Yankee hours

[Dorothy Mantooth]

Apologies if this has been discussed, I couldn't find it in my searches. At Walmart today I noticed they had large Yankee candles. I've only been in the Yankee store one time and I don't own any. The warning sticker says something like 115 hours. Is that because of Palm wax? I know I don't have a great candle yet, but my soys are 15-20 hours. I know my 8oz tin is a lot smaller. I've made some 4630 that lasted 25+. What's realistic with soy 8oz tin with 5oz wax?

[Candybee]

How large a candle? Did you notice the net wt? For it to burn that long and be palm it should be about 22-24 oz. Palm is the fastest burning wax in my experience. I have worked with soy, paraffin, and palm. Soy burns the longest, followed by paraffin, then palm.  Candle applications can vary depending on wick, jar, additives, etc., and of course you can get a candle to burn longer if you work at it. I am speaking in general about the typical burn times I have experienced as a candle maker over the years.

[Dorothy Mantooth]

I looked at a jar online and it’s their classic large jar. 22oz. It says “mottled wax”. I just mentioned palm because I thought that’s what gave the mottled look. Can you achieve that look with soy or parrafin? I haven’t explored any dyes or special waxes like that.   I looked at one jar on amazon and it said “mineral wax”. I’ve never seen that before. 

[TallTayl]

Yankee are paraffin. They blend from silos of liquid paraffin and loads of solid paraffin.

[Candybee]

TT is right. You can find paraffin wax for mottling. I know C&S has it. Don't know who else carries it.

[wthomas57]

21 hours ago, Dorothy Mantooth said:

Apologies if this has been discussed, I couldn't find it in my searches. At Walmart today I noticed they had large Yankee candles. I've only been in the Yankee store one time and I don't own any. The warning sticker says something like 115 hours. Is that because of Palm wax? I know I don't have a great candle yet, but my soys are 15-20 hours. I know my 8oz tin is a lot smaller. I've made some 4630 that lasted 25+. What's realistic with soy 8oz tin with 5oz wax?

Others said the same.. but they use parrafin, not palm. They could very well use an additive to slow down the burn a bit... I know for almost certainty that they use vybar but Id be willing to guess that's not all.

 

And I do feel their burn times are about right. My all parrafins last about the same amount.

My parasoy last a bit longer and my all soys last the longest. However, the strength of the HT also follows the same order.

[GoldieMN]

@Wthomas57 Are you saying your 22 oz. paraffin candle lasts 115 hours but a 22 oz. soy last even longer?  If you make an 11-12 oz. soy, does it last 60 hours?

GoldieMN

 

[wthomas57]

Well you cant really compare apples to apples with different jars. Bigger jars may be double or triple wicked for example, narrower jars keep more heat inside the jar which aids in how quickly wax is melted and used.

 

My large jar does about 100+ hours but I dont have a soy version of that candle so I cant tell you how long it would burn. 

MY parasoy tumblers burn around 50  and are 9oz jars. and soys are about 60 or so.

 

But, keep in mind... I like many others listed either a range of hours or "Up to xxx hours". Its best to list hours based off recommended burning instructions. So that's what I do.

But soy, I cant answer your specific question about 22oz burn time because I dont have one. Burn rates increase as you get lower in the jar so you can't always just assume double the size equals double the burn time. But its a descent place to start

[Clear Black]

54 minutes ago, wthomas57 said:

Well you cant really compare apples to apples with different jars. Bigger jars may be double or triple wicked for example, narrower jars keep more heat inside the jar which aids in how quickly wax is melted and used.

 

My large jar does about 100+ hours but I dont have a soy version of that candle so I cant tell you how long it would burn. 

MY parasoy tumblers burn around 50  and are 9oz jars. and soys are about 60 or so.

 

But, keep in mind... I like many others listed either a range of hours or "Up to xxx hours". Its best to list hours based off recommended burning instructions. So that's what I do.

But soy, I cant answer your specific question about 22oz burn time because I dont have one. Burn rates increase as you get lower in the jar so you can't always just assume double the size equals double the burn time. But its a descent place to start

 

So do you also add vybar to your candles like you suspect YC does? And if so, is it only to give a longer burn time? 

[wthomas57]

I add a little to my large jars which are my mottled parrafin candles. You almost have to with it because straight or mottling waxes do not hold much FO without it.

But no, its purpose for me is nothing to do with slowing down the burn time (would be a cool bonus if its true though). I use it to slightly bump up fragrance binding with straight parrafin (pre-blended waxes do not need it). 

