strugglebrother Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Hi, I'm pouring palm wax hot, 205-210 degrees and the wax cools slowly. I flip the candle when surface starts to form to prevent the air pockets. Does anyone know why I still get a tad less crystallization just the top of my candles? And is there anything I can do to prevent it? If I do poke holes instead of flipping and treating the surface with a heat gun it doesn't look good after. Or simply heat gun to even out the tops of the candle the crystallization still gets ugly on top of the candle. Can you heat gun the tops of a palm wax candle and still get a good pattern? If I was to repour wouldn't that ruin the crystallization also? Or do I need to heat gun longer so the wax gets super hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah S Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 That first candle is super tall! Wow! Is that feather palm? I use the Palm 1 from CW, and I do get breaks in the crystalization pattern too. It's not as obvious without the feather pattern though. Why does it happen? Not sure. If I'm venturing a guess, perhaps the migration of the wax after the flip in combination with the cooler air trapped at the opening of the container causes the very top to cool faster than the rest. I think that like wet spots, it probably doesn't bother any one but us. 🤓 I haven't tried the relief holes and repour method, and I definitely get the same ugly surface when using a heat gun, so I don't use it unless the situation is dire. Maybe @Candybee, @Jcandleattic or @bfroberts can give better input, all those ladies have more palm wax experience than I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 Yes, tall and mighty The wax is 5801-A, I buy it from a supplier here in California but I can see Bitter Creek is selling it. They all get the palm wax from the same manufacturer in Malaysia. https://cart.candlesupply.com/5801-A-Pillar-Votive-Granite-Palm-Wax-pr-19991.html Palm 1 from CW is to my knowledge 5401-A, it comes packaged in the same big bags with the item number and Malaysia on them. I have tried Palm 1/5401-A but I think this wax makes a more beautiful pattern 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Crystal formation in palm seems as simple as temp... slow cool = bigger crystals. The top is cooling faster than the bottom very early on after pouring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) It's a heat thing, I believe. The cooling rates of palm candles are often slowed to encourage the development of larger crystalline formations. This can be as simple as wrapping the container in paper towels or other insulating material or as complex as manipulating environmental conditions. I see it all the time with palm wax and wax blends, especially when I slow the cool down; I don't flip them. What causes it... I have a few ideas but my educated guess is that the surface is cooling quicker than the rest of the candle (the surface isn't covered, allowing heat to escape). Incidentally, the only palm candes I've made, that did not show the nearly crystal-less ring, were wider than they were tall (the shorter apothecary jars). They were insulated and made from Peak's old sparkle light palm. Edited September 25, 2018 by Kerven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted September 25, 2018 Author Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) This is just an uneducated guess but maybe I should try and stick a beer cozy on the top of the candle when I pour? I also get a drop in the top surface instead of it being totally flat. I would usually just fix this with the heat gun but I can't in this case. If there isn't a special trick for the heat gun. Or maybe you have to do a repour to get a flat surface? But maybe @Candybee, @Jcandleattic or @bfroberts would have a better idea if they have a great experience? I can't find much about it when googling? Edited September 25, 2018 by strugglebrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1_AJ Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 What they said. Different rates of cooling. I get the same thing with palm pillars, but in reverse, since the mold is inverted (bottom of the mold when pouring is the top of the finished candle). I would strongly recommend letting them cool very slowly to encourage the crystallization process. The way I achieve that is to put the freshly-poured candles into a beverage cooler and let cool all day, or overnight. (Don't ask me how many large coolers I have for candlemaking. LOL) Slow cooling also gives me smoother tops. And using the heat gun destroys the crystal patterns because the tops cool very quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 31 minutes ago, strugglebrother said: This is just an uneducated guess but maybe I should try and stick a beer cozy on the top of the candle when I pour? I also get a drop in the top surface instead of it being totally flat. I would usually just fix this with the heat gun but I can't in this case. If there isn't a special trick for the heat gun. Or maybe you have to do a repour to get a flat surface? But maybe @Candybee, @Jcandleattic or @bfroberts would have a better idea if they have a great experience? I can't find much about it when googling? You won't get a flat surface using a pillar wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Sorry.....I got interrupted before I finished my thought. With a pillar wax, you will get shrinkage. No way around it. You can repour or use the heat gun but both methods usually result in some break in the pattern. It's not a wax for uniformity. I make feather palm pillars and I wish I could get more breaks in pattern. I love how no two candles are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Oooh, I hadn't thought to use a beer cozy to insulate them. It's worth a try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 Beer cozy tried... Can't say I'm a fan of Rams but that's what Target had to offer me today Unfortunately, it didn't make any difference. It's weird that the break is about 1 inch always. I snuck the cozy over it as soon as I poured super hot. Then I flip it so the bottom should actually be warmer but... I don't mind it that much actually, I can live with it. I have emailed Lipidchem in Malaysia, the maker of all these waxes. Let's see if they have any more tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 These palm candles at Wholefoods have a line at the bottom instead and a tiny line at the top. Very even and straight top of the candles. I think these are somehow machine made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Why do you think they are machine made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugglebrother Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 8 hours ago, bfroberts said: Why do you think they are machine made? Maybe not in as by a machine but poured from a machine like the Coogar VIII that times the pour exactly, pushes the wax out at exactly the same temperature and blends the fragrance as it pours. I looked at maybe 10 candles and they looked exactly the same. Maybe they are hung at the top and bottom in a rack completely freestanding and then flipped after a certain time of pouring. Or the line at the top showing that there was a repour at the end. Maybe a plastic fitting was put over the top of it to seal it while it cools down. But then the wick would move as you have to trim it and it would ruin the crystallization on top... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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