anyone has to say is Amazon.

[Quentin]

5 minutes ago, Quentin said:

  3 hours ago, YellowButterfly said:

I also like logos where the name is the logo itself, lol.

P.S.--- A little closer to our business, a good example of what you're talking about would be:  candlescience 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Quentin
wrong punctuation

[StanfordP]

On 11/27/2018 at 4:47 PM, Quentin said:

On 11/27/2018 at 11:57 AM, Sebleo said:

One thing to consider with your company name and logo. Do you want to trademark just the name or the logo too? I know I have seen pillar candles being used in logos before. Doesn’t mean you can’t use one too. 

 

I would recommend before going forward with this logo to try and make sure you aren’t infringing on a claimed mark. And that it’s available for you to trademark. 

 

You can can do a search on Us pto.gov.  Go to trademark then do a TESS search. 

 

Trademark names are easy to search, but it think it’s trickier to search for logos. 

 

 

Oh man! So many details keep popping up. It's maddening. Thanks for passing that one on to me. You're right that candles appear in lots of logos. I think it all comes down to how you configure it. For example, lots of furniture stores might use a chair or bed as part of their logo. Still, I better look into it. I guess the next question would be, where do I start when it comes to getting a registered trademark on the name in particular. Supposedly, the logo company did a search of some sort. I better double check with them. In the meantime, if anyone knows please let me know.

Trademarks aren't worth it at this point. First, it's expensive ($250+). Second, the logo is too generic. Take the $250 and invest it in your biz. In 5 years, if you're killing it and going nationwide, then trademark! Good luck!

Edited November 30, 2018 by StanfordP

[Sebleo]

6 hours ago, StanfordP said:

Trademarks aren't worth it at this point. First, it's expensive ($250+). Second, the logo is too generic. Take the $250 and invest it in your biz. In 5 years, if you're killing it and going nationwide, then trademark! Good luck!

 

I disagree. All it takes is for someone else to trademark that company name and Quentin is in a very expensive predicament. Potentially having to change his company name. 

 

The logo doesn’t have to be trademarked. But, if he loves it, he should trademark it to prevent others from doing so. It may be too generic. I would recommend getting with a trademark attorney for a logo. 

 

But, doing the trademark for the company name is a process that can be done on your own. 

[TallTayl]

My two cents.  Make your own logo.  Scribble, doodle, sketch until something speaks to you.  Using a service to create a logo is quick to give some ideas, the same ideas thousands of people will be ultimately using. Your logo is YOU. 

 

Play around with company names. Say it out loud throughout the day.  Pretend you’re giving your 10 second elevator speech to a stranger describing your company.  Does it roll off the tongue? Do you love saying it?

 

In your case, Q, I don’t necessarily see a typical candle.  There’s nothing typical about you (I mean that in the kindest, most sincere way possible ❤️). The “7” could be part of the candle, maybe the drip of the wax over the side of the candle. 

 

It took months to come up with new logos for CraftServer and my other lines of business. The new CS logo above is made of an elongated C and S but are very subtle.  I rebranded my main biz several times before I fell in love with my logo and story. The rest fell into place. Your logo is part of YOU. 

 

As for trademarking, yes it’s expensive.  Unless you’re really in love with your name it may not be worth it.  Businesses evolve, which is sometimes needed to expand the brand, or rebrand altogether. If you’re able to show proof of first use you can often challenge latecomers to your name. Happened with my tag line for a key product. I have clear first published use. 

[Quentin]

Surely in this day and age, there must be some sort of website like "trademarksRus.com" ?

[TallTayl]

10 minutes ago, Quentin said:

Surely in this day and age, there must be some sort of website like "trademarksRus.com" ?

Lordy I wish! But no.

 

you could use legalzoom. Mine ran like $495 and is still not done

[Quentin]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Lordy I wish! But no.

 

you could use legalzoom. Mine ran like $495 and is still not done

I too went through the legalzoom experience. I had a perfect Last Will and Testament done by them. Only one problem. No one in the area would notarize it. My own bank turned me away!

[Quentin]

9 hours ago, TallTayl said:

If you’re able to show proof of first use you can often challenge latecomers to your name.

There is a barbeque restaurant in Mason, Tennessee that has gone by the name of Bozo's for decades. They started in business somewhere back in the early part of the 20th century. [Don't anyone stop reading this. It gets really interesting.] The people that own it don't even know the true story of where the name came from.  It's a landmark. [This is funny but a true story] Anyway, some guy up in Chicago or someplace up there, held the trademark for Bozo, the clown. He found out about this restaurant and sued the restaurant for trademark infringement. Mason, Tennessee is VERY small, but people from all over the United States have eaten there. It was on the main highway before Interstate 40 was built.