[Jcandleattic]

My 16oz apothecary paraffin candles can last up to about 120+ hours depending on how they are burned. 115 is not an unusual time for a "large" candle. In fact, I would think a 22oz candle would last a lot longer than 115 hours. More like 200+ hours. 

[Flicker]

17 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

Others said the same.. but they use parrafin, not palm. They could very well use an additive to slow down the burn a bit... I know for almost certainty that they use vybar but Id be willing to guess that's not all.

 

And I do feel their burn times are about right. My all parrafins last about the same amount.

My parasoy last a bit longer and my all soys last the longest. However, the strength of the HT also follows the same order.

Vybar inhibits mottle. They likely just use a straight paraffin with no additives other than perhaps mineral oil. Their candles burn very consistent to mine made with IGI 1343 or 2281 with no additives at all.

[Dorothy Mantooth]

thanks everyone.

I'm not disputing anyone's claims, I'm just trying to figure out for myself and what I'm making. All summer I've been working with small tins that hold 5oz and 2.7oz. Most of my longer burns are with paraffin. I've tested a gaggle of wick types/sizes. I'm trying to compare my results per wick size against the manufactures rate of consumption to see where I line up. I know the MFG suggestions don't take into account which type of wax is being used, FO, etc. They don't state what setup they use to get their rate of wax consumption estimates.

 

If I hear a 16oz paraffin lasts 120 hours, then that tells me it's performing at about 7.5 hours per ounce of wax. (120/16=7.5.)

This seems like a pretty slow burning wick. If I knew the maker used zincs, I might guess they used 36-24-24 or 44-20-18, because the zinc chart shows those two sizes burn between .11 and .14 ROC and 1/7.5= .13. 

 

A CD8 chart shows .20 oz/hr, which would be 5 hours per ounce of wax. I'm guessing if I used a CD8 in a 16oz jar I could expect somewhere around 80 hours (5*16=80).

 

In my case, my longest burning candle so far is an 8oz tin (5oz wax) at 25 hours. (candle1: nutmeg ginger FO 10%, NW Elite 200 soy)

It's using an eco8 which ROC chart shows .26  (hotter than CD8). It would be 3.8 hours per ounce of wax. So I should be getting aprox. 19 hours.

I'd suggest if I observe the candle performing well from flame then this is pretty good.

 

I have another 8oz, eco8 with a different fragrance (candle2: tobacco cherry FO10%, NW Elite 200 soy). it lasted 16 hours and my notes said the flame was too big, smoking and eventually the wick snuffed itself out. This one didn't make it to 19 hours with this FO. I mentioned I'm using this spreadsheet where I calculate a ROC after every burn period and then I look across the chart at the set of candles I'm burning and try to see if one is hotter than another based on the manufacturers charts.

 

There is another element that differs between these two candles.  Candle 1 was tested using 3 hour initial burn and then 2 hour periods afterwards. cooling overnight in between)

Candle 2 was tested doing 4 hour burn periods each time and cooling overnight)

I've tested a set of about a dozen doing the 4 hour burn times and I think only three are still alive. They get so hot during 4 hours that the wicks curl over into the wax. On some of them I know I could fish the wick back up straight, but I'm calling it a dud at this point. I'm assuming the consumer might not do that, or forget and then the next day when it's cooled the wick is not recoverable.

 

anyway, it all may be poop, I just think it's interesting to consider.

I'm still not happy with my wick/wax combo and have a bunch of other wicks coming this weekend. I plan on keeping the same charting and hopefully I'll discover something worthwhile to share.

 

 

[wthomas57]

10 minutes ago, Flicker said:

Vybar inhibits mottle. They likely just use a straight paraffin with no additives other than perhaps mineral oil. Their candles burn very consistent to mine made with IGI 1343 or 2281 with no additives at all.

Actually vybar 343 enhances mottling in mottled waxes. That is the vybar they would be using... same as i use.

 

The two vybars that inhibit mottling lime you are referring to are vybar 103 and vybar 260. 

[wthomas57]

@Dorothy Mantooth   Its super hard to compare because there are sooo many variables. FO's can affect burn time, wick type affects burn time, wick size, jar size and style, wax of course, etc.  All things similar though most soys are going to outlast most parrafins simply because soy burns slower. So as a general rule of thumb soy is going to burn longer. But that isn't always going to be true.

9 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

My 16oz apothecary paraffin candles can last up to about 120+ hours depending on how they are burned. 115 is not an unusual time for a "large" candle. In fact, I would think a 22oz candle would last a lot longer than 115 hours. More like 200+ hours. 

 

It also depends if you are single wicking or double wicking and fragrance load. But you are right.. Iv had my large apothecarys go over 200 hours before. I always assume thought that customers will not burn exactly like they should so I estimate lower than that... especially for conversational purposes.

[TallTayl]

Tins definitely burn different from glass jars. Comparing burn times between the two is comparing apples and coconuts. Plus, eco8 in an 8 oz tin can be very large IME in my soy wax blends. From the 5.1 oz noted above I am guessing you are using a 6 oz tin?

 

I would wick down a size or two (possibly three) and compare. A wick that snuffs itself out, I have found, is one that is too large, causing the melt pool to get warm enough to melt the priming wax on the wick. That causes the wick to slump/sag giving the appearance that it is too small instead of being much too big. 

 

 I only use eco in one scent that is otherwise impossible to burn.  

 

[Flicker]

22 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

Actually vybar 343 enhances mottling in mottled waxes. That is the vybar they would be using... same as i use.

 

The two vybars that inhibit mottling lime you are referring to are vybar 103 and vybar 260. 

But Yankee's candles have not changed one bit in the past 25 years, and that only came out about five years ago max. 343 really doesn't enhance mottle but it usually doesn't disturb it. I have used that and it can still decrease the effect. My suspicion is that they have never used any additives in their candles.

[Dorothy Mantooth]

3 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Tins definitely burn different from glass jars. Comparing burn times between the two is comparing apples and coconuts. Plus, eco8 in an 8 oz tin can be very large IME in my soy wax blends. From the 5.1 oz noted above I am guessing you are using a 6 oz tin?

 

I would wick down a size or two (possibly three) and compare. A wick that snuffs itself out, I have found, is one that is too large, causing the melt pool to get warm enough to melt the priming wax on the wick. That causes the wick to slump/sag giving the appearance that it is too small instead of being much too big. 

 

 I only use eco in one scent that is otherwise impossible to burn.  

 

 

Thanks for TallTayl.

I wasn't meaning to compare jars to tins, but apples and coconuts sounds like an interesting mix for FO.

 

Originally I was wondering what is realistic in a 8oz tin that holds 5oz of soy. I know there are a ton of variables, but if I have eight people say they get 60 hours and my burn times during testing are in the 20hr range then I'm either doing something wrong, or I need to be a good marketeer to sell mine.

 

When I saw that Yankee candle my jaw dropped, and when Jcandleattic says 200+ for her large candles, I didn't have any more jaw left to drop.

It did help to post here and find that large candles really do last that long. ..and not compare my small tins to a large jar.

 

You use C3? I've been using C3's ugly cousin, elite 200. They are made by the same mfg, so I'm guessing they are at least more similar to me trying to compare elite 200 to others like 464.

I choose the elite 200 because I thought my tops looked weird on C3 and filmores description of elite 200 says "It goes beyond the C-Series waxes by allowing for even higher fragrance loads without syneresis. ... No fat bloom upon cooling, burning, or hot/cold testing. "

 

With a strong fo at 10%, what wick do you use in 8oz tin?  So far eco 6 has been the winner more than others, but I'm not a fan of eco. I end up breaking off the wick during trimming and that would frustrate me as a consumer. And for a 5oz tin, I'm getting best results from eco1.

 

honestly, I just want to make a good candle.

my intentions in this pursuit is to raise money for charities by selling candles.

So far, I would have been better off giving $1,000 directly to our food pantry.

 

I truly appreciate everyone's comments and willingness to share knowledge.

[TallTayl]

I had to blend C3 with 415 this year to get a half way decent burn. I use 6.1 oz of wax and 6-8% FO load per tin. I can get upwards of 40 hours when wicked and burned text book style using a cd12 or cd16 depending on the fragrance. I am not in love with the cd series like I used to be when C3 performed better, and have begun testing of RRD 40 and RRD 47 in the same tins and fragrances. 

[Dorothy Mantooth]

6 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I had to blend C3 with 415 this year to get a half way decent burn. I use 6.1 oz of wax and 6-8% FO load per tin. I can get upwards of 40 hours when wicked and burned text book style using a cd12 or cd16 depending on the fragrance. I am not in love with the cd series like I used to be when C3 performed better, and have begun testing of RRD 40 and RRD 47 in the same tins and fragrances. 

 

do you burn 4 hour periods until the end? have you tested the elite 200 or the S-113? I've got RRD coming this week to test.

[TallTayl]

Yes 3-4 hr burns. 

 

Then a power burn. 

 

No, sorry I have never tried those waxes.