 

The owners of this BBQ joint decided to fight the clown in spite of the fact that they couldn't afford the legal fees. They took contributions from customers to help pay for the looming court case. They also took depositions from customers. Hold that thought in your mind. Bozo's BBQ lost round after round in court but they weren't going to be intimidated by Bozo the Clown. At the last court stop before going to the Supreme Court, Bozo's restaurant finally won. Bozo, the clown appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States.  Bozo's BBQ had no money but they had something far more valuable that the lower courts ignored. DOCUMENTATION. SCOTUS noticed it while reviewing whether or not to hear the case. Bozo's had been keeping a guestbook all those decades in business plus all the depositions from customers that generally stated something like this: "As long as I can remember, it's always been called Bozo's BBQ". The clincher, however, was the collection of guest books. The guest book entries showed that Bozo's BBQ had actually had the name years before Bozo the clown ever came on the scene. This was a real David & Goliath story. The Supreme Court of the United States looked at the guest books and the depositions. They refused to hear the case. Bozo's Barbecue is still called Bozo's Barbecue to this day. Almost brings a tear to your eyes.    

[TallTayl]

It’s frustrating that it even got that far given the fact that the name bozo for the clown was likely not trademarked in the same Class as the restaurant. Doubtful that bozo the clown tried to trademark every single possible classification.

 

likewise Bozo’s barbecue is substantially different from bozo the clown. 

 

Given the rounds that I’ve gone through with the lawyers on my trademark one word can be different and it’s indefensible. But good for Bozo’s barbecue I’m so happy with that outcome.

[Quentin]

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

It’s frustrating that it even got that far given the fact that the name bozo for the clown was likely not trademarked in the same Class as the restaurant. Doubtful that bozo the clown tried to trademark every single possible classification.

 

likewise Bozo’s barbecue is substantially different from bozo the clown. 

 

Given the rounds that I’ve gone through with the lawyers on my trademark one word can be different and it’s indefensible. But good for Bozo’s barbecue I’m so happy with that outcome.

I just so happens that I know a little about another court case that relates to what @TallTayl just mentioned. [ I'm sorry folks, but I'm on a roll ]. Autozone Auto parts started out as Auto Shack. Just as their business was starting to really take off, there was a small glitch. A company in another type industry had a problem with the Auto Shack name. Radio Shack felt it sounded too close to their own name. They went to court. Radio Shack won. Auto Shack had to change their name. Thus, they are now known as Autozone. As Paul Harvey used to say: "And now you know the rest of the story". I've been here too long and I think I smell something burning in the garage.  I'd better check that out. Bye.

[Arch Rock]

Great conversation.  My ex is an attorney so I loved the SCOTUS story from Q.  And TT is right about the nature of the biz - it matters.  Many musical bands have been sued and reached SCOTUS review because it's music.  When I registered my therapy practice initially - Family First Behavioral Health - there was someone else in PA who snatched the handle before me and wanted me to buy it from her.  Yeah. . . . no.  So now I'm Family First Counseling Services, LLC.  Boom.  I think the more creative you can be with your name the better.  My first candle company was Open Hearth Candle Company because I lived in a small enclave of Victorian homes built in the 1890's in my small town.  Zero chance of duping that.  (Although there is an Open HEART Candle Co.)  When I moved to Arch Rock Road in a neighboring county and started pouring again, it was a no-brainer to switch to Arch Rock Candle Co.  I haven't done any research to support this opinion, but I would bet that Yankee and Colonial didn't trademark until they got big.

[StanfordP]

18 hours ago, Sebleo said:

 

I disagree. All it takes is for someone else to trademark that company name and Quentin is in a very expensive predicament. Potentially having to change his company name. 

 

The logo doesn’t have to be trademarked. But, if he loves it, he should trademark it to prevent others from doing so. It may be too generic. I would recommend getting with a trademark attorney for a logo. 

 

But, doing the trademark for the company name is a process that can be done on your own. 

 

I think a little explanation might help clarify my point:  registered trademarks serve a purpose, definitely. But for a new company with zero brand equity and no name recognition, it’s not worth it to drop that kind of money right out the gate. Any worthy business attorney would recommend spending that money on developing your product. (Plenty other attorneys would recommend getting the trademark because that’s money in their pocket). 

 

When you start catching on and creating a name for yourself, THEN you trademark. The risk of someone stealing your name as a startup is so small. In the meantime, your marks are protected by first use in your geographic area. When you start expanding to multiple locations or cross country, that’s when trademarking becomes increasingly valuable. 

 

Ultimately, do what makes you feel most comfortable. If you’ll sleep better at night knowing you’ve got coast to coast coverage on your marks, then do it!

[Quentin]

On 11/30/2018 at 4:02 AM, Sebleo said:

But, doing the trademark for the company name is a process that can be done on your own.

I missed this when I first read through your post. How do you trademark the company name on your own? 

[Arch Rock]

If you're serious about trademarking, you need an attorney.

[Quentin]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:57 AM, Arch Rock said:

If you're serious about trademarking, you need an attorney.

Yes. Sadly, they have their hands in everything. No offense toward them intended. That's just the way it is these days.

[Laura C]

On 11/30/2018 at 5:42 PM, Quentin said:

I too went through the legalzoom experience. I had a perfect Last Will and Testament done by them. Only one problem. No one in the area would notarize it. My own bank turned me away!

 

Hi @Quentin, why won't anyone notarize your documents from Legal Zoom? I have thought of doing the same thing, a will and living will, with Legal Zoom but I don't want to waste my time if it won't be legal or legit.

[Laura C]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:52 AM, Quentin said:

I have a new company name and logo. A website and online store are in the works. Check out my new logo and company name here:

https://logojoy.com/s/22958473

 

Hi @Quentin. Did you end up purchasing that logo from LogoJoy? Have you had any problems with the company or your logo? Just wandering because I recently purchased a logo from them and they are no longer returning my emails nor have they fixed the issue I'm having with properly downloading my logo files. It's really bizarre, never had contact/communication just dropped like that with someone I'm doing business with. Could be my emails are being blocked by their SPAM filter or something. I keep trying to be patient and give them the benefit of the doubt but this has been going on for almost a week. I'm currently in the process of contacting them live chat on their website and then next by phone. It's just very strange.

 

>>> Current Buyer Beware Warning with LogoJoy company <<<

Anyway, just want to let people know, anyone that may be interested in buying a logo with them, that this is happening so they should be Aware. I hope this is just some mix up on their part and that there is an explanation and my issue will be resolved ASAP. I will let you all know what happens. 

[Laura C]

3 hours ago, Laura C said:

>>> Current Buyer Beware Warning with LogoJoy company <<<

Anyway, just want to let people know, anyone that may be interested in buying a logo with them, that this is happening so they should be Aware. I hope this is just some mix up on their part and that there is an explanation and my issue will be resolved ASAP. I will let you all know what happens. 

 

Update:

I do not recommend doing business with LogoJoy, you don't get everything that you pay for and they will stop responding to you if they feel like it. I corresponded with LogoJoy again, finally, and they made my logo issue worse. Not only were the files still missing the symbol but now other files were the wrong color. WTF? And one rep basically said that the owner, whom I had replied to previously, does not receive emails, only sends them. LOL, what? So he lied in his email when he said to contact him with questions? He can't be bothered by paying customers?

I give up with them and I'm walking away and staying away. 

 

Just wanted to warn anyone that may be looking at creating and buying a logo with this company.

[Quentin]

9 hours ago, Laura C said:

 

Hi @Quentin, why won't anyone notarize your documents from Legal Zoom? I have thought of doing the same thing, a will and living will, with Legal Zoom but I don't want to waste my time if it won't be legal or legit.

To be perfectly honest, I don't remember the details or the reasons no one in my area would notarize it. I could blame it on the local bar association, but I don't think that was it, so that wouldn't be fair. Legal Zoom was pretty new at that time. So I finally tossed the document and got a lawyer from within the state to write one. The county in Mississippi where I live has grown dramatically in the last three decades as people and businesses continue to move south out of Memphis with its crime and high property taxes. It's not "White Flight". People of all ethnic groups are moving down here to get out of that place. In spite of all the growth and demographic change, the county is still run by four or five old families, but they're gradually losing their grip on things.   

[Quentin]

7 hours ago, Laura C said:

 

Hi @Quentin. Did you end up purchasing that logo from LogoJoy? Have you had any problems with the company or your logo? Just wandering because I recently purchased a logo from them and they are no longer returning my emails nor have they fixed the issue I'm having with properly downloading my logo files. It's really bizarre, never had contact/communication just dropped like that with someone I'm doing business with. Could be my emails are being blocked by their SPAM filter or something. I keep trying to be patient and give them the benefit of the doubt but this has been going on for almost a week. I'm currently in the process of contacting them live chat on their website and then next by phone. It's just very strange.

 

>>> Current Buyer Beware Warning with LogoJoy company <<<

Anyway, just want to let people know, anyone that may be interested in buying a logo with them, that this is happening so they should be Aware. I hope this is just some mix up on their part and that there is an explanation and my issue will be resolved ASAP. I will let you all know what happens. 

No. I haven't had any problems with them. I got everything I promised plus more than I expected. They always answer my messages. The chat method on their website is the best way to contact them. I do know they are a very small company, but I've gotten better service and communication from them than what I've received from some of the big hitters. No buyer's remorse here.